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Old 16.06.2020, 16:39
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Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Hey all,

Bought an small, industrial dehumidifier from someone locally who advertised it was in perfect working condition, but it's icing up, and I'm not sure what's wrong with it. I've contacted the manufacturer (thankfully Swiss made), and am awaiting their diagnosis. It's out of its warranty period, and I'd be on the hook for any repair costs.

I really didn't buy this hoping to spend more money just to get it working when it was advertised working as new condition.

I have contacted the seller telling them about the issue, and they've actually helped me get in touch with the manufacturer, but I haven't brought up the issue of a refund/return with them until I hear a diagnosis from the manufacturer.

Is the seller under any obligation to return my money for the defective unit? Am I just screwed and stuck with a repair bill?
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Old 16.06.2020, 17:46
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Are you using it in a cold room or basement? That can cause icing and industrial dehumidifiers often have a defrost cycle to deal with this. Did you obtain the documentation for your make and model?

Another possibility is poor airflow. Take a good look at the air path through the fan and filter to the coils. It may be dirty and simply needs a good cleaning.

If everything is clean and you are still icing at a comfortable room temperature, your humidity sensor may need to be checked. Instead of the unit turning off, it simply keeps running. Is it properly set and adjusted for your environment?

I’d look at those three things before contemplating the hassle of return.
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Old 16.06.2020, 17:55
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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Are you using it in a cold room or basement? That can cause icing and industrial dehumidifiers often have a defrost cycle to deal with this. Did you obtain the documentation for your make and model?
No, the room is a constant 24c. Yes, I have the documentation.

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Another possibility is poor airflow. Take a good look at the air path through the fan and filter to the coils. It may be dirty and simply needs a good cleaning.
I've taken it apart, cleaned it completely, removed the lint filter.

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If everything is clean and you are still icing at a comfortable room temperature, your humidity sensor may need to be checked. Instead of the unit turning off, it simply keeps running. Is it properly set and adjusted for your environment?
It's in a growing room that constantly has humidity, and I have it set to its "constant" setting.

I have two other dehumidifiers running in the same room, and while this one was running, the other two pulled about 40 liters of water in 36 hours, while this one collected about 150-200ml. Basically the defrost cycle would run and that's all it pulled from the atmosphere. It's clearly not working as intended.

Also, as a control, I turned off the other dehumidifiers, and let it run for about 6 hours, and the humidity spiked to 80%, and about 50ml was collected.
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Old 16.06.2020, 18:36
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

The big question is if it was sold to you faulty. It's usually very unlikely that a device suddenly develops a fault immediately after a sale and knowing what people are like I would say there is a good chance the seller knew it wasn't in perfect working condition but didn't say anything about it.
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Old 16.06.2020, 18:45
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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The big question is if it was sold to you faulty. It's usually very unlikely that a device suddenly develops a fault immediately after a sale and knowing what people are like I would say there is a good chance the seller knew it wasn't in perfect working condition but didn't say anything about it.
That's kind of my thought. Brand new, its a CHF1'000 unit, sold for CHF350. What's sillier is that when i came to pick it up, it was wrapped up in cellophane plastic, as if it was new. That's how it was pictured. I thought this unit WAS new, until he sent me a copy of the receipt which was from 2014.

That said, its possible a part failed while being in storage, or whatever, but even still - this isn't something you can really "test" before you get it home. I had to wait hours to know if it worked or not.

For what it's worth, I transported it carefully, never on its side, always upright, and waited a few hours before first use.
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Old 16.06.2020, 19:02
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

It's a difficult one.. Not sure where it stands in the law, where did you buy it? Any protection from there? Ricardo?

If the seller is genuine and you reported the issue quickly.. As a seller I'd give you a refund.. But I kinda doubt there's a legal recourse unless the seller deliberately deceived you. Like saying it was actually new when it wasn't ..

But fighting it might cost more than it's worth.
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Old 16.06.2020, 22:14
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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That's kind of my thought. Brand new, its a CHF1'000 unit, sold for CHF350. What's sillier is that when i came to pick it up, it was wrapped up in cellophane plastic, as if it was new. That's how it was pictured. I thought this unit WAS new, until he sent me a copy of the receipt which was from 2014.

