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  #61  
Old 03.03.2020, 10:05
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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did anyone read 'the hausfrau' book from a few years ago. it stars a swiss man as the antagonist.
I remember reading the review and just thought it sounded so depressing and desolate that I didnít want to read it. Itís an American woman living in Dietlikon with a Swiss husband, Swiss lover and Swiss psychiatrist. The authorís last name is Essbaum.
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Old 03.03.2020, 10:49
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Re: Swiss men and dating

A few important points for the OP (I've dated a lot in Switzerland before getting married, so I feel I'm qualified ;-). The Swiss label is BS.

* First, take yourself on a date, and find identify your weaknesses. You can't be true to someone else if you can't be true to yourself.

*Dating is about mutual discovery and chemistry. Discover who your dates are, not what they are.

*Did I mention chemistry? If it's not there and it's not mutual, it's dead in the water, move on, nothing more to see here.

*Look for red flags and discrepancies. No matter how good he or she looks, if there is doubt....there is no doubt. Words must match actions, actions must match words.

*Use dating apps if you must, but you have better chances participating in group activities with gender breakdown that is either 50/50 or slightly in your favour. (hiking, photography, whatever). People in these situations tend to let their guard down as they focus on the activity, you'll see them for real.

*Emotional maturity beats good looks any day. Of course, physical attraction is important, but if he/she can't open up or commit, you could waste some major time.

*If you're encountering the same negative traits in your dates, it's not them...it's you.

In an expat heavy environment, dating does disfavour professional women. Generally research indicates (and I say generally) that men want to date someone below there success and education, women want to date someone the same or more successful or educated. I don't have a degree but have a good job, my wife has a PhD and earns more than me...we couldn't be happier. :-)
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  #63  
Old 03.03.2020, 10:58
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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I remember reading the review and just thought it sounded so depressing and desolate that I didnít want to read it. Itís an American woman living in Dietlikon with a Swiss husband, Swiss lover and Swiss psychiatrist. The authorís last name is Essbaum.
I read it, wouldnít recommend it.
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  #64  
Old 03.03.2020, 11:01
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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Indeed. All the ‘look at me! Look at me! Look how clever I am’ stuff is really not cool at all.
Agree with this, however there is nothing wrong with being proud of one's achievements.

On the other hand there are some people that simply attack others out of jealousy, it goes both ways.
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Old 03.03.2020, 11:10
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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I'm quite a passive person, and not a lot of friend making skills so I do a lot of listening and blind agreement. So a lot of the people I hang out with are ones that need to talk about themselves (no one on EF for those who know me :P ).

It's almost entertaining: I know exactly which of these people have PhDs because they seem to mention it in every conversation. Sometimes twice.
I know which ones work in finance, because again apparently it needs to come up in every conversation.
Don't get me started on endurance sports

Just recently I received the one random comment on how they KNOW how to use excel and they use it at work all the time!?!? Strange flex.

Inferiority complex is a fascinating and amusing topic!
There are differences between socializing at work and socializing with friends.

In some (fortunately by no means all) work environments, there is a lot of competition. Especially if you are in a dynamic, diverse and fast moving team you risk getting pushed over and trodden on if you don't push back and establish an area of superiority. Especially in middle management type positions there is a lot of power play and one-upmanship. It may be necessary to bluff your way but it is important to assert yourself, especially when meeting new people.

People who spend too much time doing that have difficult finding the off switch and continue acting like that when they are among their real freinds which is why they are perceived as being jerks. Which is why the only people who have time for them are other jerks.
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  #66  
Old 03.03.2020, 11:14
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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*Use dating apps if you must, but you have better chances participating in group activities with gender breakdown that is either 50/50 or slightly in your favour. (hiking, photography, whatever). People in these situations tend to let their guard down as they focus on the activity, you'll see them for real.
100% agree here. Many apps exaggerate their female share. In reality there are mostly men chasing down a small number of females, many of who are probably fake. And the few genuine females are inundated by messages from men who don't know how to play the game or act respectfully and these women end up throwing the sponge and stop interacting. I know of several women who complain that online dating apps are pure hell, whereas the men I know complain nobody ever replies to their messages (nobody that is, apart from the Russian and Nigerian scammers).

