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Old 30.03.2020, 16:02
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Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

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Many Swiss ski resorts won’t be offering any compensation to season pass holders,

Among those who’ve confirmed there will be no extensions or vouchers are Davos/Klosters, the Jungfrau region and Zermatt.

The SonntagsZeitung newspaper reports a co-operation deal was agreed between the mountain lift companies NOT to pay any money back to pass holders.
How is this ‘co-operation deal’ legal. Competitors should not be discussing, let alone agreeing such things.
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Old 30.03.2020, 16:13
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

As a season pass holder, I'm fully ok with this. I prefer long-term financial stability for my home ski area to them having to pay for circumstances out of their control (which would also impact the local communities).
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Old 30.03.2020, 16:19
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

You know cartels are legal in Switzerland?
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Old 30.03.2020, 16:22
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

To be honest I'm not too bothered either. Was skiing until 14 March which was most of the season. Season pass holders take some degree of risk each year with the season and weather conditions, sometimes it starts early or later, ends early or later, depending on the weather. At most, likely missed two weeks with mechanical assistance, but randonnee is possible.
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Old 30.03.2020, 16:32
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

I look at it that I paid for the pass long ago and I have had good use of it. The lift companies may also have used the income from season passes in the general running of their businesses. Why should they either find the money to repay people or give away next year's needed revenues with vouchers. All is does is harm local communities who benefit from the many visiting the area and using those lifts
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Old 30.03.2020, 16:39
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

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You know cartels are legal in Switzerland?
And flourishing!
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Old 30.03.2020, 16:39
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

I’m not objecting to them deciding to do this independently. I am objecting to them getting together in a smoked filled room and agreeing it.

While cartels may be legal here, I can’t see this business being allowed to make this decision, at least unsupervised by regulators.
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Old 30.03.2020, 16:59
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

These are extraordinary times and this is not their normal business practise. They are not manipulating the market for gain. It is far better for ALL the local communities that the lifts have come to a consensus in these unique conditions and makes it a level playing field for next year.

We have no idea of the finances of the various lift companies. Resort A might be better placed to afford it compared to Resort B. Many people have more than one season pass to different resorts. If Resort A is effectively offering a discount in the form of vouchers and Resort B cannot, it gives Resort A an advantage over their competitors next year, especially if people decide to only buy one pass rather than several. Reduced passes in resort B hurts the local community
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Old 30.03.2020, 17:03
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

I don’t agree. They have everything to gain, while consumers do not benefit in any way. If they need financial help, well there are other ways to secure it than to dip their fingers into consumer’s pockets.
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Old 30.03.2020, 17:20
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

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These are extraordinary times and this is not their normal business practise. They are not manipulating the market for gain. It is far better for ALL the local communities that the lifts have come to a consensus in these unique conditions and makes it a level playing field for next year.

We have no idea of the finances of the various lift companies. Resort A might be better placed to afford it compared to Resort B. Many people have more than one season pass to different resorts. If Resort A is effectively offering a discount in the form of vouchers and Resort B cannot, it gives Resort A an advantage over their competitors next year, especially if people decide to only buy one pass rather than several. Reduced passes in resort B hurts the local community
No, they are businesses. MagicPass, which we bought for skiing until 2nd May, did not offer a refund OR a reduction off next years pass, using the line that basically you should have been happy to ski so cheaply for the past year. These are private companies, not charities. We have no understanding of the insurance situation at the company level, they could well have been compensated for all we know. If they made a significant profit during the year, why are they not redistributing some of that profit in terms of compensation. Using the line "we wont compensate you because it happened to everyone" while conveniently making no statement or change on their profit or loss for the year, is not a fair way to deal with your customers.
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Old 30.03.2020, 18:09
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

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I’m not objecting to them deciding to do this independently. I am objecting to them getting together in a smoked filled room and agreeing it.

