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  #21  
Old 21.04.2020, 23:51
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Re: Driving Standards

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I may be walking into a minefield here but wouldn't it be quicker to walk? 600m? Certainly cheaper.
Thats why you wouldn't want to walk, minefields.

For me the border for daily is about a km for walking onto cycling
5 k for bike onto car.
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Old 22.04.2020, 00:46
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Re: Driving Standards

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There's a learning curve. Took me a while to get over the Germanic way of doing roundabouts - like most BMW drivers in the UK, you don't indicate except when you leave the roundabout. Sometimes. If you feel like it. and if your BMW has the "indicators" optional feature.
There is a chance I might get a job that I will need to commute by car too, I don’t have a car but my fiance does and hardly uses it so had offered, if I pass the 2nd interview, that I can have his car in the week.

I am nervous because a) people drive on the wrong side here, b) I have not driven in a while, c) I used to drive manual 1/1.2 litre Vauxhall Nova/Corsa and his is a bigger automatic car d) it is a BMW and expensive and big.

He let me drive it to the shop today, going OK, side roads mainly... brake is more sensitive and I hate automatics.

We got to a roundabout, I was meant to turn back on the road so I indicated left and he freaked out “don’t indicate yet!!!” I had NO idea that one does not inform the other drivers of where you will place yourself to go round a roundabout. Plus.... using indicates on a BMW is freaky enough I guess.
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Old 22.04.2020, 08:10
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Re: Driving Standards

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We got to a roundabout, I was meant to turn back on the road so I indicated left and he freaked out “don’t indicate yet!!!” I had NO idea that one does not inform the other drivers of where you will place yourself to go round a roundabout. Plus.... using indicates on a BMW is freaky enough I guess.
Indicating right before leaving the roundabout, and preferably just after the last exit is mandatory*

*Note the timing. Why people here think it's okay to indicate right after they have just actually left the roundabout is beyond me - how does that benefit anyone?

Indicating left is okay too and helps improve traffic flow (which is why roundabouts were designed in the first place) but not mandatory -so people don't do it.

My Swiss wife (who learnt to drive in the U.K.) says I shouldn't indicate left as Swiss people are confused enough about roundabouts and seeing someone indicate left could possibly confuse them more.

I originally thought that there was no indicating left (for the third or fourth exit) was because people were lazy but I've talked to a few Swiss about this and they really do not understand the concept of roundabouts.

That's my roundabout rant.
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Old 22.04.2020, 08:21
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Re: Driving Standards

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There is a chance I might get a job that I will need to commute by car too, I don’t have a car but my fiance does and hardly uses it so had offered, if I pass the 2nd interview, that I can have his car in the week.

I am nervous because a) people drive on the wrong side here, b) I have not driven in a while, c) I used to drive manual 1/1.2 litre Vauxhall Nova/Corsa and his is a bigger automatic car d) it is a BMW and expensive and big.

He let me drive it to the shop today, going OK, side roads mainly... brake is more sensitive and I hate automatics.

We got to a roundabout, I was meant to turn back on the road so I indicated left and he freaked out “don’t indicate yet!!!” I had NO idea that one does not inform the other drivers of where you will place yourself to go round a roundabout. Plus.... using indicates on a BMW is freaky enough I guess.

Had the exact same "shouting" with my German girlfriend. She lost it when I first indicated left to go on the third exit on a roundabout. Almost as if I was trying to cause an accident, then got told I would get fined...


I didn't believe her at first, but upon looking it up, it seems like indicating left to say that you will stay on the roundabout is not done in Germany.
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Old 22.04.2020, 08:24
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Re: Driving Standards

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Had the exact same "shouting" with my German girlfriend. She lost it when I first indicated left to go on the third exit on a roundabout. Almost as if I was trying to cause an accident, then got told I would get fined...


I didn't believe her at first, but upon looking it up, it seems like indicating left to say that you will stay on the roundabout is not done in Germany.