On the other hand, apps create the impression of being the way to go, meaning men no longer pursue other avenues, where actually they have statistically better chances of meeting somebody. Including as you say, hobbies and social activities.
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Old 03.03.2020, 11:19
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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Agree with this, however there is nothing wrong with being proud of one's achievements.
Not at all, I didnít say there was but flaunting them on a date is really not the best approach.
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  #68  
Old 03.03.2020, 11:28
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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*Emotional maturity beats good looks any day. Of course, physical attraction is important, but if he/she can't open up or commit, you could waste some major time.

*If you're encountering the same negative traits in your dates, it's not them...it's you.
Commitment and stability are so underrated.

One ex-colleague from FR had the same complaint about men a few years ago while I worked in Neuch‚tel. Men don't want stable relationships, they don't settle, they go for "dumber" girls, etc. Today, she's in Canada and tomorrow who knows where.

So, people wanting to settle but not really committed to settling.
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Old 03.03.2020, 11:44
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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*If you're encountering the same negative traits in your dates, it's not them...it's you.
this. please close thread
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  #70  
Old 03.03.2020, 12:02
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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Not at all, I didnít say there was but flaunting them on a date is really not the best approach.
It's a fine line. Confidence is attractive, overcondifence is not.
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  #71  
Old 03.03.2020, 12:26
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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It's a fine line. Confidence is attractive, overcondifence is not.
Not only is it a fine line, but the line shifts relative to the person.
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Old 03.03.2020, 12:34
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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There are differences between socializing at work and socializing with friends.

In some (fortunately by no means all) work environments, there is a lot of competition. Especially if you are in a dynamic, diverse and fast moving team you risk getting pushed over and trodden on if you don't push back and establish an area of superiority. Especially in middle management type positions there is a lot of power play and one-upmanship. It may be necessary to bluff your way but it is important to assert yourself, especially when meeting new people.

People who spend too much time doing that have difficult finding the off switch and continue acting like that when they are among their real freinds which is why they are perceived as being jerks. Which is why the only people who have time for them are other jerks.
Definitely good insight! I guess I am in a odd position where my work colleagues are all a good few decades older than me and belong to the older 'authoritative hierarchy' management style. Where socializing is mostly millennials who have been coddled their whole life and are all special shining stars.

I can see how the latter are pushing hard to show dominance on the former, but they aren't doing themselves any favors when trying to brag about traits they haven't realized to be mediocre.
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  #73  
Old 03.03.2020, 12:43
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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It's a fine line. Confidence is attractive, overcondifence is not.
This. But who has time for either, tbh. Sometimes, you just have to cut straight through the antics and are simply direct. Because...because Switzerland.

To be an optimist is also sometimes out of fashion within certain circles (or misinterpreted as overconfident), some like to get together and complain, even on dates. Ugh.

There has been Excel mentioned again, hahahaha.

People should brag about their warriordom on EF, lol. I'd prefer my date to share about his real achievements and passions, tbh. Be it research or whatever.

Last edited by MusicChick; 03.03.2020 at 13:19.
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  #74  
Old 03.03.2020, 13:03
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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It's a fine line. Confidence is attractive, overcondifence is not.
"Overconfidence" is usually insecurity. So look for what they try to cover up by bragging. What you find may not even be a bad thing.
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Old 03.03.2020, 13:12
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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I'm quite a passive person, and not a lot of friend making skills so I do a lot of listening and blind agreement. So a lot of the people I hang out with are ones that need to talk about themselves (no one on EF for those who know me :P ).

It's almost entertaining: I know exactly which of these people have PhDs because they seem to mention it in every conversation. Sometimes twice.
I know which ones work in finance, because again apparently it needs to come up in every conversation.
Don't get me started on endurance sports

Just recently I received the one random comment on how they KNOW how to use excel and they use it at work all the time!?!? Strange flex.

