Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 19.02.2020, 21:47
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
5g is officially suspended
You might want to read the topic instead of posting such nonsense.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 20.02.2020, 10:51
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

12.02.2020 - this is what happened. Cantons are responsible for antenna permits. Cantonal authorities complained that the final rules for permits are still not published by Swiss Office for the Environment (OFEV/BAFU), thus there's the possibility that some permits authorized today don't comply the final rules and therefore need to be canceled later. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/cantons...arity/45554036

12.02.2020 - This is what a bad journalist at the FT thought that happened: 5G ban!!! https://www.ft.com/content/848c5b44-...0-43d18ec715f5

13.02.2020 -This is a good journalist should do: do not rely only on news agency services and also ask the Swiss OFEV/BAFU for clarifications: no 5G ban. https://www.mobileworldlive.com/feat...g-5g-rollouts/

31.01.2020This is the original letter from the Swiss OFEV/BAFU to cantonal authorities. it contains some criteria on how to assess the approval of install of 5G antennas and contains the sentence that caused all the mess "En tenant compte de ces recommendations, nous estimons que des décisions concernant les antennes adaptatives et stations 5G peuvent étre justifiées de maniére solide juridiquement". https://www.bafu.admin.ch/dam/bafu/f..._5G_2020_f.pdf

The whole story can be summarized as some engineers at BAFU writing as engineers (overestimation, we have a security factor, etc) and cantonal lawyers demanding a better phrasing that really ensures they don't get in the mess of authorizing with today's rules and having to cancel a permit in 6 months because rules changed.

The internet is great, there's not need ever to read or link infowars, ever
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 20.02.2020, 11:21
Don Molina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 902
Groaned at 38 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 1,327 Times in 560 Posts
Don Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

I can appreciate that people like omtatsat don't really like doing actual research, and instead are contend with reading "something on the internet", so I'll keep it simple:

radiation interacts with something based on the something's size and the radiation's wave length.

Ionising radiation is clearly harmful, everybody knows that. No consumer electronics produce such radiation.

Non-ionising radiation can be split in 3 categories:
1. visible light which can blind you, because you know - visible freaking light. Think lasers in eyes
2. radiation with lower frequency (longer wavelenghts) that just goes through the body and does not interact with it.
3. radiation with higher frequency (shorter wavelengths) that can interact with our bodies, but all they do is heat it up. Consumer electronics produce radiation of minimal power, phones getting hot for example is mostly coming because the circuitry and the battery gets hot. No phone gets hot from its radiation, because the power is quite small.


Of course screw all that, make a generic "you don't know in 5234 years someone can see that this is an absolute bane", say your phone gets hot (without understanding what gets hot and why), and then scream because you don't want an antenna.

People suck and they don't deserve technology or progress...
__________________
Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Don Molina for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 20.02.2020, 11:28
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,975
Groaned at 2,037 Times in 1,121 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

They have to bring in a 5G tax. Its just as damaging as CO2. Tax the people who make the antennas and the Mobile companies that use it and the Mobile users that use 5 G on their phone. It will soon be safer to live in Chenobyl rather tha in Swiss cities!!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users groan at omtatsat for this post:
  #25  
Old 20.02.2020, 11:34
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 4,842
Groaned at 243 Times in 177 Posts
Thanked 6,565 Times in 3,096 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
1. visible light which can blind you, because you know - visible freaking light. Think lasers in eyes
Lasers in eyes can be a very good thing !
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 20.02.2020, 11:43
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,975
Groaned at 2,037 Times in 1,121 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
I can appreciate that people like omtatsat don't really like doing actual research, and instead are contend with reading "something on the internet", so I'll keep it simple:

radiation interacts with something based on the something's size and the radiation's wave length.

Ionising radiation is clearly harmful, everybody knows that. No consumer electronics produce such radiation.

Non-ionising radiation can be split in 3 categories:
1. visible light which can blind you, because you know - visible freaking light. Think lasers in eyes
2. radiation with lower frequency (longer wavelenghts) that just goes through the body and does not interact with it.
3. radiation with higher frequency (shorter wavelengths) that can interact with our bodies, but all they do is heat it up. Consumer electronics produce radiation of minimal power, phones getting hot for example is mostly coming because the circuitry and the battery gets hot. No phone gets hot from its radiation, because the power is quite small.


Of course screw all that, make a generic "you don't know in 5234 years someone can see that this is an absolute bane", say your phone gets hot (without understanding what gets hot and why), and then scream because you don't want an antenna.

