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  #1  
Old 01.07.2020, 16:08
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Two F18s over lac leman!

Did you see them?

Came over the Jura, real low over my house and down over the lake.. Left turn up towards Motreux / Vevey end.. Really low..

Some fly past? Display?
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  #2  
Old 01.07.2020, 16:13
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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Did you see them?

Came over the Jura, real low over my house and down over the lake.. Left turn up towards Motreux / Vevey end.. Really low..

Some fly past? Display?
Practising?
Getting the demanded yearly flight hours in/done?
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  #3  
Old 01.07.2020, 16:19
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

We get them quite a lot (well, a few times a year) coming up over the mountains, sometimes three or even four together; I've always assumed it's just training flights. I could well imagine them taking in the lake for a change of scenery, and it's only a few seconds flying away from us.

TBF, I couldn't say that they are F18s, as I wouldn't know one if I saw it, but Swiss warplanes going fairly quickly and fairly low is for sure.
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Old 01.07.2020, 18:07
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

Hurrying home before they clock off at 17:00 and leave Swiss air defence to the French?
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Old 01.07.2020, 18:54
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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We get them quite a lot (well, a few times a year) coming up over the mountains, sometimes three or even four together; I've always assumed it's just training flights. I could well imagine them taking in the lake for a change of scenery, and it's only a few seconds flying away from us.

TBF, I couldn't say that they are F18s, as I wouldn't know one if I saw it, but Swiss warplanes going fairly quickly and fairly low is for sure.
A F18 has twin tails sorta in a V, Two engines.

The only other Swiss fighter the F5 has a single tail and has wingtip thingies.

Anything else, we have been invaded.
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Old 01.07.2020, 19:53
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

These were the F18s .. Really low..

We live right on the flight path where planes come over the jura and turn to follow the lake into GE airport.. These were much lower than the normal commercial planes.. And went right down following the terrain to the lake . .

Anyway .. No big deal, just I've never seen them before in this area, so low over populated area etc.
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Old 01.07.2020, 20:09
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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These were the F18s .. Really low..

We live right on the flight path where planes come over the jura and turn to follow the lake into GE airport.. These were much lower than the normal commercial planes.. And went right down following the terrain to the lake . .

Anyway .. No big deal, just I've never seen them before in this area, so low over populated area etc.
It’s a fairly regular occurrence but they need to be careful to avoid French airspace. That would be La Dole to the south of you and Yvoire to the east. They may have come from Payerne or Dubendorf or even Meiringen.
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Old 01.07.2020, 20:43
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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It’s a fairly regular occurrence but they need to be careful to avoid French airspace. That would be La Dole to the south of you and Yvoire to the east. They may have come from Payerne or Dubendorf or even Meiringen.
Well that's the thing.. They came over the Jura from Lac de Joux direction, down over Gland and out across the lake to Yvoire and apparenty hugged that side past Thonon and Evian towards that end of the lake..

They must have been in of very close to the French airspace. They were low, we saw them above when they passed us. Hence easily seeing the twin tail fins.
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Old 01.07.2020, 20:57
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

Perhaps they were testing the French detection systems. Not that they have a lot pointed our ways.
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Old 02.07.2020, 16:37
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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They must have been in of very close to the French airspace. They were low, we saw them above when they passed us. Hence easily seeing the twin tail fins.
The Swiss planes are virtually guaranteed to cross the border at least every once in a while given the country's size. And it's in everybody's interest that they're able to police a suspicious flight regardless of the country below them (until the neighbor's jets have taken over).

The latter is the same situation with ground police, where both CH and the respective Cantons have agreements with their neighbors that provide special power and allow crossborder policing where warranted.

The equivalent for the airspace probably exists as well. In fact, such must already be in place at least with France in order for them to be able to take over during CH's off-service hours. They must have been given authoritiy to use lethal force in order to legallly use it, should the necessity arise.
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Old 02.07.2020, 17:13
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

There are regularly flights of 4 German Eurofighters flying over Switzerland on their way to Spain. The first time I saw 4 contrails very close together I really had to look twice. Investigated and found out what they were. Then saw them again a few times during lockdown. They were fairly obvious as there was nothing else in the sky...
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Old 02.07.2020, 17:56
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

Such transits are planned well in advance. The aircraft were likely unarmed.
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Old 02.07.2020, 19:22
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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There are regularly flights of 4 German Eurofighters flying over Switzerland on their way to Spain. The first time I saw 4 contrails very close together I really had to look twice. Investigated and found out what they were. Then saw them again a few times during lockdown. They were fairly obvious as there was nothing else in the sky...
The US have military bases in Italy and Germany, certainly that includes the right to use the airspace. France had ordered the US to close their military bases and leave France for good under De Gaulle, it's probably easier to get flyover permission for military aircraft from Switzerland.
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Old 02.07.2020, 19:44
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

It is complicated... But Switzerland, as a neutral country, requires advance notice and that any aircraft not be carrying weapons.

This includes freighters headed towards Iraq/Afghanistan etc. The yanks do cheat, and the Swiss know they are cheating but ...
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Old 03.07.2020, 00:45
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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It is complicated... But Switzerland, as a neutral country, requires advance notice and that any aircraft not be carrying weapons.

This includes freighters headed towards Iraq/Afghanistan etc. The yanks do cheat, and the Swiss know they are cheating but ...
That has nothing to do with neutrality and everything with sovereignty.
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Old 03.07.2020, 10:20
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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That has nothing to do with neutrality and everything with sovereignty.
A US ally like Canada regularly allow armed aircraft over their soil and transit stops in places like Goose Bay, Gander and St. Johns for fuel and other provisions.

Neutral countries like Ireland and Sweden and CH do not allow armed aircraft or weapons being carried over their territory.

Specifically have a look at the Act on the Neutrality of Switzerland signed on 20 November 1815 by the Great Powers.
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Old 03.07.2020, 16:02
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

Please link what you refer to.

See the agreement with Sweden. Art. 5.4 includes and allows the use of weapons by Swiss personnel on Swedish territory.
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Old 03.07.2020, 16:05
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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See the agreement with Sweden. Art. 5.4 includes and allows the use of weapons by Swiss personnel on Swedish territory.
Absolutely, you're allowed to carry a Swiss army knife in Sweden, especially the commemorative MacGyver edition.
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Old 03.07.2020, 16:36
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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Did you see them?

Came over the Jura, real low over my house and down over the lake.. Left turn up towards Motreux / Vevey end.. Really low..

Some fly past? Display?
They are checking fo social distancing
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Old 03.07.2020, 16:41
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Re: Two F18s over lac leman!

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Please link what you refer to.

See the agreement with Sweden. Art. 5.4 includes and allows the use of weapons by Swiss personnel on Swedish territory.
Not certain what an agreement with another neutral nation has to do with not carrying weapons over Swiss territory. But whatever, you seem to think you have a mission to disagree with about everything I post on this forum. Please stop ...
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