Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 31.05.2020, 10:31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 369
Groaned at 15 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,146 Times in 426 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Quote:
View Post
Thank you for the links, I meant to reply a few days ago. It's written even in the package leaflet supplied with the product. The problem is, imo, that even GPs rush nowadays to prescribe antidepressants. That should be done, imho, only by the specialists. Carefully. Medicine is both art and science. A good doctor knows a lot about pharmacology too. Back home in Romania they have to pass serious chemistry (among other subjects) exams for admission to medical school.
While I agree with you in principle, antidepressants have been designed for prescription by GP‘s because of a shortage of/reluctance to seek out care for mental health - stigma is still very strong, so it‘s a double edged sword. And in some cases, a GP may have more knowledge of a patient‘s affect. So damned if you do, damned if you don‘t.

At least in the US, all potential doctors have to pass organic chemistry, and whether you go into family practice or psychiatry, you both have pharmacology. But psychiatrists have more expertise in prescribing and side effects, obviously. But it‘s tough - it‘s all Self Reports and Observation.

I have a history of generalized anxiety and depression and have taken anti depressants for a long time. I was first diagnosed by my GP, but the right med was difficult to find. And in my case, no amount of Meditation, exercising or happy thoughts would mitigate. Of course this was between 20 and 30 years ago. Finally, I found a psychiatrist who helped me figure out the right combo. But I was lucky - the guy was good and I was able to see him on an ongoing basis for a while.

It‘s also very true that many docs use mental health as a fallback when they can‘t figure it out. It‘s a shame patients who feel shitty have to advocate for themselves so much. It‘s exhausting, frustrating and can be terrifying.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank ennui for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 31.05.2020, 18:47
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,605
Groaned at 77 Times in 74 Posts
Thanked 17,460 Times in 7,860 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Quote:
View Post
While I agree with you in principle, antidepressants have been designed for prescription by GP‘s because of a shortage of/reluctance to seek out care for mental health - stigma is still very strong, so it‘s a double edged sword. And in some cases, a GP may have more knowledge of a patient‘s affect. So damned if you do, damned if you don‘t...

It‘s also very true that many docs use mental health as a fallback when they can‘t figure it out. It‘s a shame patients who feel shitty have to advocate for themselves so much. It‘s exhausting, frustrating and can be terrifying.
At least in the USA, insurance coverage for mental health is often inadequate. Insurance will cover pills but not necessarily therapy sessions with a mental health professional. Sometimes multiple tests to get to the bottom of the issue also aren't covered if the GP says it's "just" depression.

As for patients having to advocate for themselves, I find doctors in the States to be more receptive than here. I consider myself to be a fairly informed patient in most circumstances, and I've found Swiss doctors are taken aback when I have information they think I shouldn't. As if we can't google and find published studies that then lead to informed questions?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 31.05.2020, 19:03
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 369
Groaned at 15 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,146 Times in 426 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Quote:
View Post
At least in the USA, insurance coverage for mental health is often inadequate. Insurance will cover pills but not necessarily therapy sessions with a mental health professional. Sometimes multiple tests to get to the bottom of the issue also aren't covered if the GP says it's "just" depression.

As for patients having to advocate for themselves, I find doctors in the States to be more receptive than here. I consider myself to be a fairly informed patient in most circumstances, and I've found Swiss doctors are taken aback when I have information they think I shouldn't. As if we can't google and find published studies that then lead to informed questions?
Coverage for mental health is less than fab here, unless you have supplemental. I‘m glad I’ve not needed much here also, because I can‘t do health care in German.

My GP is really cool - I bring her papers, send her links and she‘s fine with it all.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ennui for this useful post:
  #64  
Old 31.05.2020, 20:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,398
Groaned at 315 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 13,439 Times in 6,978 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Quote:
View Post
At least in the US, all potential doctors have to pass organic chemistry, and whether you go into family practice or psychiatry, you both have pharmacology. But psychiatrists have more expertise in prescribing and side effects, obviously. But it‘s tough - it‘s all Self Reports and Observation.
.
I think I have been a bit misread or made myself misunderstood here. Of course all doctors have to pass organic chemistry and pharmacology, GPs included, that wasn't my point. Back home in Romania is the same, don't think they don't learn the same things. When I talked about pharmacology I was referring to all doctors. But as you said, in your case it was a psychiatrist who found the best treatment plan, and my point was that a GP should focus on finding the real cause/diagnostic not to rush prescribing antidepressants.

There is an entire spectrum of depression and related mental illnesses and the psychiatrists have more experience with this sort of diagnostics and their treatment. That was said in the context of other people here saying there's no real need for antidepressants because there are 50% chances they won't work. Or have severe adverse effects.