That said, its possible a part failed while being in storage, or whatever, but even still - this isn't something you can really "test" before you get it home. I had to wait hours to know if it worked or not.

For what it's worth, I transported it carefully, never on its side, always upright, and waited a few hours before first use.
I would have asked to see it working before I took it home. You should also have checked the age as standard. Anyway good luck getting it sorted!
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Old 18.06.2020, 08:17
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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That's kind of my thought. Brand new, its a CHF1'000 unit, sold for CHF350. What's sillier is that when i came to pick it up, it was wrapped up in cellophane plastic, as if it was new. That's how it was pictured. I thought this unit WAS new, until he sent me a copy of the receipt which was from 2014.

That said, its possible a part failed while being in storage, or whatever, but even still - this isn't something you can really "test" before you get it home. I had to wait hours to know if it worked or not.

For what it's worth, I transported it carefully, never on its side, always upright, and waited a few hours before first use.
So how long was it in storage? Did the seller test it immediately before he sold it to you? But I would never buy a 6 year old used humidifier ( mould in machine )

Did you not ask him how old it was before you bought it? Did he sell it as new?
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Old 16.06.2020, 18:58
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

40 liters in in 36h in a room?? there seems to be a serious problem there
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Old 16.06.2020, 19:26
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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40 liters in in 36h in a room?? there seems to be a serious problem there
It's a grow room, theres constant humidity being put out by plants growing, especially when watering 2x a day.
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Old 16.06.2020, 19:59
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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It's a grow room, theres constant humidity being put out by plants growing, especially when watering 2x a day.
AKA a dope farm?

Tom
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Old 20.06.2020, 23:33
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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.......I've taken it apart, cleaned it completely, removed the lint filter.......
After this action the subject is basically closed.
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Old 21.06.2020, 00:40
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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In response to your email,
I will remind you when it follows,

1 my item was published in a public used items platform whereby I indicated the brand, the price at the time that I purchased it, what I asked for (the 350fr.-) and the fact that it was fully functional, and no word on warranty and anything else.

2 you came to get it and I removed the plastic that wrapped it, to protect it over time.

3 and true, I went to retrieve an adapter to put it into operation, I cleaned up the still dirty filter, so you the little girl and the lady from my apartment building saw that we tried it in the laundry, and this is proof that you knew that you weren't buying a new item, which wasn't even reported on the ad. (the ad said it was fully functional) which was so for me.

3 you had the sacred holy right to prove it, and I would have given it a chance, as on the other hand I do with any article I put on tutti.ch even if I am not bound by any rule or law of any kind let alone give a guarantee on these platforms, and your wife who is Swiss knows this very well, on the same platform or sold the bike for a sum well beyond what we are talking about without any clause or what you want to guarantee coverage when tutti.ch always a platform for used or new goods without any conditions, it is not a binding contract, nothing has been written and nothing you want to claim has been agreed a priori.¹ĺ

4 It is true that to help you load it on your car I told you that given the lack of space and to avoid breaking the rear window to put it down, which you did not want and placed it on the rear seats.
Since you know that these articles are not to be loaded inclined, you will also know that after you have inclined them they must remain still for at least 2/4 hours which you have not done, if this is what you would like me to believe.

5 you came to pick it up on Thursday 11 at 13:30 and you write me the first email at 12:00 on the following Saturday 13.6.20, so to prove the contrary it has been running for 2 full days that for me everything can have happened .

6 I tried to meet you by giving you my full support to be able to reassure you, giving you sites and reference numbers (and here [manufacturer] comes into play).

7 I do a job that leads me to do a week of the day, as in the case of the week you came to pick it up, and a week the night starting on Sunday afternoon and the return home is not expected before 6:30 am / 7 of the next morning, it is as I have said several times I unplug the plug and go to sleep.

8 I called [manufacturer]t to find out if there was a problem and what was due in order to understand if it was attributable to before or after the delivery, and he but said that it can happen at any time, and what could have been the expense to fix it, hence my decision to come up against you with the half, just to come up against you.
If I had known that the problem was already present 1 I would not have sold it, much less I would have been interested in it and even less would have tried to find a way to meet.
And I also tell you another thing, [manufacturer] is not there with me who understood that I wanted to mediate and I was interested in meeting you but sooner with you that you broke him continuously on FB taking away time from his day of continuously.

