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  #181  
Old 12.02.2020, 16:45
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

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  #182  
Old 12.02.2020, 16:49
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Not Everybody, just those looking for a hidden meaning or something to jump on



Now we're back to the language style and sentence construction


Are we not actually all in general agreement in this thread, for once? Let's drop the semantics?
Yes we all appear to be in agreement.

Yes, some posters write ambiguously, either intentionally or unintentionally. And if something is not entirely clear then it is obviously open to interpretation.

I find it interesting: we've all had to interpret the "contentious" post but it seems that only some are deemed valid. Weird.
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  #183  
Old 12.02.2020, 16:53
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Possibly private means simply that.. Private, none of our business, why do we need to know, why do they need to tell us?

Should it be a conversation starter? Would you treat somebody differently one way or the other?

I tend to know the orientation of close friends but people around me on the train, somebody near me in the office, the lady at the bus stop I chat to in the morning.. I have no idea and feel no need to ask, it's their business. I treat all of these people as equal, without having the need to check.


Which takes me back to my daughter's original incident. Her girlfriend and her were simply holding hand, like straight couples do, like even friends do (mainly females), like straight men do in some cultures...but because of some swine's homophobia, they were picked out from the crowd. If holding hands amounts to wearing a yellow star, then yes, I am glad legislation is put in place.
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  #184  
Old 12.02.2020, 16:56
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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I don't know anyone who doesn't hope for that, to be honest. But I also know people who don't feel like showing their affection openly just to justify the need for a law.
The inequality is unjust. If a law is needed so be it. Over the half the Swiss population thought so and for that reason, your views are outvoted and outdated. Get with it perhaps?

My example was, well, a simple example. A straight couple holding hands is pretty harmless to the couple but a gay couple (or a non-gay same-sex couple) holding hands could lead to all sorts of abuse.

If you think that holding hands is too much open-affection - well- I can't really say much more, can I?


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Where we are, a small community, people are supported. It is a good vibe.
You do realise that people aren't getting verbally abused and beaten up by their own friends?
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  #185  
Old 12.02.2020, 16:57
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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I can sympathize with that, like, they don't want their love "instrumentalized" for politics.

(Propably badly worded, I tried for 10min and am happy to clarify if needed)
Yes!

You worded it just as I understand it. I am just waiting for you to tell me that you don't speak English, as so many of my local friends (fluent in English).

I kinda feel this local antipathy to be perceived and interpreted through a prism. And I completely relate, categories are dumb, they change fast or our willingness to be interpreted through them. Hence my friends here are not owning up to many things - churches, hobbies, interests, orientations, even jobs or cultures..they are private. I do not think at all that it would be because of intolerance. More of having a control over how people see us. It is a bit anti cliché? On the other hand opinions are direct and genuine. I also like that, it is courageous and sometimes pita. Don't want to excuse, McTavge, those aggressive idiots acting uncivilly towards your daughter. But you know that.
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  #186  
Old 12.02.2020, 16:58
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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This.

I get that a person's - any person's - sexuality is noone else's damn business. What bothers me, and perhaps this is where the potential ambiguity lies as I see it, are the "private and discreet " folk private and discreet out because they choose to be or because that, really, is the only option available given the societal set up?

Again, anecdotal, but i have friends who are far more themselves, truly, in some places than in others.
And I read this as you are upset that some people's choices don't allow you to feel good about their sexual identity because you just can't quite make it out...

"Hi. Are you acting straight because you really are or because you are afraid to come out? Cuz i'm only OK with one of those." That's a cocktail party opener for sure.

I would have stopped after the first sentence.

Don't care. Don't wanna know if you don't want to tell. Still don't care if you do.

Am I part of the problem? Some on this thread would say yes - apathy is not OK and perpetuates the discrimination. Guess I'm just not woke enough to fight all the social injustice. Too busy saving the whales.

(on FB)
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  #187  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:04
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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I don't know anyone who doesn't hope for that, to be honest. But I also know people who don't feel like showing their affection openly just to justify the need for a law. Where we are, a small community, people are supported. It is a good vibe.
But that’s just it isn’t it?

Nobody is saying that they have to openly show their affection for each other in public if they choose not to but those that do shouldn’t be castigated for it.
Whether they choose to be discreet is their choice but the sort of thing that happened to McTAVGE’s daughter shows that such a law is necessary.

People shouldn’t feel obliged to hide their sexual orientation for fear of being ‘attacked’ wherever they are. Small community or large city shouldn’t make a difference, they should be free to live their lives as they see fit free from judgement from others.
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  #188  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:06
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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And I read this as you are upset that some people's choices don't allow you to feel good about their sexual identity because you just can't quite make it out...

"Hi. Are you acting straight because you really are or because you are afraid to come out? Cuz i'm only OK with one of those." That's a cocktail party opener for sure.

I would have stopped after the first sentence.

Don't care. Don't wanna know if you don't want to tell. Still don't care if you do.

Am I part of the problem? Some on this thread would say yes - apathy is not OK and perpetuates the discrimination. Guess I'm just not woke enough to fight all the social injustice. Too busy saving the whales.

(on FB)
Turtles!
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  #189  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:09
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Yes we all appear to be in agreement.

Yes, some posters write ambiguously, either intentionally or unintentionally. And if something is not entirely clear then it is obviously open to interpretation.