People suck and they don't deserve technology or progress...
No. Technocrats suck.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at omtatsat for this post:
  #27  
Old 28.05.2020, 11:50
grumpygrapefruit's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NL, UK & sometimes ZH
Posts: 6,366
Groaned at 38 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 17,361 Times in 4,463 Posts
grumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

If you are worried about the health problems associated with 5G, you need one of the shields. Only £339.00

Quote:
Through a process of quantum oscillation, the 5GBioShield USB key balances and re-harmonises the disturbing frequencies arising from the electric fog induced by devices, such as laptops, cordless phones, wi-fi, tablets, et cetera,
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52810220
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank grumpygrapefruit for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 28.05.2020, 12:15
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

No, quartz crystals hanging from your neck are better. They're natural.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 28.05.2020, 12:21
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,231
Groaned at 392 Times in 269 Posts
Thanked 19,901 Times in 10,369 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
=)
I have this Hebdo issue, it is interesting, pedagogically. But quite dated now. It seems that all kids and parents had to smarten up past 2 months in terms of digital literacy, even if they did not want to. The positive aspect of remote learning.

It is kinda funny you dug out Hebdo. No more Hebdo, it is gone.

Last edited by MusicChick; 28.05.2020 at 12:37.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 28.05.2020, 12:22
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,607
Groaned at 206 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 14,406 Times in 7,447 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
That explains the angst-ridden article I read recently about how children sleep with their phones next to the bed. Give them 8 years and they're hard boiled.
Quote:
View Post
If you are worried about the health problems associated with 5G, you need one of the shields. Only £339.00



https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52810220
You should go for the special offer. According to the last bit of the article, the placebo effect is pretty amazing after all.

What I wonder: If you diffuse the effect of 5g - can you still use the phone?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 28.05.2020, 13:14
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,099
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,950 Times in 764 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
The same with 5G. It will really cause alot of damage!
What type of damage do you think it will cause?

I never worked in telecoms, but as an individual with a degree in physics I can explain to you the technical difference between the 4G signal and the 5G signal. There are thousands of studies focusing on the interaction between EMF and animals/people. In the EMF-Portal (from the University of Aachen) you can find over 30'000 independent studies on the effects of electromagnetic fields. There are 139 studies about 5G there.

Not a single study has found any evidence at all that there are harmful (or otherwise) effects on the exposure of humans to low-level electromagnetic radiation, as is the case with 3G, 4G or 5G.

All plans for deployment of 5G networks calculate that EVEN if legacy networks aren't dismantled, the cumulative exposure to RF is a FRACTION of the internationally agreed exposure limits.

So my question again is: what "alot of damage" do you have in mind?
__________________
HEAVEN IS A BATHTUB WITH BOOKS THAT DON'T GET WET
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Caleb for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 28.05.2020, 14:34
Th3Alchemist's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: ZG & GR
Posts: 672
Groaned at 4 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 914 Times in 343 Posts
Th3Alchemist has a reputation beyond reputeTh3Alchemist has a reputation beyond reputeTh3Alchemist has a reputation beyond reputeTh3Alchemist has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Some people claim 5G is harmful becuase of the higher frequency it uses.

4G can reach 6 GHz while 5G can reach 300 GHz. If you're scared of those high frequencies too, better stay in a dark room since visible light reaches over 600THz... (ye... teraherz)
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Th3Alchemist for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 28.05.2020, 18:37
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,235
Groaned at 216 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 19,313 Times in 7,856 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Where I live we've had 5G for a year. There has - and I can prove this - been an increase in the number of Covid-19 cases in the community. A huge increase. Statistically significant, beyond doubt.

But I think the cause is most likely to be that the designated plague hospital for our canton is in our community.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 28.05.2020, 21:20
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,099
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,950 Times in 764 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
Where I live we've had 5G for a year. There has - and I can prove this - been an increase in the number of Covid-19 cases in the community. A huge increase. Statistically significant, beyond doubt.

But I think the cause is most likely to be that the designated plague hospital for our canton is in our community.
I am 100% sure that there was an increase in the number of COVID-19 cases in every community. But if the fact that yours was the designated hospital in your canton wasn't related to an over-proportional number of cases per capita (which sounds plausible), remember that correlation doesn't mean causation. I'm sure that there was either an increase or a decrease of births, an increase or decrease in bald men tripping on the sidewalk, etc, and that also wasn't caused or influenced by the number of installed antennas. Worthy of saying: there are 5G antennas all over Switzerland. Over 2200 of them as of April.
__________________
HEAVEN IS A BATHTUB WITH BOOKS THAT DON'T GET WET
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 28.05.2020, 21:32
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
I have this Hebdo issue, it is interesting, pedagogically. But quite dated now. It seems that all kids and parents had to smarten up past 2 months in terms of digital literacy, even if they did not want to. The positive aspect of remote learning.

It is kinda funny you dug out Hebdo. No more Hebdo, it is gone.
I have that Hebdo copy in my current office. Once I was riding my bike, stopped at a traffic light next to a kiosk, turned my head and saw that painfully wrong line of code. I was triggered as when people put lime in beer or overcook barbecue.....I bought it. Then I read the articles found the story about how children are trained to use Microsoft, Apple or Android products without ever knowing what happens behind the graphical interfaces. The cover has a damned good choice of words: numerical illiteracy.

