Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 18.06.2020, 08:17
omtatsat's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,795
Groaned at 2,025 Times in 1,116 Posts
Thanked 5,048 Times in 3,191 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
That's kind of my thought. Brand new, its a CHF1'000 unit, sold for CHF350. What's sillier is that when i came to pick it up, it was wrapped up in cellophane plastic, as if it was new. That's how it was pictured. I thought this unit WAS new, until he sent me a copy of the receipt which was from 2014.

That said, its possible a part failed while being in storage, or whatever, but even still - this isn't something you can really "test" before you get it home. I had to wait hours to know if it worked or not.

For what it's worth, I transported it carefully, never on its side, always upright, and waited a few hours before first use.
So how long was it in storage? Did the seller test it immediately before he sold it to you? But I would never buy a 6 year old used humidifier ( mould in machine )

Did you not ask him how old it was before you bought it? Did he sell it as new?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 18.06.2020, 10:46
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
So how long was it in storage? Did the seller test it immediately before he sold it to you? But I would never buy a 6 year old used humidifier ( mould in machine )

Did you not ask him how old it was before you bought it? Did he sell it as new?
He said about a year. He turned it on in front of me to show me it worked, and told me how well it worked when last used. It's a DEhumidifier, just saying.

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 18.06.2020, 12:27
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?



Looking at these pictures and the description, you could definitely see how I was duped into thinking this was a relatively new item.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 18.06.2020, 12:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,575
Groaned at 278 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 16,784 Times in 5,903 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Did you ask your money back by now?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 18.06.2020, 12:39
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
Did you ask your money back by now?
I have. No reply.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 18.06.2020, 12:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,182
Groaned at 855 Times in 598 Posts
Thanked 16,618 Times in 6,532 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
You're 100% right. When I showed up, it was wrapped in plastic. The seller unwrapped it, plugged it in to show me that it "worked". My mistake!

Unfortunately for me, it was from Tutti.

See, when I saw it wrapped, not only in the pictures but in person, one might assume its new. I've never seen someone wrap a used item in cellophane before.
Yeah, if it was wrapped up then maybe the seller actually got it from somewhere else before he sold it (ie: he was not an owner).

It may be an idea to contact Tutti.ch and explain the situation and see what advice they can give from previous historical cases.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 18.06.2020, 12:54
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
Yeah, if it was wrapped up then maybe the seller actually got it from somewhere else before he sold it (ie: he was not an owner).

It may be an idea to contact Tutti.ch and explain the situation and see what advice they can give from previous historical cases.
No, he's the original owner. He showed me and sent me the original receipt in his name.

I contacted Tutti, and besides giving me copies of the ad and photos, they said:

Quote:
Hello

Thank you for your message. I am sorry that this incident happened.

tutti.ch only provides the platform on which buyers and sellers can find each other. We do not participate in negotiations and potential arguments between buyers and sellers. In cases like this we cannot retrace at which point an article has been damaged, therefore we cannot takle action, as long as our rules have been applied to. I therefore recommend that you get in contact with your legal protection insurance and ask, what possibilities you have.

Thank you for your understanding. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 18.06.2020, 14:02
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Now I'm at the point where I'd like to get the police involved. The seller is completely ignoring me. Tutti will not give me the sellers phone number or address.

How am I supposed to report this to the police with nothing but a name?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 18.06.2020, 14:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,182
Groaned at 855 Times in 598 Posts
Thanked 16,618 Times in 6,532 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
Now I'm at the point where I'd like to get the police involved. The seller is completely ignoring me. Tutti will not give me the sellers phone number or address.

How am I supposed to report this to the police with nothing but a name?
Come on, you only just sent him an email a day or so ago, right? You need to give him at least a week to respond before escalating it further.

If you went to pick up the device and see it working then don't you already have his address?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 18.06.2020, 14:12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
Come on, you only just sent him a message... you need to give him at least a week to respond before escalating it further.

If you went to pick up the device and see it working then don't you already have his address?
Considering the seller responded to me with 15 minutes of my initial email about the sale, then proceeded to exchange 20+ e-mails with me the day I came to him with the issue, and 5 more emails the next day, and then complete radio silence for the last 5 days, something's up. I really don't see the benefit of waiting a week for a response at this point.

