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  #261  
Old 14.04.2020, 11:54
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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A hopelessly inefficient health system tied too tightly to middle-class employment. An ever deepening divide between the haves and the have-nots etc.etc Trump will do nothing to address these problems.
A system they "successfully" exported to most of Eastern Europe (and other places) too. EU was supposed to change this, but of course they preferred to maintain the status quo.
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Old 14.04.2020, 12:05
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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No need to be worried.

The Americans can fix this for themselves in November.
There are no amount of excuses in the world (vote rigging, fake news, the voting system, voter suppression, etc, etc) if they vote Trump in again, except that the American people want him in.
Brexit, , the will of the people. Trump, the American people want him in.
You have short memories. Hitler was elected and I think the comparison is warranted because there used to be a consensus in the libertarian west that democracy for all its shortcomings is something worth fighting for (as in two world wars) The present day republican party openly and unashamedly tramples on democratic principles in the pursuit of power.
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  #263  
Old 14.04.2020, 12:08
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Re: Slammer´s rambling musings

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Native Americans
Japan
Vietnam
Cambodia
Philippines
Guatemala
El Salvador
Palestine
Iraq
Aghanistan

Apart from the nearly nonstop killing since 9/11 almost 20 years ago, there's a longer list of wars by proxy from CIA backed coups etc to facilitating the support of maniacal dictators from central & south America to Africa & every corner of the globe that have perpetrated genocide with the tacit approval if not logistic support of the US. There isn't a country in history that has been involved with the taking of more innocent lives than the US - it's not an opinion, it's simply a fact (>20 million)
There may be taking of innoncent lives. But from the very start of that list its clear that this is not genocide, nor is it consistently the fault of the USA. Japan caused the death of its own citizens by its pig headed refusal to surrender and fighting to the last man on every last pacific island. The casualties involved in invading mainland Japan would have been unimaginable. The fact that innocent people died is horrific, but you are blaming the wrong country. The rest of the list (a couple of which I am sadly ignorant about) mostly follows the same logic. The US trying to take on nutjobs, psychos and dictators.

The US are far from perfect, and have made some big mistakes, but as a world superpower we couldn't ask for a much more benevolent force.
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  #264  
Old 14.04.2020, 12:09
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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You have short memories. Hitler was elected
Really? I seem to remember it was Hinenburg
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  #265  
Old 14.04.2020, 12:26
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Really? I seem to remember it was Hinenburg
OK thanks for the pedantic correction. Hindenburg appointed Hitler to be chancellor. The comparison is still valid. The Nazis trampled on german democracy as it existed at that time in a series of steps, many violent. Present day republicans need to be stopped before a similar process starts in the USA.
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Old 14.04.2020, 13:21
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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That part of you is really worrying, because it is a sentiment that one hears often. Support the old style republican party if you want to, but Trump supporters are dangerous mix who all think they can use him to achieve their own ends. I think they are kidding themselves. Trump has American blood on his hands, spilt within the USA. Not since the civil war has the USA been so divided. I grew up watching the Vietnam protests, Martin Luther King, civil right marches, Watergate........these are nothing to the problems facing the USA today..
Unfortunately that part is surfacing in many people who were openly against EU all along. I get it, we must stop Germany from bossing everyone around, but not with the price of actually wishing Trump and all the nationalistic parties to take over. If the R's came up with a different candidate, maybe it wouldn't have been a discussion about R's vs. Dems. (I added that because many people believe it's always a question of ideology here.....)
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  #267  
Old 14.04.2020, 13:30
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Brexit, , the will of the people. Trump, the American people want him in.
You have short memories. Hitler was elected and I think the comparison is warranted because there used to be a consensus in the libertarian west that democracy for all its shortcomings is something worth fighting for (as in two world wars) The present day republican party openly and unashamedly tramples on democratic principles in the pursuit of power.
The biggest attempt to trample on democracy has been the Russia inquiry and President Trump's impeachment. They're as bad as each other!
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  #268  
Old 14.04.2020, 14:51
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Re: Slammer´s rambling musings

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there's a longer list of wars by proxy from CIA backed coups etc to facilitating the support of maniacal dictators from central & south America
In South America there are just corrupt politicians, with the exception of Venezuela and maybe a bit of Colombia...

USA could see an exit of the "crisis" by invading Venezuela, killing Maduro and in exchange of getting the oil - that they were currently buying - for free.
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  #269  
Old 14.04.2020, 14:56
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Re: Slammer´s rambling musings

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In South America there are just corrupt politicians, with the exception of Venezuela and maybe a bit of Colombia...

USA could see an exit of the "crisis" by invading Venezuela, killing Maduro and in exchange of getting the oil - that they were currently buying - for free.
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  #270  
Old 14.04.2020, 15:05
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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OK thanks for the pedantic correction. Hindenburg appointed Hitler to be chancellor. The comparison is still valid. The Nazis trampled on german democracy as it existed at that time in a series of steps, many violent. Present day republicans need to be stopped before a similar process starts in the USA.
It really isn't though.
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  #271  
Old 14.04.2020, 15:12
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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The biggest attempt to trample on democracy has been the Russia inquiry and President Trump's impeachment. They're as bad as each other!
Trump was impeached because he was trying to manipulate for the sake of his own election. The Constitution specifically states that US Presidents shall be held accountable for bribery. "Investigate my political opponent and his son and you can have your money." But you don't consider that to be trampling on democracy?

