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View Poll Results: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement...
Go nowhere near far enough 12 15.79%
Don't quite go far enough 21 27.63%
Are appropriate 40 52.63%
Go a bit too far 2 2.63%
Go far too far 1 1.32%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 31.03.2020, 14:16
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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I think it is a mix of things again, and the mix is different for different countries, demographics, etc.

A small and poor place that I am from that doesn't have people to lose (not many kids are born there plus overloaded health system would of course mean loss of people of all categories not just at risk) cannot afford the laisez-faire approach: so measures are taken early, borders shut, edu and info distributed to people with facts (yes, masks stop the virus shedding, no, we don't have enough of them so make your own or don't leave the house). There are not that many CV myths there fed by media and populistic campaigns feeding of hysterics or panic are quickly identified. Skeptics.

What bewilders me that here in CH we can approach the whole situ as in S. Korea (tech and resources wise). But. The amount of private data being harvested (temps, movements, tests) for that is probably something that people would not put up with. Plus every canton is defending their autonomy here. If S. Korea did well in flatening the curve it was because it was anticipated, coordinated, synchronized and centrally controlled.

Why are all these death stats constantly being rubbed in to people's faces, media are having a field trip. The link between panic-fear-manipulation-desire to feel in control is probably turning against the media consumers.

Watching the curve is good but not if people lose their integrity by watching the curve so much to not pay attention to anything else, caving in panic and giving power to those who will not act in the communitie's interests.
Fully agree with you, and the last paragraph has been my thinking for a while (I just didn't voice it as people preferred to give in to the panic even around here, to an extent anyway).

From what I've observed, most people here seem to stick to the rules and they didn't have to compromise their entire freedom either (and I don't believe they will have to). It's barely worth running after 10 outliers in a population of 8.6m either, there's always a few that don't stick to what they're being told. For once, the fact that the Swiss as a group at least tend to be rule-following and law-abiding seems to work in our favor (a fact I will gladly remind people of next time they complain about this very characteristic ). As said, I believe our politicians have done a decent job so far and will not abuse this to push agendas they shouldn't be pushing - much contrary to many other countries right now.

But I fully acknowledge things are different elsewhere. Cultural elements are always immensely important and what works here wouldn't work elsewhere - and vice-versa. But we are not in an authoritarian regime (well, in some places it seems to be going in that direction), so there are limits as to what people will accept without it leading to social strife and unrest or worse.

I do believe that now some people start to move past their panic, it will become even more important to have a dialogue about what other implications this has had and will continue to have - on a small and large scale - without being shut down immediately. I haven't seen enough of that yet.
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  #102  
Old 31.03.2020, 16:41
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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As said, I believe our politicians have done a decent job so far and will not abuse this to push agendas they shouldn't be pushing.
They are risking a lot by that here. But employers are not. I fear for HR strategies that were not possible before, now getting a green light.

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But I fully acknowledge things are different elsewhere. Cultural elements are always immensely important and what works here wouldn't work elsewhere - and vice-versa. But we are not in an authoritarian regime (well, in some places it seems to be going in that direction), so there are limits as to what people will accept without it leading to social strife and unrest or worse.
Having lived through a bunch of regimes, I have to say that sadly, the perception of democracy/authoritarian approach/freedom is largerly a subjective feeling. We live in a free place that may be less free in fact than centrally ran places (thinking of data harvest and co-ordinated crisis management in S Korea). Whether our failure to manage crisis intelligently and preventatively is a sign of more liberty and democracy...I don't think so. I wouldn't be proud of it if mismanagement of this current crisis meant loss of life and folding businesses. If the lives are lost and could have been saved - it is mismanagement. If econony folds due to a complete hault, people get fired, taxes don't get paid and kids invested in - it is mismanagement. I don't think there is a "good way" to strike a balance. Sweden might be counting on outsourcing help later when other places are trying to recover after their curve peaked.
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  #103  
Old 01.04.2020, 10:00
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

There was a follow up article to the one that motivated the poll:

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society...gions/45647692

Switzerland is a melting pot of cultures from northern and southern Europe, says Swiss historian Olivier Meuwly. In German culture it is assumed that individual responsibility will lead to collective responsibility, says the historian, which is a strange idea for cultures from southern Europe where “order is supposed to come from above”, he recently told Le Temps.

Meanwhile, calls for a tighter lockdown seem to have vexed some Swiss-German papers. “The power of the French president fascinates all French-speaking politicians in Switzerland,” declared Tages-Anzeiger.

Never miss chance to take a jab on the guys of the other side of the röstigraben
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  #104  
Old 01.04.2020, 10:17
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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There was a follow up article to the one that motivated the poll:

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society...gions/45647692

Switzerland is a melting pot of cultures from northern and southern Europe, says Swiss historian Olivier Meuwly. In German culture it is assumed that individual responsibility will lead to collective responsibility, says the historian, which is a strange idea for cultures from southern Europe where “order is supposed to come from above”, he recently told Le Temps.

Meanwhile, calls for a tighter lockdown seem to have vexed some Swiss-German papers. “The power of the French president fascinates all French-speaking politicians in Switzerland,” declared Tages-Anzeiger.

Never miss chance to take a jab on the guys of the other side of the röstigraben
Well..

Would they understand better if he proclaimed himself a life-long tzar or called a Macron Task Force?

I think tolerance grows exponentially to the numbers we see every day. VD is seriously affected. I have never seen fewer people out of my windown here.
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  #105  
Old 01.04.2020, 17:50
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Re: Measures that limit one's personal freedom of movement

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Well..

Would they understand better if he proclaimed himself a life-long tzar or called a Macron Task Force?

I think tolerance grows exponentially to the numbers we see every day. VD is seriously affected. I have never seen fewer people out of my windown here.

I think the French are more familiar with Sun King. Tzar is a bit foreign.
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