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Old 09.02.2020, 08:56
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Here's where they are poisoning you!

With pesticide in the drinking water. 27 times the limit. And they tried to keep it hidden! But now its out.

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/sonntag...story/12622481
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Old 09.02.2020, 09:17
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

Very interesting but I can't get the arcticle.
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Old 09.02.2020, 10:34
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

Freaking paywall.
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Old 09.02.2020, 10:36
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

Paywall? It opens normally for me. In German obviously:

Das Bundesamt für Umwelt liess in 31 Gemeinden zwischen Genf und Bodensee die Konzentration von Chlorothalonil-Rückständen im Grundwasser messen. An 20 Standorten lagen die Messwerte eines Chlorothalonil-Abbauproduktes über dem seit Januar geltenden Grenzwert, zum Teil massiv. Doch das Bundesamt hielt die Daten zu den einzelnen Messstellen bis jetzt unter Verschluss. Mehrere Anfragen im Dezember und im Januar wimmelte die Umweltbehörde ab. Die Bevölkerung sollte nicht erfahren, in welchen Gemeinden die Grenzwerte um wie viel überschritten werden.

Erst auf Druck eines Gesuches gemäss Öffentlichkeitsrecht gibt das Amt die Daten nun frei. Das Amt betont, dass es sich um Grundwasser- und nicht um Trinkwassermessungen handelt. Zudem werde das Wasser aus mehreren Quellen oft gemischt. So könnten zu hohe Pestizidwerte einer Quelle manchmal korrigiert werden. In aller Regel ist das Grundwasser aber Basis für das Trinkwasser.

In Fischbach weiss man nichts von hohen Pestizidwerten

Die Daten führen Brisantes zutage. Erstens erstrecken sich die verseuchten Gebiete über das gesamte Mittelland. Zweitens wurden Gemeinden ungenügend informiert. So zeigt die Tabelle der Bundesbehörden, dass die Werte des Chlorothalonil-Rückstandes R471811 in der Luzerner Gemeinde Fischbach den Grenzwert um das 12-Fache überschreitet. Die Messungen stammen aus dem Jahr 2017, ausgewertet wurden sie letztes Jahr durch das Wasserforschungsinstitut Eawag. Die Forscher hielten in ihrer Analyse fest, dass die Messwerte dieses Stoffes besonders besorgniserregend seien, weil er sich nur langsam abbaue und seine Gesundheitsgefährdung kaum erforscht sei.

Die verheerenden Messwerte des Umweltamtes sind aber nie bis zu den Gemeindebehörden von Fischbach gelangt. Der für das Trinkwasser zuständige Gemeinderat Ivo Häfliger sagt: «Dass das Bundesamt für Umwelt in unserer Gemeinde so hohe Konzentrationen von Chlorothalonil-Abbauprodukten gemessen hat, erstaunt mich sehr.» Und: «Ich bin überrascht, dass der Bund uns das nicht mitgeteilt hat.»

In Fischbach ist man bis jetzt immer davon ausgegangen, dass das Trinkwasser tadellos ist: «Wir hatten bis jetzt nie Probleme mit Pestizidrückständen im Wasser», sagt Häfliger. Die Konzentrationen seien unter den Grenzwerten gelegen. Bei einer Messung im Juli letzten Jahres sei auch die Chlorothalonilkonzentration unter dem erlaubten Grenzwert gewesen.



Das ist nur scheinbar ein Widerspruch zu den Messungen des Bundes. Denn für das von den Bundesbehörden gemessene Chlorothalonil-Abbauprodukt R471811 gab es im Juli letzten Jahres noch keinen Grenzwert, deshalb wurde er auch nicht beanstandet.

Ebenfalls nicht informiert wurde die Gemeinde Vully-les-Lacs VD zwischen dem Neuenburger und dem Murtensee. Dabei liegt in dieser Gemeinde mit der Grundwasserfassung Montmagny die Chlorothalonil-Hölle der Schweiz. Die Forscher der Eawag haben dort eine Konzentration des Schadstoffes gemessen, der den erlaubten Grenzwert um das 27-Fache übersteigt. «Wir haben nie etwas von einer solchen Messung gehört», sagt auch Blaise Clerc, Gemeindepräsident von Vully-les-Lacs, auf Anfrage.

Immerhin hat man in dieser Gemeinde Glück im Unglück. Vor einigen Jahren mussten die Gemeindebehörden die Quelle von Montmagny wegen anderer Schadstoffe bereits stilllegen. Danach hat die Gemeinde Vully-les-Lacs die Wasserversorgung umgebaut und bezieht jetzt ihr Trinkwasser gänzlich aus dem Neuenburgersee.

«Die Leute haben ein Recht, informiert zu werden»

Zu den am stärksten belasteten Ortschaften zählt die Zürcher Gemeinde Trüllikon. Die Konzentration des Chlorothalonil-Abbauprodukts R471811 übersteigt dort den neu geltenden Grenzwert um das 18-Fache. Die Trüllikoner erfuhren bereits letztes Jahr, dass ihre Gemeinde ein Pestizidproblem hat. Wegen eines anderen Stoffes mussten sie deshalb im September eine ihrer drei Quellen schliessen.