EDIT: Forgot to post this:
https://www.yumpu.com/de/document/re...ossar-smallpdf

interesting pamphlet about roundabouts (in German). The funny part is, look up "round intersections" in Germany... they are like roundabouts, but without a sign stating that they are a roundabout... so they aren't a roundabout.
(last image on this page) https://routetogermany.com/drivingin...dabout%20rules
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Old 22.04.2020, 09:04
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Re: Driving Standards

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interesting pamphlet about roundabouts (in German). The funny part is, look up "round intersections" in Germany... they are like roundabouts, but without a sign stating that they are a roundabout... so they aren't a roundabout.
(last image on this page) https://routetogermany.com/drivingin...dabout%20rules
Do any of these still exist I wonder? This used to be the rule in France but they changed years ago once they realised it's a fantastically stupid idea (imagine 2 or more cars from each direction - the roundabout immediately jams up because everyone has to wait for other cars to join who in turn can't join coz the roundabout is full). At least in France I think they have changed them all now.

But as for signalling left on roundabouts - what is the point? As far as other vehicles are concerned only two things matter. Either you are leaving at the next exit - therefore signal right - or you are not in which case a no signal means you are staying on.

The exception would be UK mini-roundabouts, but these don't exist here AFAIK.
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Old 22.04.2020, 09:31
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Re: Driving Standards

Signalling left would tell oncoming traffic and traffic from your right that you are about to pass in front of them (with the right of way). At one large one in Nyon I signal left, even though I am taking the second exit, to tell the traffic from the right that I am crossing their path. (As I pass the 1st exit I quickly change the signal to right - telling the oncoming traffic that I am exiting and will not be crossing in front of them)

If EVERYONE signalled their intentions, rather than what they are doing, or just did, you could cut congestion significantly.
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Old 22.04.2020, 09:31
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Re: Driving Standards

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Do any of these still exist I wonder? This used to be the rule in France but they changed years ago once they realised it's a fantastically stupid idea (imagine 2 or more cars from each direction - the roundabout immediately jams up because everyone has to wait for other cars to join who in turn can't join coz the roundabout is full). At least in France I think they have changed them all now.

But as for signalling left on roundabouts - what is the point? As far as other vehicles are concerned only two things matter. Either you are leaving at the next exit - therefore signal right - or you are not in which case a no signal means you are staying on.

The exception would be UK mini-roundabouts, but these don't exist here AFAIK.
Well, there's one roundabout at Matran where it's vital people signal they're going left because both lanes leading into it can turn left. I think they changed it because it's single lane until you're fairly close to the roundabout itself which gums up the traffic flow. But it's bloody dangerous since not everyone signals they're going left, but also because people then often switch to the right lane coming off of it so they don't end up in the motorway only lane. If you're not paying attention that there's a car on the right of you when exiting then you're likely to hit them.
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Old 22.04.2020, 09:36
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Re: Driving Standards

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Do any of these still exist I wonder? This used to be the rule in France but they changed years ago once they realised it's a fantastically stupid idea (imagine 2 or more cars from each direction - the roundabout immediately jams up because everyone has to wait for other cars to join who in turn can't join coz the roundabout is full). At least in France I think they have changed them all now.
I met one in Austria, I was suprised when a driver stopped on a "roundabout" and kept gesturing at me to go on. I was talking to someone about it later and they said that that is not a true roundabout as there is no yield sign for those entering. Interesting, but I've only seen the one and it was in a small countryside town.
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Old 22.04.2020, 09:49
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Re: Driving Standards

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I met one in Austria, I was suprised when a driver stopped on a "roundabout" and kept gesturing at me to go on. I was talking to someone about it later and they said that that is not a true roundabout as there is no yield sign for those entering. Interesting, but I've only seen the one and it was in a small countryside town.
Actually if there is no roundabout sign then the roundabout is right before left.
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Old 22.04.2020, 10:07
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Re: Driving Standards

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Actually if there is no roundabout sign then the roundabout is right before left.
Yep, that's why he was gesturing me to go. Just a mental block in my head to entering a roundabout when there's already someone on it.

