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View Poll Results: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement...
Go nowhere near far enough 12 15.79%
Don't quite go far enough 21 27.63%
Are appropriate 40 52.63%
Go a bit too far 2 2.63%
Go far too far 1 1.32%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 29.03.2020, 15:01
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

@TonyClifton May I suggest you read about the Spanish Influenza on Wikipedia?
It started in early 1918 and lasted until late 1920.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

We are immensely fortunate that we have advanced medicine in our day and age.
Nevertheless history as a lesson really should be taken into consideration.
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  #42  
Old 29.03.2020, 15:20
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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@TonyClifton May I suggest you read about the Spanish Influenza on Wikipedia?
It started in early 1918 and lasted until late 1920.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

We are immensely fortunate that we have advanced medicine in our day and age.
Nevertheless history as a lesson really should be taken into consideration.
We're not going to see the same death rates as from the Spanish flu epidemic, I'm quite sure of that.

The shutdown of the economy will hit public services, livelihoods and cause untold misery and deaths in the years to come. I wonder when the pandemic is over if people won't wonder if the action now was a step too far.
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  #43  
Old 29.03.2020, 16:45
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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I wonder when the pandemic is over if people won't wonder if the action now was a step too far.
Some will for sure. But then some people will wonder if it was all a US/Israel/Chinese/Russian/Little Green Men from the Planet Zog plot. Some people will wonder anything.
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  #44  
Old 29.03.2020, 18:40
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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The longer this goes on, one wonders if it the measures taken by governments across the world isn't a step too far. Even with the numbers coming out of Italy the number of dead isn't that high in the grand scheme of things.

Is it really worth crashing the world's economy, and the long term damage (including deaths) that will happen just to save people now? I'm starting to think it may not be.
You just don't get it. Cov-19 is as, or more infectious than the common cold and probably at least ten times more lethal than normal flu. This is a long term health nightmare.
As to not many deaths in the grand scheme of things ....... ????
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  #45  
Old 29.03.2020, 20:05
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

How much are the recent pandemics down to globalisation?


https://www.livescience.com/worst-ep...n-history.html

Looks like recurring pandemics are going to become a normal part of everyday life.

Are we going to accept herd immunity policies?
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  #46  
Old 29.03.2020, 20:10
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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Are we going to accept herd immunity policies?
Hopefully, yes.

Tom
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  #47  
Old 29.03.2020, 20:13
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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How much are the recent pandemics down to globalisation?
At least since Christopher Columbus people have been travelling the world and taking virus, bacillus, and whatnot with them. That's nothing new, the various indigenous peoples that were conquered by our European ancestors provide ample evidence.

What has changed is the speed and the number of travellers. What might have taken decades centuries ago may happen in months nowadays. See Covid-19.
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  #48  
Old 29.03.2020, 20:24
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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You just don't get it. Cov-19 is as, or more infectious than the common cold and probably at least ten times more lethal than normal flu. This is a long term health nightmare.
As to not many deaths in the grand scheme of things ....... ????
I do get it, really, look on the other thread, I was one of the first people warning about the Coronavirus back in January/February!

My point is that this virus, although dangerous, could be worse. It's an unfair virus in that it disproportionately targets the elderly and vulnerable. BUT, in spite of this, looking at the death rate so far, is it reasonable to shut down the world's economy? There consequences of this will last years, and many people will suffer.
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  #49  
Old 29.03.2020, 20:47
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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I do get it, really, look on the other thread, I was one of the first people warning about the Coronavirus back in January/February!

My point is that this virus, although dangerous, could be worse. It's an unfair virus in that it disproportionately targets the elderly and vulnerable. BUT, in spite of this, looking at the death rate so far, is it reasonable to shut down the world's economy? There consequences of this will last years, and many people will suffer.
It's not just the elderly and vulnerable in terms of pre-existing health conditions that are being struck down
and dying from the virus, as there's a countless number of other victims of all ages - that don't meet this
criteria at all that are dying from it.

