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  #41  
Old 19.06.2020, 18:31
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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London is worse than Paris in terms of 1)size , 2) commute time 3) ridiculously expansive rent and salaries thant don't really correspond and also its just... too big ! I am tired of big cities. Hectic lifestyle, stressed people. long commute hours.
Sweden! Still expensive (but so is Switzerland) but ticks the other boxes.
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Old 19.06.2020, 18:40
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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Yep, I have. Will be visiting in August to at least have a look around.
I'm not sure about how open minded they are either and also the education aspect ...
Flemish part of Belgium, for example, is anything but open minded. They are organized, clean, tis safe - ppl don't even lock doors or attach bikes but... felt cold and unwelcome there. Don't get me wrong, this may be my PERSONAL feeling only which is based on my own interpretation of it all but I wouldn't want to live there.
Yep, Belgium is completely different from Holland, mentality wise. Wouldnt want to live there either. Have a look at the area north of Amsterdam or towards and around Utrecht.
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  #43  
Old 23.06.2020, 10:45
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

If It was to be Geneva , what are the advantages of living in france, working in Switzerland ?
Many people suggest this to me but they seem to fail to know the basic details : how does a frontilier worker declare taxes ? Can I keem my French med insurance ? Is it really fiancially interestin to live like this ?
what are the hidden downsides ?

To be honest I am not really attracted by this idea but it would be interesting to know a bit more nevertheless.
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  #44  
Old 23.06.2020, 13:08
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

Here's a very old thread to get you started

https://www.englishforum.ch/other-ge...itzerland.html

I think you'd keep your French health insurance since you already have it.

Usually people live over the border because property is cheaper, but then you have to ask yourself what any commute would be like. Getting across Geneva itself is a p in the a without the additonal congestion at the border crossing.
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  #45  
Old 23.06.2020, 15:39
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

Luba, can I ask why you are considering Geneva over Lausanne? Have you visited either place? I consider Geneva to be congested, sterile, and a bit soulless. But love the Lausanne region! It's a vibrant city with gorgeous views and good access to the mountains and other parts of Switzerland. If you are moving for quality of life reasons, I'd recommend Lausanne over Geneva any day.
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  #46  
Old 23.06.2020, 15:52
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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Luba, can I ask why you are considering Geneva over Lausanne? Have you visited either place? I consider Geneva to be congested, sterile, and a bit soulless. But love the Lausanne region! It's a vibrant city with gorgeous views and good access to the mountains and other parts of Switzerland. If you are moving for quality of life reasons, I'd recommend Lausanne over Geneva any day.
Only in terms of reaching from France (transport). I have only been to Lausanne aquarium on a super rainy day, so this doesn't count
However I have been to Geneva twice and I do, indeed, share your feelings about it being sterile and soulless!
As we will be traveling this July, I shall include a visit to Lausanne, I do remember the views being awesome !
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  #47  
Old 23.06.2020, 16:32
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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Luba, can I ask why you are considering Geneva over Lausanne? Have you visited either place? I consider Geneva to be congested, sterile, and a bit soulless. But love the Lausanne region! It's a vibrant city with gorgeous views and good access to the mountains and other parts of Switzerland. If you are moving for quality of life reasons, I'd recommend Lausanne over Geneva any day.
That's a bit harsh, but everybody sees things differently and wants something else from plave of living. People bash Geneva and often praise Zurich in the same sentence, for me they are so similar like no other cities I've seen. But I prefer Geneva's 'latino' style rather than 'german' style of Zurich.

Ie for me Lausanne simply didn't work, further away from mountains (I can be in 45 minutes straight under Mont Blanc from our place, 45 mins from Lausanne will get you to... Aigle? If there aren't traffic jams on the highway). Lausanne is much more Swiss than international (Geneve). For all the glory this country can offer, a typical Swiss mentality ain't the highlight for me as a foreigner.

As for being a frontaliere - depends where. There are places which take 15 min of drive/bike ride to almost any place in Geneva and are closer to true nature than anything Lausanne can offer. There are also remote cheap places which take longer. The worst I know personally is still closer timewise than those poor suckers that commute daily half of their lives from Lausanne (or further).