Nothing against GPs, on the contrary. After all is a specialisation in itself. It doesn't require less school. They have a different approach, that was my point. But of course, when I have written my post I wasn't thinking of the stigma. You have a point here.

I am sorry if I didn't make myself clear, or maybe you misread me, I couldn't tell. I don't advocate against GPs. Absolutely not. GPs have to pass the whole horrific sets of exams, either in the USA, Romania or Switzerland....

I liked Ms.Doolittle's attitude too. She stood up for herself and asked for second opinion.

This. I have mentioned the specialists exactly because of this type of situations, and you confirmed my opinion.

Quote:
View Post
I was first diagnosed by my GP, but the right med was difficult to find. And in my case, no amount of Meditation, exercising or happy thoughts would mitigate. Of course this was between 20 and 30 years ago. Finally, I found a psychiatrist who helped me figure out the right combo. But I was lucky - the guy was good and I was able to see him on an ongoing basis for a while.

Last edited by greenmount; 01.06.2020 at 07:00. Reason: typos etc
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 31.05.2020, 20:49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Kt Zurich
Posts: 369
Groaned at 15 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,146 Times in 426 Posts
ennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond reputeennui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Quote:
View Post
I think I have been a bit misread or made myself misunderstood here. Of course all doctors have to pass organic chemistry and pharmacology, GPs included, that wasn't my point. Back home in Romania is the same, don't think they don't learn the same things. When I talked about pharmacology I was referring to all doctors. But as you said, in your case it was a psychiatrist who found the best treatment plan, and my point was that a GP should focus on finding the real cause/diagnostic not to rush prescribing antidepressants.

There is an entire spectrum of depression and related mental illnesses and the psychiatrists have more experience with this sort of diagnostics and their treatment. That was said in the context of other people here saying there's no real need for antidepressants because there are 50% chances they won't work. Or have severe adverse effects.

Nothing against GPs, on the contrary. After all is a specialisation in itself. It doesn't require less school. They have a different approach, that was my point. But of course, when I have written my post I wasn't thinking of the stigma. You have a point here.

I am sorry if I didn't make myself clear, or maybe you misread me, I couldn't tell. I don't advocate against GPs. Absolutely not.
I admit I have written my post very fast, didn't phrase it as good as I should have done it. No, GPs have to pass the whole horrific sets of exams, either in the USA, Romania or Switzerland....

I liked Ms.Doolittle's attitude too. She stood for herself and asked for second opinion.
Sorry I misunderstood. You‘re right, too - I think in many cases psychiatrists will do a better job for mental health issues. It does seem that in some cases, though, doctors are too quick to assign complex symptoms to mental illnesses. Or they just don‘t know. So it is important to stand up for yourself, like Mrs D. You are the expert on yourself.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ennui for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 31.05.2020, 21:11
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 195
Groaned at 31 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 183 Times in 105 Posts
NotSwissEnough has annoyed a few people around hereNotSwissEnough has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Quote:
View Post
Coverage for mental health is less than fab here, unless you have supplemental. I‘m glad I’ve not needed much here also, because I can‘t do health care in German.
Delegated psychotherapy is covered by basic insurance. You should be covered.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotSwissEnough for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 31.05.2020, 21:14
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Zurich
Posts: 195
Groaned at 31 Times in 20 Posts
Thanked 183 Times in 105 Posts
NotSwissEnough has annoyed a few people around hereNotSwissEnough has annoyed a few people around here
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Quote:
View Post
I've known several cases where depression was the first diagnosis, and it turned out to be a tumour. Of course, most diagnoses of depression are depression, so no-one panic - but it is something to bear in mind.
I had severe iron deficiency about 8 years ago that my doctor kept pestering me was depression. I went doctor shopping until one did blood work and my hemoglobin was 9, feritin at 2. A few infusions later, my "depression" was gone. A good psychiatrist will runs bloodwork before prescribing anything.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotSwissEnough for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 31.05.2020, 21:45
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,665
Groaned at 144 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 6,726 Times in 2,627 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Quote:
View Post
I had severe iron deficiency about 8 years ago that my doctor kept pestering me was depression. I went doctor shopping until one did blood work and my hemoglobin was 9, feritin at 2. A few infusions later, my "depression" was gone. A good psychiatrist will runs bloodwork before prescribing anything.
Something a bit similar happened to me (I think I may have mentioned it a few weeks ago here but can't remember). I was sent to see a psychiatrist for depression about a year after my son was born. The psychiatrist talked to me for a few minutes and said I had post-partum depression and that he wanted to prescribe an anti-depressant for me (which I wasn't too keen on the idea of). Then he happened to glance down at my blood work report, which I had brought with me, and saw that my iron level was a score of 38 (which my house doctor had thought was fine). The psych. said women's levels should be at least 50. He gave me two iron infusions and I felt like a completely new and different person afterward. With yours being so extremely low, I'm not surprised at all that you felt so much better afterward as well.

