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Old 21.03.2020, 10:59
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

And like they say.

" you can't always get what you want, but you get what you need!"
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  #22  
Old 21.03.2020, 11:04
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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Yes, I fully agree but that hasn't happened so far. The reduction of human activity has a massive positive impact on the environment even after a month. I really hope that the one thing we take away from this virus, is that changing human behavior matters and helps - even though it is a pain and even if we need to give things up for it.
I don’t mind paying price in form of my reduced investments and pension funds resulted from collapsed global markets, starting from scratches in times of recession, using less or completely eliminate CO2 emission by not driving combustion engines, having less in life overall without opulence and luxury, sharing with less privileged my privileges given by opportunities and luck and the list can go on ... however is everyone, especially big companies and corporates willing to pay the same price and slow down their growth dictated by greed and competition? I will selflessly follow all the sensible rules that can improve the world on earth for everyone, make my sacrifices. If only we all can truly be on the same page with sturdy commitments and no foul play involved.
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  #23  
Old 21.03.2020, 13:15
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

I guess it's easy to think of the virus as being a good thing when you're not someone who has lost their job and/or their savings because of it or who has had to watch a loved one slowly die of suffocation from the virus?
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  #24  
Old 21.03.2020, 20:17
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

This is the most irritating post I have read in a long time.
I‘m trying very hard to tone down my response.

‚ Covid-19 has forced everybody to take a break and take stock.
A&E is quieter ....‘

I work in the hospital, we are scrambling like crazy to prepare for this, we are mostly terrified for what’s coming, we are running out of basic necessities now already due to supply chain issues, we will be changing to min. 12 hour shifts next week, in a wonderful show of support and gratitude the government has made clear our usual working rights no longer apply, ... I’m going to stop. We are here, we want to help, we plan to help and we will help. Don’t underestimate this and have a bit of consideration. You may be sitting at home picking your nose but many others are not.

No, it’s a bad thing. Stay at home.
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  #25  
Old 21.03.2020, 21:26
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

According to some studies, the reduction of air pollution resulting from the coronavirus related lockdown likely saved much more lives than the actual mortality rate of the virus itself.
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Old 21.03.2020, 23:14
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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According to some studies, the reduction of air pollution resulting from the coronavirus related lockdown likely saved much more lives than the actual mortality rate of the virus itself.
Links, figures, evidence please.
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Old 21.03.2020, 23:19
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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According to some studies, the reduction of air pollution resulting from the coronavirus related lockdown likely saved much more lives than the actual mortality rate of the virus itself.
There could also be a lot of indirect deaths due to the healthcare system being overloaded. Many people still have normal life-threatening situations and need an ambulance on time, intensive care unit, operation theaters which are being used as ICUs. etc. and will not necessarily have it.
I think we will not see any benefit once everything is taken into account. Not even counting the psychological morbidity that will come out of the economic crisis that will follow.
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  #28  
Old 21.03.2020, 23:33
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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Links, figures, evidence please.
Most of them are referring to the same study.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-pandemic.html

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/17/h...ntl/index.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcm.../#68d5f4ef5764

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ns/5066718002/

https://nypost.com/2020/03/18/corona...air-pollution/

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/18/coron...ists-12417294/

https://electrek.co/2020/03/20/coron...air-pollution/
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  #29  
Old 22.03.2020, 02:09
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

It is not good, and anything it does for the environment is temporary at best and comes at a great economic cost, especially compared to the alternative ways of doing that.

The only silver lining I see is that companies have been forced to think about home office and the situation might be better in the future from this point of view. This could reduce the stress on transportation systems and decrease emissions.
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  #30  
Old 22.03.2020, 03:02
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

From having a look at a few of the links posted by henrikh, above, I came across the name Marshall Burke, Assistant Professor, Dept. of Earth System Science, Deputy Director, Center on Food Security and the Environment at Stanford University. He wrote an attempt to predict what might happen if "COVID-19 reduces economic activity, which reduces pollution, which saves lives". 8th March 2020
http://www.g-feed.com/2020/03/covid-...-activity.html

The comments there, suggesting other indirect effects of Corona, made me think through ways in which there could be fewer deaths, or more deaths, in the short- or medium term, as a result of Corona. Here, spontaneous ideas divided into those two categories. Although I don't have numbers, it seems to me that the sum of the "fewer deaths" is likely to be considerably smaller that the "more deaths":