When living in Geneva, I actually stopped visiting rest of Suisse, France provides same or better (food, sea, mountains), is closer for (often much) lower prices. Shops simply have more high quality food (being limited during covid to coop&migros was a liquid nitrogen shower in terms of how bland and super-expensive groceries en Suisse are, services are another topic on its own). Started going back to Suisse with Covid again, but now again no reason whatsoever to go there.

But some people couldn't care less about things important to me. I have colleague who moved to Lausanne because he didn't like how Geneva was empty on the weekends (with such surroundings for fun/adventure, who can blame us). He has different priorities and he is very happy there. Only you know what is important for you. And subjective personal circumstances like circle of friends you make are more important then these general statements.
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  #48  
Old 23.06.2020, 19:00
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

Have you considered Basel? It's a tramride to Germany or France and Basel has a Musik Akademie and other music schools for kids.
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  #49  
Old 23.06.2020, 19:00
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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If It was to be Geneva , what are the advantages of living in france, working in Switzerland ?
Many people suggest this to me but they seem to fail to know the basic details : how does a frontilier worker declare taxes ? Can I keem my French med insurance ? Is it really fiancially interestin to live like this ?
what are the hidden downsides ?

To be honest I am not really attracted by this idea but it would be interesting to know a bit more nevertheless.
You can rent a house with a garden in France for the price you rent a micro-flat in Genève. Some people put a lot of value into this. You mentioned before that you value more a circle of friends than having a 2 car garage or a trampoline in the garden for the kids.

I think tax is deducted from your monthly salary (impôt à la source). Due to the high number of frontaliers, canton Genève came up with some special rules other cantons don't have. But you know French, it should be easier to navigate the bureaucracy.

From the financial side, it makes a lot of sense to be frontalier for part-time workers or low income workers. They simply can't afford to live in CH. For higher incomes, the tax rate might be lower in CH compared to France. Albeit, there's deductions for children, so the only way to know is to do the math, every case is different.

The only "hidden" downside I know is from a French acquaintance. He works at some place that depends on cantonal budget. He rents a small room in an ugly and very cheap flat in Genève for the address, but also rents a nicer flat in FR to live. The motivation to have a primary residence in Switzerland is to be perceived as better integrated and have better career opportunities. His personal impression is that frontaliers are perceived as less stable in the long term, and that people values stability at his job. Could be right or wrong but that's his bet.
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Old 23.06.2020, 23:02
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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You can rent a house with a garden in France for the price you rent a micro-flat in Genève. Some people put a lot of value into this. You mentioned before that you value more a circle of friends than having a 2 car garage or a trampoline in the garden for the kids.
.
Mmmm this is not exactly true. I have a zero circle of friends here, we are stuck in a social housing appartment (thanks to which financially we can afford holidays and so on) and DREAM of having a house with a garden. However I am trying to be realistic : can I rent a HOUSE next to SWITZERLAND with 1 salary ? even a swiss one ?

If We hide ourselves in a village (so to speak) won't it be harder for me to try and meet people and eventually THE person?

This is me thinking out loud. A garden with a trampoline IS a dream, but a bigger one is to find myself a spouse, for my sake and the child's. I think a living example of healthy relationship is worth more than a trampoline. Then again 2 salaries could also mean a garden with that trampoline
If you know what I mean.

I am not French by origin, whether for this reason or because I am subconsiously willing to move away asap I am unable to neither project here nor meet someone. I think its all tied up to the fact that my desire to move is very strong.. Don't know if this makes any sence
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  #51  
Old 23.06.2020, 23:13
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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However I am trying to be realistic : can I rent a HOUSE next to SWITZERLAND with 1 salary ? even a swiss one ?
That depends on how much you earn. And ultimately where you live is going to depend partially on where you can find a job. You don't give any info about what job you are looking for apart from being in finance.
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  #52  
Old 23.06.2020, 23:33
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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That depends on how much you earn. And ultimately where you live is going to depend partially on where you can find a job. You don't give any info about what job you are looking for apart from being in finance.
I am in BNP , internal control, related to securities operations.
Backoffice job in financial control I suppose is how to summarize this.
Honestly I can do a lot better than this (I've been stuck doing to and not changin in order to get my French papers sorted + gt be there some time before internal mobility is possible and then corona happened and now mobility is not before 2021.)
Roughly speaking im in the 40-43K per year BRUT (before tax - crying hard here) if I am to count in bonuses, my working on national holidays and support money for various things including for the kid, activities, holidays, etc by Commitée d'entreprise (our IS excellent)
I used t0 have a part time job in French uni as an English substitute teacher but thats done with.