So it's becoming a bit of a lottery as to whether those that are not elderly and vulnerable can be seriously
affected by it or not.
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  #50  
Old 29.03.2020, 20:59
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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What has changed is the speed and the number of travellers. What might have taken decades centuries ago may happen in months nowadays. See Covid-19.
Yep. Air travel has doubled in ten years.
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  #51  
Old 29.03.2020, 21:04
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

We have a herd immunity policy with regard to the flu and we accept an appreciable yearly death rate. That rate could be lowered if more people got themselves vaccinated and more people isolated themselves when they do have the flu. Looks like we are going to add a yearly jab for coronavirus and the next one and the.....
As far as I know, with the normal flu, if one is asymptomatic one is not likely to pass it on. This is not the case with cov19. The parents who held a children's birthday party across from us yesterday were being were being both stupid and socially irresponsible.
Obviously, long term, society is going to have to find a new balance but the present restrictions in Switzerland seem really sensible and no I don't believe it will be business as usual in a years time
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  #52  
Old 29.03.2020, 21:41
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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The shutdown of the economy will hit public services, livelihoods and cause untold misery and deaths in the years to come. I wonder when the pandemic is over if people won't wonder if the action now was a step too far.
Unnecessary drama. Economical crisis are regular phenomenon. Coronavirus just bring this one earlier, it's not going to be the end of the word.

Who cares if markets goes down, companies will adapt or die, business as usual. It happens anyway every decade and cools down unrealistic optimism.
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  #53  
Old 29.03.2020, 21:48
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

Time to nuke and pave.

Tom
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  #54  
Old 29.03.2020, 22:14
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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As to not many deaths in the grand scheme of things ....... ????
Net (!) growth of world population is >1 per second. Yes, net and yes, per second. In a world that is already dangerously overpopulated. That’s the grand scheme of things.

Yes there’s an emotional component of course and no one wants to see anyone die from anything. But leaving that aside, in the big scheme of things it indeed doesn’t deserve the attention. Would anyone have given two craps if this had only been confined to Asia with the same # of deaths (or actually likely many more)? Does anyone care or create a live ticker for the 30’000+ that die from hunger every single day (and that’s many less than it used to be, mind you) or the 2’500 daily deaths from malaria?

Nope no one does because it’s not immediately “here”, so we shut it out and pretend it doesn’t exist.

Yes, again, emotionally, some of what is going on out there sort of makes sense. Rationally, objectively, set into a bigger picture and perspective - it makes much less sense.
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  #55  
Old 30.03.2020, 00:58
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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As far as I know, with the normal flu, if one is asymptomatic one is not likely to pass it on. This is not the case with cov19.
How do you pass it (i.e. via the "droplets of bodily fluids") if you don't cough or sneeze (i.e. don't have symptoms)?
(other than by kissing )
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  #56  
Old 30.03.2020, 01:10
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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How do you pass it (i.e. via the "droplets of bodily fluids") if you don't cough or sneeze (i.e. don't have symptoms)?
(other than by kissing )
You breathe it out and transfer it by touching surfaces after you've touched your eyes, ears, nose or mouth in the same way that staphylococcus aureus is transferred.
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  #57  
Old 30.03.2020, 01:17
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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How do you pass it (i.e. via the "droplets of bodily fluids") if you don't cough or sneeze (i.e. don't have symptoms)?
(other than by kissing )
The droplets are in the air that leave the body. Even healthy people can and do both cough and sneeze, at least sometimes, and symptomatic people the more so and the more frequently. And those explosions shoot the air out for up to several meters. People also sigh. And project air when speaking, shouting or singing. And also just by breathing forcefully during exertion, and even send out droplets by just breathing normally.

That's why keeping a distance of 2m is a good idea, so most of the droplets will fall to the ground or onto a surface, before they can reach another person's nose, mouth and eyes.

It's also why washing your hands is a good idea, and not touching your face is a good idea, because those droplets rest on the surfaces one might just have touched with one's hands, and the virus can live some hours, up to some days, on a surface.

And it is why wearing a mask is a good idea, to filter at least some of the droplets on their way in, or out, and then dispose of the paper of the mask. Then wash your hands. For a good article on the science on masks, see https://www.englishforum.ch/3165053-post52.html
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  #58  
Old 30.03.2020, 09:41
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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In a world that is already dangerously overpopulated.
It's not though.
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  #59  
Old 30.03.2020, 09:59
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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It's not though.
OK, so thats you're opinion. GAIA disagrees
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Old 30.03.2020, 10:02
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

When radical anarchists are encouraging people to obey the state, you should stay the f home.
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