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Old 12.02.2020, 12:53
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Let’s not forget that some people like keeping their private life private for a an abundant amount of reasons.
This.
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  #142  
Old 12.02.2020, 12:57
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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<<Heterosexuality/jewishness/muslim belief/christian belief/... is treated as a private matter, not as a political matter. But most of my buddies are discreet, private people. (set the religious beliefs in countries actively opposing and discriminating against followers of such)>>

Are your buddies also private and happy when they aren't allowed to visit, let alone make decisions about, their loved ones in a hospital, because they aren't next of kin?

I have read some logorrheic 'epistemologic" s%$#e from you, and I don't mind it and at times find it entertaining, but this here screams of so much self-entitled privilege and active discrimination, it really takes the cake! Laws are being changed, and you are happy that your buddies don't bother you with their homosexuality?!
Wow, what an effort to purposely misinterpret.
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  #143  
Old 12.02.2020, 13:03
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Wow, what an effort to purposely misinterpret.
What point are you trying to make then?.
On one hand you've got your private, don't ask-don't tell policy at one end of the spectrum and then at the other end, you use the word "political" (whatever that means in this context).

Is there no middle ground for you?

What about holding hands in public? Is that banned for gays? It it only for straight couples? Is it banned for everyone, gay and straight?
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  #144  
Old 12.02.2020, 13:06
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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I have read some logorrheic 'epistemologic" s%$#e from you, and I don't mind it and at times find it entertaining, but this here screams of so much self-entitled privilege and active discrimination, it really takes the cake! Laws are being changed, and you are happy that your buddies don't bother you with their homosexuality?!
What on earth are you talking about? I don't know if you think that using long words makes you sound clever (it doesn't) but how you could read the short sentence that was written and extrapolate to that nonsense is quite beyond me.
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  #145  
Old 12.02.2020, 13:13
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Wow, what an effort to purposely misinterpret.
Maybe if you wrote what you actually mean your posts wouldn’t be open to misinterpretation?
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  #146  
Old 12.02.2020, 13:21
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Maybe if you write what you actually mean your posts wouldn’t be open to misinterpretation?
There's no excuse for the deliberate, almost malicious, misinterpretation being shown here.

You basically seem to be saying "if you can't make your posts absolutely clear it's fair enough if someone assumes the worst case meaning and attacks you for it". It's not.
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  #147  
Old 12.02.2020, 13:44
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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There's no excuse for the deliberate, almost malicious, misinterpretation being shown here.

You basically seem to be saying "if you can't make your posts absolutely clear it's fair enough if someone assumes the worst case meaning and attacks you for it". It's not.
That’s your opinion and you’re perfectly entitled to it.

You are assuming that it’s a deliberate and malicious misinterpretation and that’s a pretty big leap to take in my opinion.
If the meaning of a post is not absolutely clear then it is obviously open to being interpreted differently by different people. If they interpret it in a negative way then they will respond as they see it.
If you think this is not how it works then you’ll probably have to go and delete half the posts on the forum because there’s a lot of it going on.

Some posters seem to take great delight in making ambiguous posts which are open to misinterpretation and MC is one of the biggest offenders.
You can’t continually make posts like that and then complain when people ‘misinterpret’ them.
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  #148  
Old 12.02.2020, 13:58
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

About misinterpretation

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Probably because male homosexuality has become somewhat synonymous with effeminacy, a trait which is traditionally looked down upon by other men (and some women).

Acceptance of homosexuality is also a relatively new thing.
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Oh boy. It's officially 1927.

Homosexual does not equal effeminate. Straight does not equal what, "butch"? Anecdote alert: the (self proclaimed) camp-est, most effeminate men I have ever encountered were both very straight.
Ok I am not a native english speaker, and yes, I had to google "effeminate", but it started already here imho.


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I have heard other terms, they are as frequent as calling somebody "blonde", "having a blonde moment" and other patronizing and condescending bs. I think it shows idiocy. Law treating idiocy are tough to implement, not because it may be hard to define idiocy, imho, but because people might need diff time to learn. Probably a scale of sorts.

If having no special legislature works in Texas, why shouldn't it work in CH, is my question.

My gay buddies are thrilled here. Homosexuality is treated as a private matter, not as a political matter. But most of my buddies are discreet, private people.
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<<Heterosexuality/jewishness/muslim belief/christian belief/... is treated as a private matter, not as a political matter. But most of my buddies are discreet, private people. (set the religious beliefs in countries actively opposing and discriminating against followers of such)>>

Are your buddies also private and happy when they aren't allowed to visit, let alone make decisions about, their loved ones in a hospital, because they aren't next of kin?

I have read some logorrheic 'epistemologic" s%$#e from you, and I don't mind it and at times find it entertaining, but this here screams of so much self-entitled privilege and active discrimination, it really takes the cake! Laws are being changed, and you are happy that your buddies don't bother you with their homosexuality?!
I' would be awarded zero points for reading comprehension if I'd come up with such a statement as answer to MC post.
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  #149  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:14
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

It's always easier to argue against what you just made up in your own head rather than what the person actually said.
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  #150  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:29
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

I still don't understand what MC meant by 'private' with regards to gay people.

And because I don't understand what she means by private, I cannot understand what she thinks "not private" means.

I used a pretty simple example but she chose to ignore it.

Is this what she means by a discussion? Make statements and then ignore any comeback or questioning?
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  #151  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:31
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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I still don't understand what MC meant by 'private' with regards to gay people.

And because I don't understand what she means by private, I cannot understand what she thinks "not private" means.

I used a pretty simple example but she chose to ignore it.