This leads me to my next question , actually, how easily do the Swiss give you a chance to move up the career ladder ? Because it is a true nightmare in France, IMHO. Its a VERY slow, step by step process...
I believe in this sence its much easier in the anglo-saxon "world" - they can easily make you redundant or eve fire you yet they are a lot more open to giving you a chance to prove what you are capable of. One of the reasons I was considering the UK ...

Last edited by Luba; 23.06.2020 at 23:45.
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  #53  
Old 24.06.2020, 07:57
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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Mmmm this is not exactly true. I have a zero circle of friends here, we are stuck in a social housing appartment (thanks to which financially we can afford holidays and so on) and DREAM of having a house with a garden. However I am trying to be realistic : can I rent a HOUSE next to SWITZERLAND with 1 salary ? even a swiss one ?

If We hide ourselves in a village (so to speak) won't it be harder for me to try and meet people and eventually THE person?

This is me thinking out loud. A garden with a trampoline IS a dream, but a bigger one is to find myself a spouse, for my sake and the child's. I think a living example of healthy relationship is worth more than a trampoline. Then again 2 salaries could also mean a garden with that trampoline
If you know what I mean.

I am not French by origin, whether for this reason or because I am subconsiously willing to move away asap I am unable to neither project here nor meet someone. I think its all tied up to the fact that my desire to move is very strong.. Don't know if this makes any sence
Here's my 2 cents (unsolicited) thoughts on some of your thoughts you have exposed here....I might have missed the lines where you mentioned your age, but in my humble opinion age does matter. Don't get me wrong: I am not an ageist, sexist or...nihilist. I think though that after one's 30s it is much more difficult to find a Mr. Right or at least someone approaching this idea(l).
Reading your posts about your French environment surprised me a little because moons ago when I had a short internship in a French company they did seem very sociable and willing to know other people...wonder if it wasn't my age that attracted certain sympathies. But back then I was already in a long term relation and probably looked like a total asocial moron myself.
It makes sense you want to change something, why wouldn't it. I don't know if moving here in Switzerland will make certain things easier. You'll be meeting new people, true, most of whom probably expats/foreigners but don't know if other things will come that easy. I see many single males and females in our circles, don't know what to say. I think that if you come here with the thought of just letting the life do its job, without too much pressure and expectations, it might be a good move. Ask your child though, get her approval/support/enthusiasm too. Good luck.
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  #54  
Old 24.06.2020, 07:58
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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I am in BNP , internal control, related to securities operations.
Backoffice job in financial control I suppose is how to summarize this.

This leads me to my next question , actually, how easily do the Swiss give you a chance to move up the career ladder ? Because it is a true nightmare in France, IMHO. Its a VERY slow, step by step process...
I believe in this sence its much easier in the anglo-saxon "world" - they can easily make you redundant or eve fire you yet they are a lot more open to giving you a chance to prove what you are capable of. One of the reasons I was considering the UK ...
Out of my experience, moving up on the career ladder with a back office job is not easy either in Switzerland (or banking at all). Have your considered (cough cough) Compliance? Seems to be the area where all banks are looking for people? I know your bank has massively invested in that area.

It is, by the way, equally easy to be fired in Switzerland.
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Old 24.06.2020, 09:54
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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Here's my 2 cents (unsolicited) thoughts on some of your thoughts you have exposed here....I might have missed the lines where you mentioned your age, but in my humble opinion age does matter. Don't get me wrong: I am not an ageist, sexist or...nihilist. I think though that after one's 30s it is much more difficult to find a Mr. Right or at least someone approaching this idea(l).
Reading your posts about your French environment surprised me a little because moons ago when I had a short internship in a French company they did seem very sociable and willing to know other people...wonder if it wasn't my age that attracted certain sympathies. But back then I was already in a long term relation and probably looked like a total asocial moron myself.
It makes sense you want to change something, why wouldn't it. I don't know if moving here in Switzerland will make certain things easier. You'll be meeting new people, true, most of whom probably expats/foreigners but don't know if other things will come that easy. I see many single males and females in our circles, don't know what to say. I think that if you come here with the thought of just letting the life do its job, without too much pressure and expectations, it might be a good move. Ask your child though, get her approval/support/enthusiasm too. Good luck.
I am 32 with a 10 year old , who is very eager to move, even to a German part - she says "I'll know German then how cool!" ( I did expalin it wasn't the same language etc). So she is VERY enthusiastic on moving, I've been discussing ideas with her and sharing my thought and so on and she is ready to go whereaver I go, which does make the whole deal a lot easier.

