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Old 22.04.2020, 11:27
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Re: Driving Standards

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I am nervous because a) people drive on the wrong side here,
So 65% of the worlds population drive on the wrong side.

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Old 22.04.2020, 11:33
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Re: Driving Standards

Anyway I completely understand your feeling. I have the same feeling like you with especially the roundabouts when I'm visiting the UK. I wonder how many of the accidents in roundabouts with regular vehicles happen do to people not used to drive on the specific side of the road. The number is probably surpringly high.
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Old 22.04.2020, 11:34
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Re: Driving Standards

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So 65% of the worlds population drive on the wrong side.

It's the wrong side for a motorcycle/bicycle or a horse, with the majority of people getting on and off from the left, this means you dissembark your horsepower into the traffic side and not the hard shoulder/breakdown lane/stable.
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Old 22.04.2020, 11:36
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Re: Driving Standards

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It's the wrong side for a motorcycle/bicycle or a horse, with the majority of people getting on and off from the left, this means you dissembark your horsepower into the traffic side and not the hard shoulder/breakdown lane/stable.
The most dangerous ones I've noticed, were always Brits in Volvos, on a visit to the continent, forgetting which lane to use.
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  #45  
Old 22.04.2020, 11:39
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It's the wrong side for a motorcycle/bicycle or a horse, with the majority of people getting on and off from the left, this means you dissembark your horsepower into the traffic side and not the hard shoulder/breakdown lane/stable.
Interesting, and yes, I think I tend to mount/dismount on the left side of my horse/cycle/motorbike as well, but I've no idea why. Is it possible, I wonder, that this is actually learnt behaviour _because_ of the riding on the left that I grew up with?

What say you, non-brits (,aussies, japanese, indian, etc. etc.) who learnt to drive/ride on the rhs of the road - do you also mount and dismount from the left?

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The most dangerous ones I've noticed, were always Brits in Volvos, on a visit to the continent, forgetting which lane to use.
Forgetting? Naah, they never gave it a thought in the first place.

Although TBF Volvos have largely been replaced in the british cultural consciousness by Audi drivers.
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  #46  
Old 22.04.2020, 11:48
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Re: Driving Standards

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What say you, non-brits (,aussies, japanese, indian, etc. etc.) who learnt to drive/right in the rhs of the road - do you also mount and dismount from the left?
In 95% I dismount from right. I found it more natural

btw. I still don't understand why signaling left would be helpful to anyone, except maybe to the car behind you, that you will move fast trough the roundabout? Others have to wait for you to empty the roundabout anyway. And for people not indicating right turn: it's more dangerous to indicate wrong right turn (too early) than not to indication it.
I am writing this as a motorbike rider (and also cyclist), I simply do not trust anyone in the car, doesn't matter which indicator she/he gives or gives not.

btw, few days ago I met this nice Bus station which looks very much like roundabout, when there is no bus stoping there
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  #47  
Old 22.04.2020, 12:03
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Re: Driving Standards

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In 95% I dismount from right. I found it more natural

btw. I still don't understand why signaling left would be helpful to anyone, except maybe to the car behind you, that you will move fast trough the roundabout? Others have to wait for you to empty the roundabout anyway. And for people not indicating right turn: it's more dangerous to indicate wrong right turn (too early) than not to indication it.
I am writing this as a motorbike rider (and also cyclist), I simply do not trust anyone in the car, doesn't matter which indicator she/he gives or gives not.
First, indicating left before the roundabout gives a positive message to someone approaching it on a subsequent road that you will be continuing round and that they will have to give way.

Indicating right before the roundabout allows other cars to make the decision to continue onto the roundabout much earlier.

In both cases the advantage is that a more informed driver can better plan their approach to the roundabout, avoiding unnecessary braking and improving traffic flow (and fuel usage). Of course they should still be ready to take action if you do something other than your signal implies, but being prepared to brake if something unexpected happens is surely much better than having to brake to a stop anyway because you don't have any information to go on?
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  #48  
Old 22.04.2020, 12:12
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Re: Driving Standards

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Interesting, and yes, I think I tend to mount/dismount on the left side of my horse/cycle/motorbike as well, but I've no idea why. Is it possible, I wonder, that this is actually learnt behaviour _because_ of the riding on the left that I grew up with?
I think it is a right handed left handed thing, I figure that's why they put the kickstand on that side as well. The only people I know who throw their left leg over a bicycle are left handed.

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In 95% I dismount from right. I found it more natural
By any chance, are you left handed?
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Old 22.04.2020, 12:18
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Re: Driving Standards

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By any chance, are you left handed?
Yes, I am wohoooooo first time that I found that I live in "left handed centric world" Sweet sweet revenge for all the painful scissors I had to use in my life.
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Old 22.04.2020, 12:21
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Re: Driving Standards

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the most common action here, the driver does not signal right until they are actually turning off the roundabout - WTF is the point of doing that?
They may be confused if they should indicate left, right, or not and simply fall back to not? Unfortunately, a driver which enters must always assume that a car which does not indicate might pass.

Here again my point: Before you add fancy things like left and right just to look that ALL driver using a roundabout do the effing bare basic: Indicate right as soon as possible and specially before you exit. Just hammer in this basic rule in all drivers mind: Indicate Before Your Exit. Four simple words which even the most dimwitted driver should be able to remember and act on.

This one simple rule alone makes a roundabout such a beauty full thing. Adding fancy left indicting might help a tiny bit in some circumstances. But overall good traffic flow does not rely on it. Indicating BEFORE your exit is all it takes to make a roundabout a smooth experience.