Doch nun kommt es noch schlimmer für Trüllikon: Weil nun auch für das Chlorothalonil-Abbauprodukt R471811 ein tiefer Grenzwert gilt, «können wir die Quelle wohl sehr lange nicht mehr brauchen», sagt der zuständige Gemeinderat Manuel Frei. Die Überschreitung sei so gross, dass «es sich nicht lohnt, das kontaminierte Wasser mit sauberem Wasser aus anderen Quellen zu mischen», sagt Frei. Immerhin war Frei informiert über die Messwerte des Bundes.

Das Chlorothalonil-Abbauprodukt R471811 hält derzeit Gemeindebehörden und Trinkwasserversorgungen in der ganzen Schweiz auf Trab. Im Dezember hat der Bund Chlorothalonil als Pestizid verboten. Durch das Verbot wurden automatisch alle Abbauprodukte, die sogenannten Metaboliten des Pestizids, einem tiefen Grenzwert von 0,1 Mikrogramm pro Liter Wasser unterstellt. Betroffene Gemeinden müssen dafür sorgen, dass sie innert nützlicher Frist sauberes Wasser liefern können.

Allerdings weiss man in vielen Gemeinden noch gar nicht, ob das Wasser zu viel von dem Chlorothalonil-Abbauprodukt enthält. Deshalb führen Gemeinden und Kantone nun unter Zeitdruck Messungen durch. Diese Woche hat die «Berner Zeitung» publik gemacht, dass mittlerweile bereits bei 36 Berner Gemeinden feststeht, dass der neu geltende Grenzwert überschritten wird.

Nicht nur die Bundesbehörden tun sich schwer mit der Veröffentlichung von Daten zur Wasserqualität. Auch viele Kantonsbehörden würden die schlechten Nachrichten lieber unter Verschluss halten. Die Berner Behörden haben die Informationen zu ihrer Wasserqualität auch erst auf Druck der Journalisten freigegeben.

Immer noch keine Auskunft erteilen wollen die Aargauer Behörden. Das ruft Kritiker aus den Gemeinden auf den Plan. So sagt Hanspeter Flückiger, Gemeindeammann in einem anderen Fischbach, jenem im Kanton Aargau: «Die Behörden des Kantons Aargau halten die Informationen zu den Pestizidkonzentrationen unter Verschluss.» Das sei unverantwortlich. «Die Leute haben ein Recht, informiert zu werden, ob ihr Wasser gesundheitsschädlich ist oder nicht», sagt Flückiger.
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Old 09.02.2020, 10:52
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

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Very interesting but I can't get the arcticle.
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Freaking paywall.
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Paywall? It opens normally for me.
Me too. I note that my adblocker (uBlock Origin, in Firefox) is stopping a lot (22 items), and wonder if their paywall is poorly enough implemented to be bypassed by that. Google translate doesn't want to open it, but here's the text done manually
https://translate.google.com/#view=h...den%20und%20Ka

https://translate.google.com/#view=h...Fl%C3%BCckiger.

Last edited by Guest; 09.02.2020 at 11:07. Reason: Better translate options
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Old 09.02.2020, 10:57
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

Article is a bit alarmist. Admittedly my German is not as fluent as I want it to be, but I didn't really see what that actually means. They have "contamination" everywhere and how uninformed citizens are, but what is the impact to human health? I am genuinely asking, I don't generally believe the alarmist Greenpeace style of screaming so not really sure how to react.
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Old 09.02.2020, 11:11
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

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Article is a bit alarmist. Admittedly my German is not as fluent as I want it to be, but I didn't really see what that actually means. They have "contamination" everywhere and how uninformed citizens are, but what is the impact to human health? I am genuinely asking, I don't generally believe the alarmist Greenpeace style of screaming so not really sure how to react.
To be fair, the article is really only addressing the theory that various authorities have tried to keep their findings from the public, not even attempting to suggest what danger is or is not indicated by them.
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Old 09.02.2020, 11:17
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

That is of course the other side of intensive farming. It´s also one of the chemicals thought responsible for the decline of insects, especially bees.
If the Europe wide ban is effective we should see an increase of insects in the next years.
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Old 09.02.2020, 11:22
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

Thanks roegner, TA is behind a paywall for me too.

omtatsat, this has been all over the news for months now, TA is one of the last to report on it. Apparently it's caused by a pesticide the farmers use and is already illegal in the EU but here they ponder whether to follow this rule. Guess the public will help taking that decision now.