I sure enough don't expect any miracle, but I think change will do ME good in all aspcts. As for Mr right its always unclear why some meet him early on and live together forever and some never do and the entire spectrum in between.
I have tried to understand what is it here that doesn't do it for me and although I have met very nice French men here, it just never got me anywhere. Maybe its not the nationality, I don't know at this point any more.. but change would refresh my mind , that I know for sure.
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Old 24.06.2020, 09:58
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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Out of my experience, moving up on the career ladder with a back office job is not easy either in Switzerland (or banking at all). Have your considered (cough cough) Compliance? Seems to be the area where all banks are looking for people? I know your bank has massively invested in that area.

It is, by the way, equally easy to be fired in Switzerland.
back offcie is far from ideal, I totally agree and yes, I am checking out compliance positions at the moment but elsewhere since they won't open my mobility now "due to corona" , this would be a stop forward, if not "out".
In a way I regret that I have been stuck in this job for 4.5 years but I did move from consultant position to an internal worker (they proposed BNP contract right before "freezing" extrenal hiringfor a while) and besides when kid was younger all was just... harder
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Old 24.06.2020, 11:21
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

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Mmmm this is not exactly true. I have a zero circle of friends here, we are stuck in a social housing appartment (thanks to which financially we can afford holidays and so on) and DREAM of having a house with a garden. However I am trying to be realistic : can I rent a HOUSE next to SWITZERLAND with 1 salary ? even a swiss one ?

Sorry if I misread one of your first posts about friends:/


Well, back to the part I do know. There's a strong difference in rental prices between Genève and the surrounding France.



Just for example this house 12 km from the Swiss border is 1500€ per month. Who knows if the windows seal, if the heating works properly or if the roof leaks but it's large and cheap https://www.seloger.com/annonces/loc...ypes=2&places=[{ci:740012}|{ci:740010}]&proximities=0,10&sort=a_px&enterprise=0&qsVersion =1.0&bd=ListToDetail 1600 CHF are not enough for any apartment of any size close to Genève city center. A bit outside the city center 1600 CHF may afford a nice 1 bedroom apartment or a not so recently renovated 2 bedroom apartment. Of course, these are generalizations. Great opportunities need to be hunted.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.06.2020 at 12:36. Reason: fixed quote
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Old 24.06.2020, 12:04
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Re: moving to Switzerland from France

need to consider the running costs of the car to commute daily over the border.

probably bus/tram abo: 100 CHF /month
running costs of the car: do the math, 60-70 rp/km. Nice to have a house if you can affort another x00/month for owning and repairing the car.

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Mmmm this is not exactly true. I have a zero circle of friends here, we are stuck in a social housing appartment (thanks to which financially we can afford holidays and so on) and DREAM of having a house with a garden. However I am trying to be realistic : can I rent a HOUSE next to SWITZERLAND with 1 salary ? even a swiss one ?
Sorry if I misread one of your first posts about friends:/

Well, back to the part I do know. There's a strong difference in rental prices between Genève and the surrounding France.

Just for example this house 12 km from the Swiss border is 1500€ per month. Who knows if the windows seal, if the heating works properly or if the roof leaks but it's large and cheap https://www.seloger.com/annonces/loc...ypes=2&places=[{ci:740012}|{ci:740010}]&proximities=0,10&sort=a_px&enterprise=0&qsVersion =1.0&bd=ListToDetail 1600 CHF are not enough for any apartment of any size close to Genève city center. A bit outside the city center 1600 CHF may afford a nice 1 bedroom apartment or a not so recently renovated 2 bedroom apartment. Of course, these are generalizations. Great opportunities need to be hunted.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 24.06.2020 at 12:37. Reason: fixed quote
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