Fewer deaths than would have happened without Corona
  • Less traffic and less industry lead to less air pollution, fewer respiratory ailments (other than corona) so fewer deaths
  • Less water pollution, fish recover, fishing industry saved, less unemployment, fewer deaths
  • Less traffic and less industry lead to less accidents, so fewer deaths
  • More buildings empty of staff, more proper maintenance and repairs done, fewer accidents, fewer deaths (once the staff and customers return)
  • More networking of help for those in isolation, sharing more joy in everyday kindness, fewer deaths (from suicide)
  • Some aspects of society may be re-considered, e.g. the potential harm of air-conditioning, the benefits of lowering pollution, the advantages of re-awakening cooperation, better societal care, fewer deaths.
More deaths than would have happened without Corona
  • Infection with the virus, so more deaths
  • More social distancing, more loneliness, more mental illness, less employability, poverty kills, so more deaths
  • More social distancing, more loneliness, more deaths (from suicide)
  • Less commerce leads to more businesses folding, so more unemployment, poverty kills, so more deaths
  • More virus-related patients filling more beds in hospitals, so fewer resources for others who would have needed treatment, so more deaths
  • Many people over-working long hours overtime to try to save patients, or to save their businesses or clients from bankruptcy, so their health deteriorates, so more deaths
  • In poor areas, no facilities to save the ill nor to deal with the dead, potential for more infections of other kinds, more illness, more deaths

Besides death, there's also continued life, but with ongoing issues of health or poverty after Corona has lost its power.

Last edited by doropfiz; 22.03.2020 at 08:45. Reason: typo
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  #31  
Old 22.03.2020, 06:54
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

Good thing? No, but there is a lot of potential to take some learnings from the experience and apply them once we have passed through this challenge.

Working from home - maybe 1-2 days a week to reduce traffic and pollution?

Hygiene - why not maintain the practice of regularly washing one's hands and avoiding unnecessary physical contact?

Helping the elderly - the practice of helping elderly people with shopping/chores could perhaps be something we instill in our youth during school holidays.

Re-evaluating travel - is so much business travel really needed now that we have teams/skype/webex etc?
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  #32  
Old 22.03.2020, 07:06
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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According to some studies, the reduction of air pollution resulting from the coronavirus related lockdown likely saved much more lives than the actual mortality rate of the virus itself.
Not casting doubt here but I'd love to read those studies. Any chance of a link Henrikh?

Nevermind, just spotted 'em.

Last edited by Horatio Gonzales; 22.03.2020 at 07:13. Reason: Nevermind
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Old 22.03.2020, 07:23
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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Not casting doubt here but I'd love to read those studies. Any chance of a link Henrikh?

Nevermind, just spotted 'em.

Not exactly scientific studies but mostly links to various tabloids such as UK Daily Mail and Metro where often the authors have the reasoning capabilities and education of a 10 year old, which actually adequately describes OP. I still find the title of the post and his gleeful claim that he is enjoying it as crass and offensive
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  #34  
Old 22.03.2020, 08:14
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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According to some studies, the reduction of air pollution resulting from the coronavirus related lockdown likely saved much more lives than the actual mortality rate of the virus itself.
Thanks for posting the links. The ones I checked all relate to China, and so I'm not surprised at all, since it's pretty well known that the cities are heavily polluted.
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Old 22.03.2020, 08:19
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

It is heartening to see a global response to a global issue, albeit not so well coordinated - gives us hope that we could actually tackle future global issues such as Global Warming.
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Old 22.03.2020, 09:25
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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Fewer deaths than would have happened without Corona
  • good points
More deaths than would have happened without Corona
  • more good points
I found this article on crisis psychology interesting. We react differently to shock risks, than known, distributed risks.

https://www.nzz.ch/meinung/coronavir...mktcval=E-mail
  • Risk researchers found that in the the weeks after 9/11, the switch from flying to driving cost 1,600 more American lives
  • During a pandemic, less blood is donated
  • Food hoarding and the economic slump costs the health and lives of less well-off people far in excess of the pandemic public health outcomes
In my view, the media has to change from a minute by minute loop reporting of impending economic doom, empty shelves and overflowing ICUs. Current reporting is a problem, not the solution.

The phrase social distancing is bs too. Physical distancing is necessary, and social closeness is vital to avoid a mental health crisis that will last long after the public health consequences have passed.
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  #37  
Old 22.03.2020, 09:39
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing?

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Exceptional circumstances like these remind us just how important our health is, yet 4.2 million premature deaths globally are linked to air pollution.
Coron-19 has had a greater effect than anything that has preceeded it. Yes, there have been 13'000 deaths as 22nd March 2020, but the people affected by air polution are your kids not your parents, the later of whom have lived a full life already.

Coron-19 has showed the planet there is a better way to move forward and I hope the human race can learn from it.

I love my parents, but awful as it sounds I love my kids more. If I had a choose, they would come first. Sorry if you're having to make that choice, but don't shot the messenger, shoot big business. It is big business that has pumped money into China, and it is big business that is ultimately responsible for coron-19 spread. SARS didn't spead around the world 20 years ago cause we had far less business with that part of the world. Its big business that has polluted the hell out of the place. That has turned parts of China to hell.