The annoying thing is that the communities don't inform their residents about their specific situation. Also I did not hear anywhere, whether cooking the water sorts the problem for the moment.
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Old 09.02.2020, 11:22
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

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Article is a bit alarmist. Admittedly my German is not as fluent as I want it to be, but I didn't really see what that actually means. They have "contamination" everywhere and how uninformed citizens are, but what is the impact to human health? I am genuinely asking, I don't generally believe the alarmist Greenpeace style of screaming so not really sure how to react.
The article says the new ban puts the limit at 0.1 micrograms per liter of water. The "worst" municipality is 27 times that, so 2.7 micrograms per liter?

I'm not a chemistry expert, but from reading the article and combining it with this, it seems the limits are set quite low, well below what could be harmful to a rat, much less a human?
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Old 09.02.2020, 12:03
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

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That is of course the other side of intensive farming. It´s also one of the chemicals thought responsible for the decline of insects, especially bees.
If the Europe wide ban is effective we should see an increase of insects in the next years.
Neonics were touted as the killer of bees and were banned years ago in EU. Bees continue to die, apparently. Obviously, alarmist style legislation creates more problems than it solves. I am in general very pro science and pro development and when I see hippie style backlash by young, rich, pampered Western kids wearing Che Guevara shirts my instinct is to immediately distrust and double-check their position.
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Old 09.02.2020, 12:48
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

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Neonics were touted as the killer of bees and were banned years ago in EU. Bees continue to die, apparently. Obviously, alarmist style legislation creates more problems than it solves. I am in general very pro science and pro development and when I see hippie style backlash by young, rich, pampered Western kids wearing Che Guevara shirts my instinct is to immediately distrust and double-check their position.
In that case it would seem that Neonics are not the only culprit.
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Old 09.02.2020, 13:04
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

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To be fair, the article is really only addressing the theory that various authorities have tried to keep their findings from the public, not even attempting to suggest what danger is or is not indicated by them.
Agreed. Although the "only" is not quite appropriate in a country where transparency is in high demand.

On the other hand, it is not true that the government did not inform. Seems the media didn't and they didn't check admin.ch, which mentioned the problem on their site on August 15th, 2019 and published a fact sheet as well. And those were the results of studies from 2007 bis 2016!
Unfortunately it is not available in English.

The media's outcry is an echo of admin.ch's informations.
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Old 09.02.2020, 13:09
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

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In that case it would seem that Neonics are not the only culprit.
I don't know. Do you know how much the neonics were contributing to bee deaths? The rate of death hasn't decreased, yet neonics are now out and they were singled out by the EU Commission as the sole reason and hence banned. EU Commission and various media made a huge story about bad companies killing innocent bees, which played so well into the hands of uneducated hipsters putting societal pressure. Apparently this legislation was pre-mature and flawed. I am now wary of such attempts to massage the public in attempts to prepare it for another ban by baptising one thing or another as deadly with no scientific proof.
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Old 09.02.2020, 17:31
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

get informed!

https://www.pan-uk.org/health-effects-of-pesticides/
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Old 09.02.2020, 17:54
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

This is precisely the biased, non-science based lobbying that I was referring to. This is one extreme, the other is going to the website of Monsanto and believing them blindly why we should use only synthetic chemicals and nothing else. Thanks, extreme views are almost never the right one, particularly when we talk about our food.
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Old 10.02.2020, 11:09
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

Well..."Das Amt betont, dass es sich um Grundwasser- und nicht um Trinkwassermessungen handelt."

There are lots of polluted places eveywhere, but drinking water is not sourced from there.

The article mentions Vully-les-Lacs (VD), yes the groundwater in that source is the most polluted in the sampling campaign, and yes the supply from this site was stopped years ago due to other pollutants in water. So, it's only monitoring an abandoned source.

In the end, it's cool that people worries about groundwater pollution, even if the article is a bit alarmist, it's overall good that a journalist brought attention to the topic. Transparency of government data is more important that writing style.
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Old 10.02.2020, 12:34
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

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There are lots of polluted places eveywhere, but drinking water is not sourced from there.
What about the lakes?
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Old 10.02.2020, 15:02
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Re: Here's where they are poisoning you!

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Well..."Das Amt betont, dass es sich um Grundwasser- und nicht um Trinkwassermessungen handelt."

There are lots of polluted places eveywhere, but drinking water is not sourced from there.

The article mentions Vully-les-Lacs (VD), yes the groundwater in that source is the most polluted in the sampling campaign, and yes the supply from this site was stopped years ago due to other pollutants in water. So, it's only monitoring an abandoned source.

In the end, it's cool that people worries about groundwater pollution, even if the article is a bit alarmist, it's overall good that a journalist brought attention to the topic. Transparency of government data is more important that writing style.


https://www.energie-umwelt.ch/haus/t...er/trinkwasser

"The drinking water in Switzerland comes mainly from springs (40%), groundwater (40%) and lakes (20%). The inhabitants consume the volume of a cube with a side length of 1 kilometer each year. This corresponds to 2% of the precipitation that falls on our land as rain or snow. Around 3,000 private and public companies are responsible for the distribution of drinking water under the supervision of the cantons."
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