Once that has sunken in the collective mind you might add your fancy left indication. Better do not have high hopes as drivers are really dimwitted and cannot even remember and act on a such simple rule as: Indicate Before Your Exit.
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  #51  
Old 22.04.2020, 13:12
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Re: Driving Standards

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They may be confused if they should indicate left, right, or not and simply fall back to not? Unfortunately, a driver which enters must always assume that a car which does not indicate might pass.
.
Perhaps they lack the skills needed to drive a vehicle?
There are much more complex actions which a car driver needs to undertake to drive safely on the roads.

Even the TCS states that indicating left improves traffic flow.

People here simply don't do it because there are no legal repercussions if they dont.
It's the same with anything here. It's cultural.
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  #52  
Old 22.04.2020, 13:25
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Re: Driving Standards

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There are much more complex actions which a car driver needs to undertake to drive safely on the roads.
I'd prefer is drivers could safely overtake... The french are the most ambitous undertakering drivers I've seen.

I agree with the indicating left as giving more information to other people, but it should be clear to people that if you're not indicating to leave then don't pull out in front, as ASITUS says, it'd be better if people could even start following the law as is.
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Old 22.04.2020, 13:52
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Re: Driving Standards

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Tom with numbers will groan, but in my opinion still the best and most simplest rule is to signal right as soon as you are past the exit before your exit. If you intend to take very first exit signal right from the beginning.
I don't think anyone would disagree with you, but that's only part of the story. As you admit, not everyone does so, and with the best will in the world they never will. So there's always an ambiguity if someone doesn't signal, but at least if they are actually signalling left before, or on, the roundabout, then you can be safe in the assumption that they are not going to leave.

Why would anyone suggest that something that gives additional warning of your intentions to other road users could be anything other than a good thing?
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Old 22.04.2020, 14:00
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Re: Driving Standards

Which country has better 'driving standards' than Switzerland? Question addressed to all the moaners on this thread.
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Old 22.04.2020, 14:02
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Re: Driving Standards

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I don't think anyone would disagree with you, but that's only part of the story. As you admit, not everyone does so, and with the best will in the world they never will. So there's always an ambiguity if someone doesn't signal, but at least if they are actually signalling left before, or on, the roundabout, then you can be safe in the assumption that they are not going to leave.

Why would anyone suggest that something that gives additional warning of your intentions to other road users could be anything other than a good thing?
I think it changes the perspective from "why did you pull out in front of me, I wan't indicating to leave"
to
"I pulled out becuase you weren't indicating to continue"

I think the first is a more conservative/failsafe measure as the onus is on joining traffic to ensure they're joining safely. So even if the donkey on the roundabout does not signal there's less chance of an accident.

Whilst the second gives the joining traffic another signal to spot but potentially speeds up traffic as everybody can get a clearer picture as to what cars are doing.
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Old 22.04.2020, 14:11
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Re: Driving Standards

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People here simply don't do it because there are no legal repercussions if they dont..
There is. Or better there could be by the law and ordinance. Not indicating can be punished with a CHF 100 fine.


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So there's always an ambiguity if someone doesn't signal, but at least if they are actually signalling left before, or on, the roundabout, then you can be safe in the assumption that they are not going to leave.
There is no ambiguity. No indicator means they will stay in the roundabout. The ambiguity comes only into play because there are just to many morons not following the rules. The lack of safety comes from impatient driver which try to gamble if the non indicating car leaves or stays in the roundabout.

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Why would anyone suggest that something that gives additional warning of your intentions to other road users could be anything other than a good thing?
KISS. Make first sure that bare basic work, only than add the cherry on the top.
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Old 22.04.2020, 14:12
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Re: Driving Standards

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I think it changes the perspective from "why did you pull out in front of me, I wan't indicating to leave"
to
"I pulled out becuase you weren't indicating to continue"
I think that would be someone misunderstanding the whole point. Indicating like this is intended to help other predict your behaviour and plan their driving accordingly, but in no circumstances would/should the _lack_ of indication be taken as a positive intent to perform any manoeuvre.
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Old 22.04.2020, 14:20
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Re: Driving Standards

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Which country has better 'driving standards' than Switzerland? Question addressed to all the moaners on this thread.
According to the web:
  1. Micronesia. According to the WHO report, the Federated States of Micronesia has the safest roads on the planet, with 1.9 road deaths per 100,000 people, and only 2 total road deaths throughout 2015.
  2. Sweden. ...
  3. United Kingdom/Kiribati. ...
  4. San Marino. ...
  5. Switzerland. ...
  6. Netherlands. ...
  7. Maldives/Denmark. ...
  8. Singapore/Israel. ...
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Old 22.04.2020, 14:23
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Re: Driving Standards

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I think that would be someone misunderstanding the whole point. Indicating like this is intended to help other predict your behaviour and plan their driving accordingly, but in no circumstances would/should the _lack_ of indication be taken as a positive intent to perform any manoeuvre.
If it all worked it'd be fantastic, but the potential for misunderstanding is there. I think it's clearer to just have the "don't go until it's clear, and indicate when you leave". Helpful hints can be helpful but some people suffer from not understanding the basics so I've no hope of them being helped by extra bits.
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Old 22.04.2020, 14:25
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Re: Driving Standards

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I think the first is a more conservative/failsafe measure as the onus is on joining traffic to ensure they're joining safely. So even if the donkey on the roundabout does not signal there's less chance of an accident.

.

So why indicate left when pulling onto a motorway from a slip road?

It's obvious you're going to do that and not slow down and pull over for a picnic.

Why do cars have brake lights - when one puts on the brakes, the car slows down so why the 'unnecessary' red lamps to indicate the obvious?

Shall I go on?
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