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  #21  
Old 15.05.2020, 13:43
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

12th week WFH. I don't miss the commute
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  #22  
Old 15.05.2020, 14:01
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

WFH sucks.

Tom
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  #23  
Old 15.05.2020, 14:51
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

My OH was already permitted to do 80% of his hours from home under the terms of his employment contract, but he went to the office most days before the lockdown. Now he's only going in for a few hours a week to deliver essential code. It's only a few minutes away by bike or 4 stops on the tram. When we moved to this flat we furnished the spare bedroom as a studio room with desks for us and a sofabed for visitors.

When we had our own company in Scotland we worked from home for about 8 years, we only started renting a serviced office because we moved to a smaller house.
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  #24  
Old 15.05.2020, 14:57
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

WFH may suck for some but for many like myself, it has clear advantages, one of them being the saving in time, hassle and costs of the daily commute.

I can do everything from home that I did working from the office and I would argue that I do a better job as a result of having the luxury of a properly set up office room in my apartment with less distractions - effectively a spare bedroom / home office.

Of course it very much depends on the nature of the job but for those of us that are working in non client facing roles such as IT, admin, support services etc. it can obviously work well and tbh, many of us already worked typically 1 day a week from home before CV.

I would challenge and disagree with the comment made in a previous post (below) because of the expense, logistics and barriers currently in place that make that difficult and the fact that many of these roles in the financial and service industries here, access CID - Customer Identifying Data - which cannot be accessed or exported without waivers or exceptions, which are not the norm, outside of Switzerland.

“If your position can WFH 100% in CH, your position could equally be located somewhere cheaper (for multi-nationals obviously)”
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Old 15.05.2020, 15:05
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

I would love that, but my company seems to be the only big pharma one that doesn’t have a working from home program and have been trying to get people back into the office since April. For those who can, think of the positive impact on the environment, tired infrastructures and mental health if we could work 50% of our time from home.

We’ve already been outsourcing almost everything we can to India, I’m fairly sure this will continue until there is only big heads of the departments are left. But let’s all realize that most big multinational companies are based here for tax purposes and complete outsourcing of our jobs seems far fetched.
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Old 15.05.2020, 15:43
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

I would personally love to see companies activating full or 80% WFH for those who want but I don't see it happening tbh, especially due to the cross-border situation (e.g. Geneva). First there is this big elephant in the room: if an employee works more than 20% of his/her time in France the employer must pay social security contributions in France! Second, there is also the delicate issue of client data protection, particularly touchy in the banking world.
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  #27  
Old 15.05.2020, 15:56
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

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I would challenge and disagree with the comment made in a previous post (below) because of the expense, logistics and barriers currently in place that make that difficult and the fact that many of these roles in the financial and service industries here, access CID - Customer Identifying Data - which cannot be accessed or exported without waivers or exceptions, which are not the norm, outside of Switzerland.

“If your position can WFH 100% in CH, your position could equally be located somewhere cheaper (for multi-nationals obviously)”
It's getting like every post needs the addendum 'Usual caveats apply' or 'my opinions are a generalisation, exceptions will apply'
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  #28  
Old 15.05.2020, 16:02
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

The problem is that the topic isn’t a one way street for employees to have an easier life. A day or two from home for sure... but 80-100%? Question: if I as an employer find out that a job can be done well remotely... why should I pay Swiss salary levels?

Last edited by Treverus; 15.05.2020 at 19:23.
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  #29  
Old 15.05.2020, 16:38
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

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The problem is that the topic isn’t a one way street for employees to have an easier life. A day or two from home for sure... but 80-200%? Question: if I as an employer find out that a job can be done well remotely... why should I pay Swiss salary levels?
At the moment I am doing home office 80 - 90%

I guess the question is if they find out the job can be done well remotely by me, why should they risk finding someone in a different timezone who does not speak the same language who may or may not do it as well as me?

They are welcome to try of course but I also come into the office 1 to 2 days a week and that is not the same as working remote. So not quite as black and white as you put it.
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  #30  
Old 15.05.2020, 16:45
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

Although my OH is working from home it's not exactly quiet because he has a team meeting every morning and various team members contacting him during the day with troubleshooting issues, so it's like his colleagues are in the apartment with us. I have been doing online study courses since February and it's not easy even with headphones on. No peace for the wicked as they say!
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  #31  
Old 15.05.2020, 17:56
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

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Question: if I as an employer find out that a job can be done well remotely... why should I pay Swiss salary levels?
Hence the 100,000's of Indian IT guys supporting EU/USA companies from offhsore, or the 10,000's EE supporting the EU etc, etc.
Obviously works better if you already have a base in the foriegn clime and are of a size that can realise the benefit of doing it to dozens or hundreds of bodies.