I was told to watch for the yield signs as the Austrians don't use a roundabout sign the same way the Swiss do, sometimes they have a warning sign with a roundabout a distance before it, then on the roundabout they just have yield signs. They don't have the Swiss blue plate on the roundabout.
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Old 22.04.2020, 10:14
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Re: Driving Standards

I don't know but the accidents I saw in CH past my 15 years here were mostly on the roundabouts. I thought they were supposed to make things safer. The worst least logical roundabout is back home, but it is so gigantic that people have the time they need to get out of potential confusion. En plus, they can always pull in the grassy center, where the road constructors put nothing, just in case.
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Old 22.04.2020, 10:25
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Re: Driving Standards

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Signalling left would tell oncoming traffic and traffic from your right that you are about to pass in front of them (with the right of way).
Not signaling still tells the one from the right that you will pass. So left signaling does not give further information to the person from the right.

Not signaling tells the one in front that you might pass. In many roundabouts visibily across is not given (actually on purpose) so that information is lost anyway.

Tom with numbers will groan, but in my opinion still the best and most simplest rule is to signal right as soon as you are past the exit before your exit. If you intend to take very first exit signal right from the beginning. And even with this rule you can still signal left if you wish but it is in most cases useless and and unnecessary step to remember. (Safe this super small English roundabouts which mostly only exists because there is no priority from the left.)

Even if you signal left which is your good right, please signal right that you will leave at the next exit as soon as possible. But as long as people are not signaling at all or only when they are already in the exit this discussion is a technical one at most.
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Old 22.04.2020, 10:28
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Re: Driving Standards

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I don't know but the accidents I saw in CH past my 15 years here were mostly on the roundabouts.
They are safer as accidents are less severe. The other option is to be t-boned by a car flying across the intersection with 60 km/h or more.
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Old 22.04.2020, 10:48
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Re: Driving Standards

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I met one in Austria, I was suprised when a driver stopped on a "roundabout" and kept gesturing at me to go on.
They just didn't want to be in front of you, that's all.
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Old 22.04.2020, 11:04
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Re: Driving Standards

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They just didn't want to be in front of you, that's all.
Them Swiss plates make people nervous alright, they excite the local constabulary though.
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Old 22.04.2020, 11:10
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Re: Driving Standards

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Not signaling still tells the one from the right that you will pass. So left signaling does not give further information to the person from the right.

Signalling left improves traffic flow as it is a positive, affirmative action.

Not signalling only tells the driver that you might turn left or you may have forgotten to signal right, or the most common action here, the driver does not signal right until they are actually turning off the roundabout - WTF is the point of doing that?

Driving should be about positive actions that are clear to every other road user.
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Old 22.04.2020, 11:13
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Re: Driving Standards

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They are safer as accidents are less severe. The other option is to be t-boned by a car flying across the intersection with 60 km/h or more.
There was an accident the other month near Lachen when a car drove over a roundabout at 60Kmh, went airborne and landed on top of a house.

I don't think he indicated left or right.
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Old 22.04.2020, 11:21
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Re: Driving Standards

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...Not signalling only tells the driver that you might turn left or you may have forgotten to signal right, or the most common action here, the driver does not signal right until they are actually turning off the roundabout - WTF is the point of doing that?...
Agreed that is where it falls down. But the rule is clear - you signal as soon as you have passed the previous exit (or before even entering if you're using the first exit).
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Old 22.04.2020, 11:22
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Re: Driving Standards

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There was an accident the other month near Lachen when a car drove over a roundabout at 60Kmh, went airborne and landed on top of a house.

I don't think he indicated left or right.
He was going a tad bit faster than 60 kmh, as he used the roundabout as a ramp and injected himself into the second story of a house. If I remember correctly, refugees were living there at the moment. Can you imagine, you're watching "Days of our lives" in peace and quiet thinking "ah, finally peace and quiet, this is so much better than Kabul" and whaam, a car flies into your kitchen, the apartment catches on fire and you're basically out on the street.

https://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/os...d15630588.html
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