Someone mentioned above that doctors don't seem very comfortable with the idea of their patients looking up their symptoms, etc. on the internet, and my house doctor is the same way. But it was through the internet that I realized it was my corticosteroid inhaler (for asthma) that was literally making me crazy -- due to raising my cortisol levels (stress hormone) so drastically. I told my doctor about it and she acted like that couldn't be the cause of it. But sure enough, as soon as I demanded to change to a different inhaler, my mood and behavior normalized again. I think it's very important for people to try to educate themselves and not rely on their doctors for everything, because sadly, there are a lot of very apathetic doctors out there who basically just view their patients as a means of earning an income.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Pancakes for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 01.06.2020, 17:02
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,398
Groaned at 315 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 13,439 Times in 6,978 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Quote:
View Post
Something a bit similar happened to me (I think I may have mentioned it a few weeks ago here but can't remember). I was sent to see a psychiatrist for depression about a year after my son was born. The psychiatrist talked to me for a few minutes and said I had post-partum depression and that he wanted to prescribe an anti-depressant for me (which I wasn't too keen on the idea of). Then he happened to glance down at my blood work report, which I had brought with me, and saw that my iron level was a score of 38 (which my house doctor had thought was fine). The psych. said women's levels should be at least 50. He gave me two iron infusions and I felt like a completely new and different person afterward. With yours being so extremely low, I'm not surprised at all that you felt so much better afterward as well.
.
Thank you for sharing your experiences here, Pancake. I wouldn't normally quote a very personal comment but I think I have to reiterate my opinion about GPs or family doctors. Normally, he or she should have been the one to rule out your iron deficiency and other things that could cause certain symptoms. They too have all the knowledge, the tools and protocols to identify the right cause and make the right diagnostic. What I don't like here is that family doctors avoid giving you a diagnostic. It is a very different approach from back home, where family doctors are much more involved emotionally and professionally. And they earn a lot less, but that's neither here nor there.....

Quote:
View Post

Someone mentioned above that doctors don't seem very comfortable with the idea of their patients looking up their symptoms, etc. on the internet, and my house doctor is the same way. But it was through the internet that I realized it was my corticosteroid inhaler (for asthma) that was literally making me crazy -- due to raising my cortisol levels (stress hormone) so drastically. I told my doctor about it and she acted like that couldn't be the cause of it. But sure enough, as soon as I demanded to change to a different inhaler, my mood and behavior normalized again. I think it's very important for people to try to educate themselves and not rely on their doctors for everything, because sadly, there are a lot of very apathetic doctors out there who basically just view their patients as a means of earning an income.
I don't know anything about your type of insurance, but should you decide to change your doctor, do it. Find someone you are on the same page and can communicate better.

I changed my family doctor, but OH felt comfortable with our old one. I just couldn't communicate with that old man. I found someone else, a female doctor my age or a bit older and we can actually talk. The kids and I have a different doctor than OH now, we're a funny family. So if you cling to your current one because the rest of the family is on his or her list, I don't know what to say, just give a chance to someone else.
Oh, have taken the same measure with my Gyn, I don't know how could I stand that military woman all along....maybe professionally she is super OK, but cold as ice.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 23.08.2020, 21:04
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Nyon
Posts: 21
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 3 Posts
NettieNel has no particular reputation at present
Re: Lockdown and Post Natal Depression

Just in case there is anyone out there looking for help for post natal depression or want to be pro-active before the birth to get in contact with a professional in case they feel they are at risk of PND. I was given the following contacts:

Lausanne and Geneva:
Genève
Centre Périnatal & Famille
www.cpbb-ge.ch

Lausanne
Centre Périnatal & Famille
www.cpbb-vd.ch

Fondation PROFA:
http://www.profa.ch/perinatalite/
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NettieNel for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Driving to the UK during the Lockdown lauratigger1 Daily life 42 27.04.2020 17:17
EF Chat - The Lockdown lost_inbroad Social events 23 21.03.2020 23:34
post-natal training famkorn Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 0 19.06.2016 23:47
Post Natal Depression + Supp Insurance Natja Family matters/health 6 08.10.2014 20:16
Pre/post natal yoga/pilates in wollerau, freienbach, pfaffikon areas? Prb Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 2 14.11.2013 08:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0