The seller had the item at his place of work, an apartment complex. I have no other information.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 18.06.2020, 14:20
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,182
Groaned at 855 Times in 598 Posts
Thanked 16,618 Times in 6,532 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
Considering the seller responded to me with 15 minutes of my initial email about the sale, then proceeded to exchange 20+ e-mails with me the day I came to him with the issue, and 5 more emails the next day, and then complete radio silence for the last 5 days, something's up. I really don't see the benefit of waiting a week for a response at this point.

The seller had the item at his place of work, an apartment complex. I have no other information.
Ok, well this is again all new info with how long this has been going on and when you informed him it was broken.

I also do not think (without being a legal expert) it's a police matter as you cannot prove anything criminal has occurred, seems more like a civil dispute.

Did you ask for the advice of Tutti already to get their thoughts on how to proceed and if they can provide any support?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 18.06.2020, 14:36
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
Ok, well this is again all new info with how long this has been going on and when you informed him it was broken.

I also do not think (without being a legal expert) it's a police matter as you cannot prove anything criminal has occurred, seems more like a civil dispute.

Did you ask for the advice of Tutti already to get their thoughts on how to proceed and if they can provide any support?
From my understanding, I still need to file a police report to begin pressing charges. If this is not correct, I'm happy to learn.

Yes, check some of my above replies. Tutti can't help me. They won't give me the sellers contact info due to data protection laws, but will give it to police if asked by police - hence police report.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 18.06.2020, 14:53
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,182
Groaned at 855 Times in 598 Posts
Thanked 16,618 Times in 6,532 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
From my understanding, I still need to file a police report to begin pressing charges. If this is not correct, I'm happy to learn.

Yes, check some of my above replies. Tutti can't help me. They won't give me the sellers contact info due to data protection laws, but will give it to police if asked by police - hence police report.
I read that Tutti didn't give you the sellers number (understandable, though I am surprised you did not ask for his contact details when completing the sale), but I wondered if they could contact him on your behalf to mediate.

If not then sure, try the police and see what they say and let us know how it goes.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 18.06.2020, 14:55
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
I read that Tutti didn't give you the sellers number (understandable, though I am surprised you did not ask for his contact details when completing the sale), but I wondered if they could contact him on your behalf to mediate.

If not then sure, try the police and see what they say and let us know how it goes.
The seller was so quick to respond via e-mail, I didn't think to ask for the phone number. It wasn't needed, frankly.

Tutti basically told me to pound sand. They said:

Quote:
We do not participate in negotiations and potential arguments between buyers and sellers.
..and said so multiple times.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 18.06.2020, 15:14
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,182
Groaned at 855 Times in 598 Posts
Thanked 16,618 Times in 6,532 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

That sucks, truly a "buyer beware" situation. I always get a contact number in case of any problems, so next time be sure to do that if you use Tutti for items of significance again. Good luck and give us an update as to how it turns out if/when he responds.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 18.06.2020, 16:06
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Yay, news.

As soon as this issue arose, I got in touch with the manufacturer, and had a very nice hour-long chat. Great guy, we got along great.

The manufacturer called me back just now. The seller called them, instead of calling me. The seller is furious that I mentioned to him getting the police involved (despite that being exactly what I'd have to do to press charges in the matter).

The manufacturer told both of us that not only would they have to replace the refrigerant circuit, they'd also have to replace the compressor. CHF500 in total before shipping both ways. They could not tell either of us if this is something that happened pre-sale, in transit, or upon my arrival. Though, they said that if the seller only plugged in the device and saw the fan spin and heard the compressor kick on, you wouldn't be able to tell that there's an issue.

The gentleman from the manufacturer was quite pissed off himself at this point, telling me that it is not his job to be a mediator between the two of us (rightly so), that he's spent way too much time on this issue already (quite right), and that its between me and the seller at this point (absolutely). He sent me an e-mail documenting the issue and the associated costs with repair.

The seller told the manufacturer that he'd be willing to give me half back, CHF175.