Every time my local (Suisse Romande) colleagues at the university complained about software they didn't write themselves I just pointed at the magazine in a corner of my office From time to time I still encounter colleagues and clients that say the code is wrong without knowing what the code does in first place. I'd bet this is the same kind of people that complains about 5G

I don't think the last 2 months had any effect on numerical literacy. It's being curious about what programs do, wonder what the people that coded them where thinking, how it's possible to automatize incredibly complex tasks with a few simple generic components.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 28.05.2020, 22:35
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 23
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 35 Times in 13 Posts
autopoiesis is considered knowledgeableautopoiesis is considered knowledgeableautopoiesis is considered knowledgeable
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

US Navy attempted to persuade FCC to limit some of the frequencies being auctioned for 5G. As US Navy Captain Marc Eckardt wrote:



TOPIC: Operational impacts from potential loss of NOAA/NASA METOC satellite data resulting from the FCC spectrum auction for 5G


EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
  • Remotely sensed observations (water vapor) may be degraded or lost due to growing interference from the broader adoption of 5G; specifically, in the 24 GHz bands.
  • Naval operations will continue but with a probable degradation of weather and ocean models,resulting in increased risk in Safety of Flight and Safety of Navigation, and degraded Battlespace Awareness for tactical / operational advantage.

Source, US Senate: https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/med...%20Impacts.pdf


National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA also contested the sell-off. NB: The bands around 24GHz contain some of water's telltale emission spectrum, hence the importance for detection and modelling. Having millions of cheap (non-directional) emitters scattered across the globe would lead to an environment from which accurate readings would be hard to obtain against the increased background noise.

“This would degrade the forecast skill by up to 30%,” Jacobs [of the NOAA] said. “If you look back in time to see when our forecast skill was roughly 30% less than it is today, it’s somewhere around 1980. This would result in the reduction of hurricane track forecasts’ lead time by roughly two to three days.”


Source: https://physicstoday.scitation.org/d...0190524a/full/

Now, I don't have a lot to say about the OP's question of CH-specific paranoia, or potential biological effects, but it strikes me as rather cavalier of the FCC to ignore the concerns of the NOAA, NASA and the US Navy.



IMHO tracking atmospheric water is somewhat more important than receiving Instagram updates 6 milliseconds earlier.


Cheers,
auto


PS my sources are a little better than infowars, too.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 29.05.2020, 08:20
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,283
Groaned at 146 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 9,182 Times in 3,480 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Have to chip in here. My first "handy" was a Siemens C4 "C-net" brick sized phone with a finger thick antenna and a 20 minute battery life.
Now that thing could cook you, a few minutes talking on that bugger and you felt it.
But waddya know, I´m still here with brain undamaged... As far as I know.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 29.05.2020, 08:40
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,975
Groaned at 2,037 Times in 1,121 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
Have to chip in here. My first "handy" was a Siemens C4 "C-net" brick sized phone with a finger thick antenna and a 20 minute battery life.
Now that thing could cook you, a few minutes talking on that bugger and you felt it.
But waddya know, I´m still here with brain undamaged... As far as I know.
The damage shows in later years
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 29.05.2020, 11:11
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,607
Groaned at 206 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 14,406 Times in 7,447 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
Have to chip in here. My first "handy" was a Siemens C4 "C-net" brick sized phone with a finger thick antenna and a 20 minute battery life.
Now that thing could cook you, a few minutes talking on that bugger and you felt it.
But waddya know, I´m still here with brain undamaged... As far as I know.
Quote:
View Post
The damage shows in later years
Now is later years.
This reminds me of the ophthalmic surgeon who told me: "Everybody gets cataract, most people just don't get old enough to notice it".

I remember those, slammer. They were a phone and a self defence weapon in one and yes, they got bloody hot.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 29.05.2020, 12:47
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5g and Swiss paranoia, or is it?

Quote:
View Post
Now is later years.
This reminds me of the ophthalmic surgeon who told me: "Everybody gets cataract, most people just don't get old enough to notice it".

I remember those, slammer. They were a phone and a self defence weapon in one and yes, they got bloody hot.

My parents do that joke with arthritis It sucks, but it means you had a long life.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
five g, tech paranoia.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can Swiss Employer Legally Send Swiss Employee to Danger Area For Work higgybaby Employment 22 13.02.2019 18:15
Swiss Germans vs Swiss French vs Swiss Italians? seekingserendipity Daily life 24 02.06.2014 10:23
Swiss real estate price trends from the Swiss National Bank Swissmountainair Housing in general 0 23.03.2010 11:34
Swiss German, Swiss Italian, Swiss French? yuhu Language corner 34 05.05.2009 13:48
Story on paranoia about child safety in the UK Guest International affairs/politics 3 05.06.2007 09:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0