9 as you have well demonstrated in your video, you have opened a purchased item that IF IT WAS NEW, (and I repeat what it wasn't and you knew it) you would also have lost an official guarantee of any product purchased.

10 the phone call with your wife immediately went live from her saying to me:
Call [manufacturer] and not us? As if it were who knows what is bad .... it is my right to know what and for what I should repay someone or something.
When I was trying to explain to him the reason why I didn't reply to your emails saying that:

When I work, I can't write, let alone do office work because I'm busy at work for 13/15 hours ...

She replies above saying to me:
Don't tell me that only she works, my husband does 15 hours a day and answers everyone, not only she works !! ...

So it's you who should learn to listen or stop talking before shooting zero ....
Since maybe it is not understood, I point out that being a driver I am not on the phone when I work just to avoid what happened ...

stay at work and on the phone FOR ME IT DOES NOT EXIST.

So I wrongly replied that if you have the opportunity to answer everyone you worked in the office, but I just meant to say that you have a computer at hand ....
I found out later that you have a business and therefore all the more reason it is easier, because you still have to answer your customers.

She was upset by raising her voice and yelling at me, and I ended the call.

This I can do with you, with his sister with his father if he wishes, but certainly NOT with me.


11 Now, given your request for a full refund, I in turn withdraw the proposal to come against you with half and all this will be evaluated in turn already on Monday.
I remind you that the law that you invited me to read I know it well from Swiss, and it is for new articles with a receipt and contractual agreement you are entitled to a 2-year warranty which you cannot expect on tutti.ch and with used material having said that,

I remind you that when you came it was unpacked from the clearly visible plastic that it was not original packaging or a new item, it was turned on, cleaned the filter in the laundry room with a witness, it was fine for you and therefore the sale was concluded between private individuals of an apparently used item, functioning and in excellent condition (or you would not have picked it up), you have tried it for 2 days, you have opened it, transported it used and managed as you thought, as far as I am concerned, I really think you are the one you want dive.
I would also like to point out that your wife, as you were told, that I used it for a year, then it was put aside and it was reused again last year (exactly last September) (I forgot, even this I can try) the caretaker went to see the problem for a week and saw it in operation, packed it and brought it to the cellar.
As far as I'm concerned, working and in excellent condition.

Now use your 10 days as you see fit, on Monday I take my information on it, and you know I do it even if I already know how it ends.

I'll attach a page to read to you and then I'll let you know the conclusion of the week.

I have never loved scams,
And who points the finger at me without certainties, but how do you say that? ...

There is always a first time
This is the page he linked me: https://tutti.zendesk.com/hc/it/arti...ni-di-utilizzo

Well, this is going to be fun.

Initial impressions, it seems as if he completely misunderstands the difference between the original manufacturer's warranty and the warranty that is established between myself and him when he posted the ad.
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Old 21.06.2020, 01:01
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

Just want to get my ducks in a row here...

Quote:
1 my item was published in a public used items platform whereby I indicated the brand, the price at the time that I purchased it, what I asked for (the 350fr.-) and the fact that it was fully functional, and no word on warranty and anything else.
So in his words, he did not mention any warranty (or lack of it), and he specifically listed it as working "as new".

Quote:
2 you came to get it and I removed the plastic that wrapped it, to protect it over time.
Further proves it was not tested before the sale

Quote:
3 and true, I went to retrieve an adapter to put it into operation, I cleaned up the still dirty filter, so you the little girl and the lady from my apartment building saw that we tried it in the laundry, and this is proof that you knew that you weren't buying a new item, which wasn't even reported on the ad. (the ad said it was fully functional) which was so for me.
True, I knew in that moment it was not literally brand new, and had the chance to walk from the deal, but I didn't as I expected it to still function as new. I did not know at this point it was 6 years old, and put in storage, and rewrapped.

Quote:
4 It is true that to help you load it on your car I told you that given the lack of space and to avoid breaking the rear window to put it down, which you did not want and placed it on the rear seats.
Since you know that these articles are not to be loaded inclined, you will also know that after you have inclined them they must remain still for at least 2/4 hours which you have not done, if this is what you would like me to believe.
He's making some big leaps here. I did let it rest for a few hours before using it, and it was transported vertically, not inclined.