Usual caveats apply etc, and Coronavirus can rock the boat somewhat.

Last edited by CodPeace; 15.05.2020 at 17:57. Reason: moare
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  #32  
Old 15.05.2020, 19:46
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

While the rest of CH was WFH, my daily commute by car was actually quite pleasant.
Real pity that traffic is getting back to normal.
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  #33  
Old 15.05.2020, 19:48
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

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OH's company has been encouraging people to work from home one day per week for a few years now. 'Twas billed as a 'work/life balance' thing, but the impetus was actually the need to jettison real estate. Working from home means cutting costs. Or shifting costs to the employee. ...
I don't know but I thought if your contract specified X amount from home that the employer had to cover some of the costs. Or do you just get to deduct 1 room of your rent of a 4.5 room flat (for example) on your taxes?
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  #34  
Old 15.05.2020, 19:58
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

As we were already partially working from home we have a dedicated room for work unlike most of people. I can imagine that people would like to create more comfort for themselves if indeed working from home for a longer while. That actually adds to costs, e.g. if you need a bigger apartment, furniture, better screens, etc. I've seen someone in our building ordering a printer for example.
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Old 15.05.2020, 20:00
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

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I don't know but I thought if your contract specified X amount from home that the employer had to cover some of the costs. Or do you just get to deduct 1 room of your rent of a 4.5 room flat (for example) on your taxes?
Those are real questions. Maybe as real as the use of technology, hardware and bandwidth for online working from home, it's not just rent. The accumulated costs aren't a joke, honestly. I think that attractive employers will want to stay attractive for valuable employees, so they will judge the risks in a constructive way and long term sustainability.

I read that managers worried about their staff at home losing their morale and productivity but it has proven to be the opposite, people worked too much at home and too long, so now managers worry about their people's burnout instead. I think attaching oneself to work has provided some comfort, feeling of control and a sense of normalcy. But maybe it is better to change the environment to separate more successfully one's personal and professional life.
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Old 15.05.2020, 20:05
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

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I guess the question is if they find out the job can be done well remotely by me, why should they risk finding someone in a different timezone who does not speak the same language who may or may not do it as well as me?
Most of Europe is in the same time-zone. Most of IT people will for example speak rather good English (much more understandable to me than most of those from India).

So even though not all jobs should suddenly disappear, the trend may be going in that direction. Maybe world-wide wage equalisation is not a bad thing. It may also lead to less crowded city-centres as less need to not be far away from your workplace. Sure, you may still want to be close to restaurants, to your kid's school, etc. but the pressure should ease.
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Old 15.05.2020, 20:09
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

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Most of Europe is in the same time-zone. Most of IT people will for example speak rather good English (much more understandable to me than most of those from India).

So even though not all jobs should suddenly disappear, the trend may be going in that direction. Maybe world-wide wage equalisation is not a bad thing. It may also lead to less crowded city-centres as less need to not be far away from your workplace. Sure, you may still want to be close to restaurants, to your kid's school, etc. but the pressure should ease.
I cannot imagine the city centers with little shops, services, cafes and restos to survive without those who spend time and money there at lunch times. It will start to resemble residencies and suburbs with giant malls on the outskirts and nothing else.
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  #38  
Old 15.05.2020, 20:15
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

Having just spent about 5 million moving offices from 10 floors to 2 floors in the new LA of Geneva, it seems impossible for more than 25% of the work force to go back.

The latest is June but near managers is Sept but realistically I might be here for a couple of years ...

Then again, there maybe job cuts as remote = we can push these elsewhere ...

Not going to worry ... deal with it when and if it comes ..
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Old 15.05.2020, 20:17
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

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Most of Europe is in the same time-zone. Most of IT people will for example speak rather good English (much more understandable to me than most of those from India).


Language is in my experience the smallest issue with outsourcing.
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Old 15.05.2020, 20:30
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Re: Do you expect to wfh more often in future?

Yes but can those speak English really solve problems and be productive ...

The good news is I have a lot of interest by agencies and companies but will stay riding the same donkey for now ...
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