Inferiority complex is a fascinating and amusing topic!
Blind agreement? Then maybe you're not really listening...you just tune out.
I rarely hang out with people whose company make me tune out. As for those with PhDs, I only found out because it was relevant to the discussion. One of my friends has a PhD in a field that is of interest to me (although unfortunately he doesn't work in that field anymore), so I am the one who keeps opening up the subject. I think he's pretty comfortable with that because we're having very relaxed conversations over a meal or whatever, nobody has to prove anything.
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  #76  
Old 03.03.2020, 13:12
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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It's a fine line. Confidence is attractive, overcondifence is not.
It's also a question of perception.

What one person may perceive as confidence may already look like overconfidence to another.

Especially when you're dating across cultural and linguistical barriers, that certain twinkle in the eye or hint of irony or tiny hint of self deprecation may get lost in translation.
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  #77  
Old 03.03.2020, 13:13
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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Not at all, I didnít say there was but flaunting them on a date is really not the best approach.
Particularly on a first date. Friendships and relationships evolve, but I think what keeps a person intrigued is that there's always something new to find out about each other. With all my long term relationships, and many of my long term friendships, the clincher is when you can talk all night, laugh a lot, feel totally at ease in each other's company and just lose track of time.
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  #78  
Old 03.03.2020, 13:20
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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Blind agreement? Then maybe you're not really listening...you just tune out.
I rarely hang out with people whose company make me tune out. As for those with PhDs, I only found out because it was relevant to the discussion. One of my friends has a PhD in a field that is of interest to me (although unfortunately he doesn't work in that field anymore), so I am the one who keeps opening up the subject. I think he's pretty comfortable with that because we're having very relaxed conversations over a meal or whatever, nobody has to prove anything.
I disagree.

Sometimes people say things that I maybe find interesting, that i want to understand better, or see the other side of an argument, even if I disagree. So I want to know more. But if i tell them I disagree they stop talking or get argumentative. I need to pretend to agree with them so I can work it out a bit better. But I can't say that i do agree, as that would be telling an outright lie. So I find some vague and ambiguous things to say so that they don't stop, but so I haven't actually agreed. Such as, "how interesting, I never considered that before", or "I never looked at it that way, but I can see where you're coming from".

I'm talking here more about the type of conversation you might have with a stranger in a bar. Not really about dates.
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Old 03.03.2020, 13:28
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Re: Swiss men and dating

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I disagree.

Sometimes people say things that I maybe find interesting, that i want to understand better, even if I disagree. So I want to know more. But if i tell them I disagree they stop talking or get argumentative. I need to pretend to agree with them so I can work it out a bit better. But I can't say that i do agree, as that would be telling an outright lie. So I find some vague and ambiguous things to say so that they don't stop, but so I haven't actually agreed. Such as, "how interesting, I never considered that before".

I'm talking here more about the type of conversation you might have with a stranger in a bar. Not really about dates.
That sounds quite English to me, I like it.

It translates to me as "I disagree completely. But tell me more."

Back home the fact that people are even willing to listen already means they are interested, no matter if agreeing or disagreeing with you. Disagreeing is a compliment, spending time to actually explain one's pov and contrast it to be able to reach something new or suitable, together. If somebody agrees frequently, you run. Boring.
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Old 03.03.2020, 13:32
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Re: Swiss men and dating

Some men have an inferiority complex when it comes to women's money and independence.
Not all do, and this isn't exclusive to Swiss men, let alone all Swiss men.

Some Swiss like to travel and be adventurous.
Not all do, and this isn't exclusive to Swiss, or Swiss women.

Some Swiss go abroad and then come back.
Not all do and this, too, isn't exclusive to Swiss, or Swiss women or men.


What it is is this:

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Referring to people in such a manner is a huge turn off.
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If you start flaunting your diplomas and salary and olympic medals and nobel prizes on your second date, you are maybe coming across as superior and insensitive. And maybe even needy. It's not a job interview, it's a date. Treat it as such.
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*If you're encountering the same negative traits in your dates, it's not them...it's you.

Also, I find it highly amusing OP would qualify herself as such an incredibly self-sufficient, well-off woman, yet then she throws in a complaint about the fact that men here don't pick up the bill on her first date. Here's a little secret about the Swiss: it's not customary and women never EXPECT the man to pay.
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