They didn't close the borders of Switzerland cause of the Schengen agreement has destroyed them. Switzerland could afford it, but big business didn't want to pay. How many Suisse people don't have jobs in the hospitals cause they are taken by Italian's, some 4'000. Don't give me that shit, they couldn't find local labour. No, big business demanded cheaper labour and they found it.

Geneva is the same. I lived close to the border 20 years ago, before Schengen. Ferney-Volitare was a sleeply quiet place. Now the buildings there go out to Divonne-les-bains. Geneva has been invaded by the French. They cannot close the borders there either. The economy may have expended, but at the expense us already living here. Wages are less, and costs are higher.

Coron-19 is showing the world that big business isn't a good thing and its doing a better job at that anything that has preceeded it.

Coron-19 has forced all of us to take stock and to slow down. To give the planet a chance to breath.

Last edited by markalex; 22.03.2020 at 11:30.
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  #38  
Old 22.03.2020, 09:46
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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I am beginning to enjoy the covid-19 pandemic. It has forced all those business men to take it easy for a few weeks. I read an article the other month about how daft this idea that we're all going to to make more money, get richer and richer and live forever in a world with limited resources.

The metals that go into the eletronics we all use won't last forever, at some point they won't be able to find anymore. The water we're all busy poisioning isn't in endless supply, it will run out. The solar power panels we're busy putting up here for endless power source, have a lifespan of just 30 years. No shit, what do we do with them then. The same thing we do with the electronics, bury them out of sight, out of mind.

Yes. Covid-19 has forced everybody to take a break and take stock. We're not all following each other to work in tiny steel boxes like ants everyday, no we staying at home with our families. I saw the father of one of my neighbours yesterday hanging out the washing. I have never seen him do that before in the past ten years!

The environment is breathing a sign of relief, the air cleaner that it has been since I was a child everywhere. The crime rate across the world has dropped through the floor. Burglers are staying at home, nobody is being attacked after a night out drinking too much cause the bar is closed. The A&E department is quieter than it ever has been [in some places], sure there are cases with covid-19 there, but far less accidents. The human race has a common enemy and we're actually pulling together. Apart from the odd idiot with his foot in his mouth [did some one say Chinese virus] there is almost no news about terrorists, wars, tarrifs or humans arguing with each other about god knows what.

The world has at the beginning of 2020 slowed down a little and is taking stock of what is important in life. And its a good thing. You only live once. There is no after life. When you die, you die. Make the most of it and leave it in a better state than you found it.
You have some valid points. As horrible as COV is and as sad as it is to see people suffer, it is rare that we will ever have the opportunities to see empirical scientific data about what happens when the world economy and industry shuts down and the impact this has on pollution and the environment. Lots of lessons will be learn and I think it will give a lot of leverage to environmental projects i general. Additionally, lessons learnt from the handling of this pandemic will likely result in greater preparedness in future by giving employees more access to home working, stockpiling more medical supplies and just in general responding and making the right decisions more quickly.

it will be a harsh lesson to learn, but if we don't take action it will all be in vain.
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Old 22.03.2020, 10:20
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing?

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Cparts of China to hell.

They didn't close the borders of Switzerland cause of the Schengen agreement has destroyed them. Switzerland couldn't afford, no big business didn't want to pay. How many Suisse people don't have jobs in the hospitals cause they are taken by Italian's, some 4'000. Don't give me that shit, they couldn't find local labour. No, big business demanded cheaper labour and they found it.

Geneva is the same. I lived close to the border 20 years ago, before Schengen. Ferney-Volitare was a sleeply quiet place. Now the buildings there go out to Divonne-les-bains. Geneva has been invaded by the French. They cannot close the borders there either. The economy may have expended, but at the expense us already living here. Wages are less, and costs are higher.

Wow! Are you in fact a Swiss citizen by birth of have you also "invaded" and taken away jobs from the local population? Do you even have a job or just a big chip on your shoulder because while you have sent your C.V to multiple big companies, they have failed to employ you or retain your services.

Today is in fact Mother's Day in UK so on this day we would rather not be told how disposable our parents are
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Old 22.03.2020, 10:28
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Re: Coron-19 a good thing

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I am working 18 hours a day to keep my business afloat while counselling my clients who are in despair as their small business are forced to close.
Well done to you! Chapeau!

Yes, I know several others in this position. Some trying to save businesses, some who work in social fields. It is phenomenal how dedicated they/you are, to trying to prevent shipwreck for as many of their clients as possible.

Here's wishing you well, Dr Dog. You might not be able to save them all, but each one you manage to stabilise will be someone who more quickly be able to re-build some new variation of their lives, and get back to supporting themselves and others. I hope you can get sleep, eat healthily, find several moments of 5 minutes a day to enjoy something (music? dancing?). Hang in there.
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