At this point, the seller still has not returned my e-mail. For what it's worth, what pissed him off so much was this e-mail:

Quote:
Please, I'd like to get this worked out as amicably as possible. I'm extremely worried that I cannot contact you. The next steps, if I do not hear from you soon, is to get the cantonal police involved, and I really don't want to have to do that, but as it stands, you have CHF350 that belongs to me.

I would be extremely happy to have you speak to my wife via phone who speaks perfect Italian.
First, I don't want half. I want the full amount. The unit was handled with utmost care in transit, and this issue is not my fault. IMO, he needs to prove the item worked when he sold it to me -- but he can't, because it was wrapped in plastic.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 18.06.2020, 16:32
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,182
Groaned at 855 Times in 598 Posts
Thanked 16,618 Times in 6,532 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
IMO, he needs to prove the item worked when he sold it to me -- but he can't, because it was wrapped in plastic.
But... you said in the below quotes that he unwrapped it and tested it for you while you were there?

Quote:
View Post
You're 100% right. When I showed up, it was wrapped in plastic. The seller unwrapped it, plugged it in to show me that it "worked". My mistake!
Quote:
View Post
He turned it on, you could hear it working, but you dont see the effects for at least an hour or two. I couldn't really do that.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 18.06.2020, 16:42
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cagiallo
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
aixsyd has earned some respectaixsyd has earned some respect
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
But... you said in the below quotes that he unwrapped it and tested it for you while you were there?
Yes. That's right. I'll explain that to properly test a dehumidifier, it needs to run in a humid environment for at least an hour, if not more. He and I did not do that, as sitting and waiting in a stranger's place of work for an hour is just odd, and most of you wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have done that if I was told the unit is basically new and in new working order.

On top of it, you can't see the physical issue of it icing up unless you take off the cover (20 screws), which we wouldn't have done together either.

My point is that if this was wrapped in plastic for godknows how long before I bought it, there was no way for him to test it and say it's in perfect working condition.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 18.06.2020, 17:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,182
Groaned at 855 Times in 598 Posts
Thanked 16,618 Times in 6,532 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
Yes. That's right. I'll explain that to properly test a dehumidifier, it needs to run in a humid environment for at least an hour, if not more. He and I did not do that, as sitting and waiting in a stranger's place of work for an hour is just odd, and most of you wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have done that if I was told the unit is basically new and in new working order.

On top of it, you can't see the physical issue of it icing up unless you take off the cover (20 screws), which we wouldn't have done together either.

My point is that if this was wrapped in plastic for godknows how long before I bought it, there was no way for him to test it and say it's in perfect working condition.
Ok, now again it's a little clearer. Well, after threatening the police I guess his level of defensiveness is going to be very high so maybe you can just try to give back the unit for a refund, or in the worst case push him to a 75% refund and write the 25% off as a bad learning experience.

In the end I guess it's a matter of how far you want to push it, as from the advert etc he clearly mis-sold the item as "in new condition" when with it being 6 years old there is no way it can reasonably be mechanically described like that unless it was hardly ever used in all that time.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 18.06.2020, 17:31
omtatsat's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,795
Groaned at 2,025 Times in 1,116 Posts
Thanked 5,048 Times in 3,191 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Quote:
View Post
Yes. That's right. I'll explain that to properly test a dehumidifier, it needs to run in a humid environment for at least an hour, if not more. He and I did not do that, as sitting and waiting in a stranger's place of work for an hour is just odd, and most of you wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have done that if I was told the unit is basically new and in new working order.

On top of it, you can't see the physical issue of it icing up unless you take off the cover (20 screws), which we wouldn't have done together either.

My point is that if this was wrapped in plastic for godknows how long before I bought it, there was no way for him to test it and say it's in perfect working condition.
If the seller has any good will then he should give you your money back. He sounds like an arse hole
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Missing package- any recourse? DCSmurph Daily life 12 26.01.2018 20:07
legal recourse? Brass427 Other/general 4 02.06.2016 22:26
Shoddy Painter - What is my recourse or rights ? RuJoMa Housing in general 10 12.09.2015 21:51
Connecting a German 220V kitchen appliance bought in France to a 400V outlet in CH? sedebu Housing in general 14 08.04.2013 11:39
Internet shopping False advertising recourse? Hightower Other/general 3 15.08.2011 08:07


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0