Quote:
5 you came to pick it up on Thursday 11 at 13:30 and you write me the first email at 12:00 on the following Saturday 13.6.20, so to prove the contrary it has been running for 2 full days that for me everything can have happened .
Yes, this is the time I allowed it to run to see if it worked, took a while to get going, etc. Don't think there's anything wrong here.

Quote:
8 I called [manufacturer]t to find out if there was a problem and what was due in order to understand if it was attributable to before or after the delivery, and he but said that it can happen at any time, and what could have been the expense to fix it, hence my decision to come up against you with the half, just to come up against you.
He said this same thing to my wife, but the manufacturer didn't say anything about "it could happen at any time" to me - he told me there's no way to know when it happened - however, as the manufacturer e-mailed me, the repair would be to fix a "refrigerant circuit (and declog the circuit filter)". I'm not sure how I'd be responsible for a faulty refrigerant circuit, or would have clogged a refrigerant filter in the short time I had the device.

Quote:
9 as you have well demonstrated in your video, you have opened a purchased item that IF IT WAS NEW, (and I repeat what it wasn't and you knew it) you would also have lost an official guarantee of any product purchased.
It was opened and filmed at the request of the manufacturer. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote:
11 Now, given your request for a full refund, I in turn withdraw the proposal to come against you with half and all this will be evaluated in turn already on Monday.
I remind you that the law that you invited me to read I know it well from Swiss, and it is for new articles with a receipt and contractual agreement you are entitled to a 2-year warranty which you cannot expect on tutti.ch and with used material
Yes, I think this is the big mistake here. Please someone let me know if he is mistaken, or if the information I've been given here is mistaken. My understanding is that unless he stated that it is sold without warranty, sold as-is, or otherwise, he is required to guarantee the item *himself*, and has absolutely nothing to do with the original manufacturers warranty.
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Old 18.06.2020, 18:30
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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....
Is the seller under any obligation to return my money for the defective unit? Am I just screwed and stuck with a repair bill?
I once bought a used oven on anibis. It repeatedly tripped the circuit in my home whenevr i started it. i spoke to the seller, and finally the kind person refunded the money into my bank, and thanked me for diposing it off.

If advertised as 'working well' it does create a contractual liability IMHO.
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Old 18.06.2020, 18:44
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Re: Bought a defective appliance used - any recourse?

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It's unfortunate that things had to be this way. I believe that I have been completely kind, and reasonable in this situation. All I wanted to do was to have a working dehumidifier, and when that wasn't possible, come to some sort of reasonable outcome.

We wanted to do this amicably. Why don't you? From my understanding, you wouldn't let my wife finish a single sentence. She has every right to be upset when someone interrupts them constantly. I was told that you spoke harshly with XXXX from [manufacturer] as well, and because of your call, they no longer want anything to do with this matter.

If this is how you want to proceed with this transaction, we are happy to oblige. This is a written declaration that I am withdrawing from the buying contract, as the dehumidifier you sold me was clearly not tested before the sale, was described as working in new condition when it is mechanically impossible for the dehumidifier to be in such condition after six years without repair. When an item is listed as "functioning as new", it creates a contractual liability.

Furthermore, the dehumidifier was pictured as wrapped in plastic giving evidence that the item was new when it was not, and I was only informed of its age after the problems arose. You personally unwrapped the dehumidifier in front of me which is further evidence that it was not tested before the sale.

We were happy to accept half, as a gesture of goodwill, but at this point we are requesting a full refund. I am giving you 10 days to reply to this e-mail which gives you enough time to legally have two days off to read this email thoroughly, comprehend its contents calmly, and decide how you would like to proceed.

If you continue to be hostile with us, we will take legal action if necessary.

Cordially,
Anyone else love some drama?

My research tells me the next step is a Justice of the Peace, but it seems like the seller could just not agree to it, in which case I'm somewhat screwed? If he doesn't consent, is there another avenue?

If, after 10 days, and he doesn't want to rectify this, or just doesn't reply, is it betreibung time?

Last edited by aixsyd; 18.06.2020 at 19:23.
 




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