While cartels may be legal here, I can’t see this business being allowed to make this decision, at least unsupervised by regulators.
Well the starting point would be: are you legally entitled to a refund? If not then I don't see that you have any right to claim they are doing something illegal.
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Old 30.03.2020, 18:25
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

If that was the case, why did the see it necessary to meet and agree that they all would move in lockstep.

They are both competitors and in dominant positions in their markets.

This behaviour should not be permitted. Again, I am not saying their actions are not good ones giving the circumstances, but to sit down and agree that they would all do the same thing ...

Rip-off Switzerland.
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Old 30.03.2020, 18:41
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

What they've decided seems to make sense to me.

In some areas, a competitor is only an "enemy" to be triumphed over and potentially eliminated. In this particular sector, however, perhaps they can't diversify as much as others. The mountains are where they are, and the lifts are built where they're built. Those competitors actually need one another, to each help to keep the finances, if possible, more or less stable (which may also include buying one another out, in the background, who knows). They're businesses, and will do what it takes to survive and be profitable, including, if need be, going into cooperation with one another.

From the perspective of anyone who might like to go skiing again in that general region, next year, surely it's preferable for the area to remain more or less stable, too?

If I've understood you correctly, bowlie, it seems to me that the very notion that they have met, discussed things, possibly pooling their skills towards dealing with a crisis, is what is bothering you. But would you feel like this if, say, five restaurants in the same town did the same (and you might have the end of a prepaid voucher in your wallet)? If I were a restaurant owner, I might find it a very useful exercise, to discuss strategies with others facing similar potential losses, and hoping to make it though to next season. Or the directors of a dozen provincial hospitals? Good stategy, could be.

The times are bewildering, and I observe that people who are potentially competitors, are calling one another up to ask each other about their strategies and methods of dealing with this unprecedented phenomenon.

Last edited by doropfiz; 30.03.2020 at 19:24. Reason: typo
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Old 30.03.2020, 19:03
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

I don't know if my gym will give a refund. If they don't, I don't mind if it means I've got a gym to go to after this.
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Old 30.03.2020, 19:18
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

Think about the poor ski instructors etc who lost a load of income. A friend of mine makes 420 francs a day (plus tips) during the last month of the season.

We've lost a couple of weeks' skiing - big deal!
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Old 30.03.2020, 19:35
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

You guys are missing the point. I agree that their decision is justified and makes sense for them and their employees.

What I do object to is they sat down in a ‘smoked filled room’ and agreed that they would all do the same thing!

Why did they do that? Why did the believe it was necessary that they all do the same thing?

Market forces, where every competitor has to look over their shoulder to see what their competitors are doing, is a very good thing. They can act and react based on their competitive concerns. Not based on a collusive agreement.

It is simply wrong that they can sit down and agree this.
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Old 30.03.2020, 19:45
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

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You guys are missing the point. I agree that their decision is justified and makes sense for them and their employees.

What I do object to is they sat down in a ‘smoked filled room’ and agreed that they would all do the same thing!

Why did they do that? Why did the believe it was necessary that they all do the same thing?

Market forces, where every competitor has to look over their shoulder to see what their competitors are doing, is a very good thing. They can act and react based on their competitive concerns. Not based on a collusive agreement.

It is simply wrong that they can sit down and agree this.
This is not about businesses but about communities.
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Old 30.03.2020, 19:50
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

I'm surprised you're surprised, bowlie. This is how the Swiss do things. Have a beer and/or wine and forget about it.
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Old 30.03.2020, 19:55
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

Lots of people visit Switzerland due to the whole mountain sector, it is a sector where one benefits by competitors also being healthy since only having 3 company's on 2 mountains is nog getting the tourists in, but dozens of companies on dozens of mountains will do that trick, and also there are tons of restaurants, shops and hotels among other companies depending on them. And OP might find it wrong, it is very normal for a sector and perfectly legal to come together to decide how to act in times like these.
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Old 30.03.2020, 20:07
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Re: Mountain Companies agree NO REFUNDS

Can any one of you tell me why they had to agree on this?
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