Is this what she means by a discussion? Make statements and then ignore any comeback or questioning?
Pretty much.
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  #152  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:38
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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I still don't understand what MC meant by 'private' with regards to gay people.

And because I don't understand what she means by private, I cannot understand what she thinks "not private" means.

I used a pretty simple example but she chose to ignore it.

Is this what she means by a discussion? Make statements and then ignore any comeback or questioning?
You missed out thanking people that defend her while saying nothing herself to clarify what it is she actually meant
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  #153  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:45
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

Possibly private means simply that.. Private, none of our business, why do we need to know, why do they need to tell us?

Should it be a conversation starter? Would you treat somebody differently one way or the other?

I tend to know the orientation of close friends but people around me on the train, somebody near me in the office, the lady at the bus stop I chat to in the morning.. I have no idea and feel no need to ask, it's their business. I treat all of these people as equal, without having the need to check.
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  #154  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:02
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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<<Heterosexuality/jewishness/muslim belief/christian belief/... is treated as a private matter, not as a political matter. But most of my buddies are discreet, private people. (set the religious beliefs in countries actively opposing and discriminating against followers of such)>>

Are your buddies also private and happy when they aren't allowed to visit, let alone make decisions about, their loved ones in a hospital, because they aren't next of kin?

I have read some logorrheic 'epistemologic" s%$#e from you, and I don't mind it and at times find it entertaining, but this here screams of so much self-entitled privilege and active discrimination, it really takes the cake! Laws are being changed, and you are happy that your buddies don't bother you with their homosexuality?!
I read MC's comment as saying her chums appreciate that their sexuality is seen in switzerland as no one elses damn business, and that suits them because they enjoy their privacy. I don't see anything objectionable in that.

I think we're getting a bit away from the tone of 'hurray, group hug' that the thread deserves.

Last edited by reids; 12.02.2020 at 15:04. Reason: added a group hug
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  #155  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:04
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Possibly private means simply that.. Private, none of our business, why do we need to know, why do they need to tell us?

Should it be a conversation starter? Would you treat somebody differently one way or the other?

I tend to know the orientation of close friends but people around me on the train, somebody near me in the office, the lady at the bus stop I chat to in the morning.. I have no idea and feel no need to ask, it's their business. I treat all of these people as equal, without having the need to check.
Except you've twisted what MC wrote completely around 180 degrees and are answering the question from an observer or third party point of view.

I'm asking her what she means as private or discreet from the gay person's point of view - which is what she meant.

Without putting words in her mouth so to speak - as she feels she cannot answer, I believe she is saying that they gay people should act in a more private and discreet manner than straight people.

Here's my very simple question to her again which could help me to understand what she really means:

What about holding hands in public?

Is that banned for gays? It it only for straight couples? Is it banned for everyone, gay and straight?
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  #156  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:16
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Without putting words in her mouth
That's exactly what you are doing, in the very next sentence
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I believe she is saying that they gay people should act in a more private and discreet manner than straight people.
As with earlier posts, to infer that meaning from any ambiguity in what was posted must take a positive effort.

What she said was
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My gay buddies are thrilled here. Homosexuality is treated as a private matter, not as a political matter. But most of my buddies are discreet, private people.
Nothing, absolutely nothing at all, of that text implies any judgement over what other people should or should not do.

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Here's my very simple question to her again which could help me to understand what she really means:

What about holding hands in public?

Is that banned for gays? It it only for straight couples? Is it banned for everyone, gay and straight?
Why are you addressing such questions directly at her? She's not been making any comments on those points, but you're trying to force her into a discussion about a point that she hasn't been making.
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  #157  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:17
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Except you've twisted what MC wrote completely around 180 degrees and are answering the question from an observer or third party point of view.

I'm asking her what she means as private or discreet from the gay person's point of view - which is what she meant.

Without putting words in her mouth so to speak - as she feels she cannot answer, I believe she is saying that they gay people should act in a more private and discreet manner than straight people.

Here's my very simple question to her again which could help me to understand what she really means:

What about holding hands in public?

Is that banned for gays? It it only for straight couples? Is it banned for everyone, gay and straight?
Are you talking about this sentence?
"My gay buddies are thrilled here. Homosexuality is treated as a private matter, not as a political matter. But most of my buddies are discreet, private people."

It seems pretty straightforward, the most that I can 'read into it' is that she has friends that don't shout about their sexuality? They're not obviously one way or another? Something like that?

Or are we talking something else here?
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  #158  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:25
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Why are you addressing such questions directly at her? She's not been making any comments on those points, but you're trying to force her into a discussion about a point that she hasn't been making.
Because, simply, I do not understand what she means by "they are private and discreet."

But as you seem to be so full of it, what does she mean?
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Old 12.02.2020, 15:28
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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It seems pretty straightforward, the most that I can 'read into it' is that she has friends that don't shout about their sexuality? They're not obviously one way or another? Something like that?
What do you mean by that? Do you mean physically shouting or are you, like MC, being particularly vague.
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Old 12.02.2020, 15:38
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Re: In support of my gay daughter...

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Because, simply, I do not understand what she means by "they are private and discreet."

But as you seem to be so full of it, what does she mean?
I think, and this is just a guess, that she means that they are private and discreet. I really can't see any ambiguity about it.

In practical terms I would read it simply as John_H says, they don't make a public big deal about their sexuality, whatever it may be.

You seem to be trying to argue a different point, maybe that gay people feel constrained to be discreet about these things, and that maybe they shouldn't need to.

I'd certainly agree with that, as, I'm sure, would most others here.
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