I find it interesting: we've all had to interpret the "contentious" post but it seems that only some are deemed valid. Weird.
Watzlawick's second axiom struck hard in this thread.

http://www.wanterfall.com/Communicat...27s-Axioms.htm
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  #190  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:10
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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And I read this as you are upset that some people's choices don't allow you to feel good about their sexual identity because you just can't quite make it out...

"Hi. Are you acting straight because you really are or because you are afraid to come out? Cuz i'm only OK with one of those." That's a cocktail party opener for sure.

I would have stopped after the first sentence.

Don't care. Don't wanna know if you don't want to tell. Still don't care if you do.

Am I part of the problem? Some on this thread would say yes - apathy is not OK and perpetuates the discrimination. Guess I'm just not woke enough to fight all the social injustice. Too busy saving the whales.

(on FB)
I'm not sure how you extrapolated my feelings. Incorrectly, i might add. Or even why you would attempt to make this personal. I get the feeling you're trying to make a different point that's not really anything to do with this thread.

That's my point. Someone else's sexuality is none of my business. But folk, if they wish, should be able to state theirs, with impunity.

I'm not "upset", I'm outraged that in this day and age folk can't openly hold hands with,or snog the face off , their partner of choice, in public if they so wish, without getting pilloried for it.

No-one should have to explain or justify or be openly out, or in - if that is even a thing. However there does seem to be a law needed so that everyone can just live and let live.
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  #191  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:12
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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And I read this as you are upset that some people's choices don't allow you to feel good about their sexual identity because you just can't quite make it out...
Nah, she obviously didn't mean that.
Keep saving those turtles.....who gives a shite if you are "woke" or not?
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  #192  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:14
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Nah, she obviously didn't mean that.
Keep saving those turtles.....
Whales
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  #193  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:17
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Whales
He's saving them. On FB. Perhaps that's his opener at parties.
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  #194  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:23
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Yes!

You worded it just as I understand it. I am just waiting for you to tell me that you don't speak English, as so many of my local friends (fluent in English).

I kinda feel this local antipathy to be perceived and interpreted through a prism. And I completely relate, categories are dumb, they change fast or our willingness to be interpreted through them. Hence my friends here are not owning up to many things - churches, hobbies, interests, orientations, even jobs or cultures..they are private. I do not think at all that it would be because of intolerance. More of having a control over how people see us. It is a bit anti cliché? On the other hand opinions are direct and genuine. I also like that, it is courageous and sometimes pita. Don't want to excuse, McTavge, those aggressive idiots acting uncivilly towards your daughter. But you know that.
CPE exam is in july... we'll see....
To be honest, this post of yours is a bit of a challenge ^^
I'm glad that your friends found a way to live happily, certainly you agree (and thats maybe the point other members make) that this way is not an option for other homosexuals (either by choice or not) and that we should try to make their lifestyle possible as well. Exactly with the same restrictions to lifestyle as heterosexuals have ofc.
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  #195  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:38
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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CPE exam is in july... we'll see....
To be honest, this post of yours is a bit of a challenge ^^
I'm glad that your friends found a way to live happily, certainly you agree (and thats maybe the point other members make) that this way is not an option for other homosexuals (either by choice or not) and that we should try to make their lifestyle possible as well. Exactly with the same restrictions to lifestyle as heterosexuals have ofc.
Yeah, this. And other sexuals. Which we don't know how to define.

Your CPE will be a breeze. I taught IELTS too and it is not difficult. My text is condensed, but it is not your EN but me being an INTJ.

I like how diplomatically you put the pda. It is two sided, expression and acceptance.
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  #196  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:43
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

I don't think calling out to corrective rape and trying on a sexual assault is just "uncivil", it's barbaric. I did not want to go into the detail but there it is, in its plain horror.
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  #197  
Old 12.02.2020, 17:54
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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I like how diplomatically you put the pda. It is two sided, expression and acceptance.
Thank you

What if I said, expression leads to acceptance. Acceptance through exposure if you so will. Maybe some people have to notice three times, that their dicks wont fall of if they see two men holding hands...
I know, it's simply said if I am not the one getting beaten up for it

Edit: I'm afraid that the new law won't make a difference alone, the risk of paying a fine won't change people attitude, but it's a start.
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Old 12.02.2020, 19:36
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Yeah, this. And other sexuals. Which we don't know how to define.

Your CPE will be a breeze. I taught IELTS too and it is not difficult. My text is condensed, but it is not your EN but me being an INTJ.

I like how diplomatically you put the pda. It is two sided, expression and acceptance.
I don't think your writing style is anything to do with INTJ, and from how you write I suspect that isn't your personality type at all. It's definitely your EN

Good luck with the IELTS, Elu. They are a bit tricky but if you've had a good teacher who has supported you well you'll be golden.
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Old 12.02.2020, 20:46
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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I don't think your writing style is anything to do with INTJ, and from how you write I suspect that isn't your personality type at all. It's definitely your EN

Good luck with the IELTS, Elu. They are a bit tricky but if you've had a good teacher who has supported you well you'll be golden.

He’s not doing IELTS, he’s doing the Cambridge profiency exam which is a totally different kettle of fish.
It’s not easy at all but with plenty of practice Elu should be fine.
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  #200  
Old 12.02.2020, 20:53
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Nobody is saying that they have to openly show their affection for each other in public if they choose not to but those that do shouldn’t be castigated for it.
Umm, so it's OK for my wife to give me a blow job in public?

Please, draw a line. Somewhere.

Tom
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