Article II, Section 4 of the US Constitution: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
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  #272  
Old 14.04.2020, 15:25
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Trump was impeached because he was trying to manipulate for the sake of his own election. The Constitution specifically states that US Presidents shall be held accountable for bribery. "Investigate my political opponent and his son and you can have your money." But you don't consider that to be trampling on democracy?

Article II, Section 4 of the US Constitution: "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
So compelling was the evidence that it fell at the first hurdle what a waste of time! Instead of trying to oppose President Trump in a sensible and rational manner, the Democrats have just played into his hands of resorting to hysteria, conspiracy theory and ridiculous Nazi comparisons. The result is the best candidate they could muster for November is a seemingly senile, ancient pervert. President Trump may as well stand unopposed. Anyway, I won't take this discussion further away from it's topic. Go over to the sewer that is the President Trump discussion, I stay well away from that though!
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  #273  
Old 14.04.2020, 17:42
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Re: Slammer´s rambling musings

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In South America there are just corrupt politicians, with the exception of Venezuela and maybe a bit of Colombia...
Uhm what?!
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  #274  
Old 14.04.2020, 17:54
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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It really isn't though.
I know. There is a sort of "It cannot happen here and now" attitude. But it just not worth the risk. Europe has a serious problem with the far right. Anglo-Saxons tend to dismiss comparisons between todays right and the Nazis as somehow far-fetched delusions of the left. When you look at the blame game played by Trump, the xenophobia etc it is not a healthy mind-set. My friends and family are probably 70:30 split against Trump, I wouldn't consider any of them to be fascists but it doesn't take away from the unease.
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  #275  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:08
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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It really isn't though.
How is it not?

I most certainly wouldn't throw the average Republican in the same category as Nazis, I wouldn't even assume they're all right-wing, some or even most are certainly very close to the center or in the center with a slight tendency towards the right. That in itself is not a problem at all.

However, I most definitely would call Trump a would-be authoritarian who in any other setting would indeed not just be a would-be, but an actual dictator. I've said this from day 1 and was and still am absolutely horrified that he was elected. He proved this yet again yesterday - "I have full authority above everyone else". No, you do not and this is not North Korea. He is a threat for the Western world (and thus the world at large) as we know it.

And to compare the situation we are currently facing with what we had 100 years ago is really not that far off. Some external but not man-made (that we know of) threat to the world at large, resulting in economic semi-disaster in places and large-scale unemployment, which directly led to severe tipping towards the right, a rise of nationalism and eventually WWII. Sorry, there are definite parallels to what is going on.

I've posted this before, weeks ago even, and some may think I'm being dramatic, but I don't care: when I see what's happening in so-called democracies right now, I'm deeply concerned. Argentina throwing thousands of people into prison because they broke curfew, Philippines shooting people who break curfew, Trump's authoritarian ambitions, Hungary becoming a de facto dictatorship, and seemingly-smaller-but-also-not-really-smaller situations like permission slips to leave the house to complete surveillance under "corona laws" with no end date etc. That is a direct undermining of democracy and not just something to brush off, but roughly everyone should be most concerned what that may indeed lead to.
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  #276  
Old 14.04.2020, 21:56
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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How is it not?
Mostly because Trump hasn't invaded other countries to ethnically replace people, hasn't started a world war nor has he genocided millions in death camps.

Trump may have authoritarian tendencies but to compare him to Hitler, or Republicans to Nazis, is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
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  #277  
Old 14.04.2020, 22:02
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

To the original thread topic, I really hope (but wouldn't be surprised) if it was very much like Christmas day - Everyone walks around a bit more merry and friendly then normal, a week later once back at work, they won't say hello to that stranger they walk past/wish someone well that they don't know in passing etc... I'm sure in terms of Economy some big things may happen, but on the Social level, I really hope people switch on more positivity and appreciation. Slavoj Zizek says words to the effect of 'What's interesting isn't so much the Revolution, but the day/s afterwards'.
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  #278  
Old 14.04.2020, 23:37
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Mostly because Trump hasn't invaded other countries to ethnically replace people, hasn't started a world war nor has he genocided millions in death camps.
Well, Germany was a liberal democracy pre-WWII too. Until one Adolf came. I'm sure no one would have expected that either at the time an yet all above happened.

Regardless:

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Trump may have authoritarian tendencies but to compare him to Hitler, or Republicans to Nazis, is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.
Agree and I wouldn't go that far either. For now anyway
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  #279  
Old 15.04.2020, 14:30
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

I was thinking earlier (I know, it does happen from time to time) that one huge benefit, especially for Switzerland will be the optimization of the service industry. The entire service segment of this economy is rather inchoate, especially when compared to other places; this crisis has forced many restaurants and retailers to improve their online service. I believe that this upward trend will remain stronger than during pre-corona days, as people were sort of forced to using that route.
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Old 15.04.2020, 17:14
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

Whilst I'm unsure if President Trump's decision to cut funding is the right way to reform the WHO, it hopefully will result in some sort of reform. There's no doubt in my mind that the WHO failed in their primary purpose of existence.

One hopes that a long hard look will be taken at such international organisations. The money that gets thrown at them with zero accountability has been happening for too long. And if you think the WHO is bad, I suggest you don't start looking into what the UN do!
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