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  #101  
Old 11.07.2020, 09:43
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

It does keep away the flies. Especially those blood sucking right in zhe middle of your back kind when one has just had a nice refreshing dip.
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  #102  
Old 11.07.2020, 09:56
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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You remind me of those hypocrites that ushered in prohibition in the US. Would I be wrong in guessing that you also find homosexuality, promiscuity and rock music sinful?
This is really ridiculous. Since when does homosexuality, promiscuity and rock music involve the forced participation of bystanders?

The only reason I have a problem with cocaine and heroin has to do with not wanting to do CPR or administer Naloxone, and possibly watching people die due to people getting drugs with other crap added.
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  #103  
Old 11.07.2020, 10:02
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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If you criminalize nicotin before 26 then, is it going to work as well as it did when the US put the age limit (21) on alcohol? Because it doesn't seem to work nor deter. USA has a big problem with secret alcoholism, in my opinion. Despite public smoking being so ostentatiously frowned upon there.
Except that countries with a higher smoking age do have fewer people smoking. It's a mood altering drug and I get the whole personal responsibility angle, except that it doesn't apply when applied to a psychoactive drug. If you started any stimulant at a young age, you would find it difficult to do without as you get older because neural plasticity wanes with age.

Anyhow, Nicotine isn't banned in children, only cigarettes. There's no legal ban on children using nicotine gum or patches.
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  #104  
Old 11.07.2020, 11:19
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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Anyhow, Nicotine isn't banned in children, only cigarettes. There's no legal ban on children using nicotine gum or patches.
I’m fairly certain that nicotine gum and patches are not available over the counter in Vaud. I think a prescription is required.

Happy to be proved wrong as these help addicts come clean.

And Tom, you can groan me as much as you want, but you are not going to change my view that smokers are addicts and that their smoking harms not only themselves, but everyone around them.

Last edited by bowlie; 11.07.2020 at 11:35.
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  #105  
Old 11.07.2020, 11:29
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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And Tom, you can groan me as much as you want, but you are not going to change my view that smokers are addicts and that their smoking harms not only themselves, but everyone around them.
It's not a view, but a set of medical facts.

I guess some people are in denial.
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  #106  
Old 11.07.2020, 12:10
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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Being anal about other people smoking outdoors is mostly an Anglo thing. Sounds like you better get used to it or go home.

I look at anglo-saxon culture simply from the outside but this is the impression that I have as well. The same things that made that Britannia and now America rule the waves, are the same things that created the puritans, the temperance movement, the great bathroom debate, anti-gravity space pens, fake cheese in an aerosol cans, baggy jeans... and the war against tobacco (after decades long product placement in film).
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  #107  
Old 11.07.2020, 12:43
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

Just out of curiosity, does anyone here smoke? I mean among those who posted (or thanked/groaned) here in support of smokers....

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And Tom, you can groan me as much as you want, but you are not going to change my view that smokers are addicts and that their smoking harms not only themselves, but everyone around them.
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  #108  
Old 11.07.2020, 13:59
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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Just out of curiosity, does anyone here smoke? I mean among those who posted (or thanked/groaned) here in support of smokers....
The Swiss (the real ones) on this thread who have come out in support of blowing smoke in peoples' faces have all said on previous threads that they smoke.

Stlemans has said he doesn't smoke but he doesn't feel like he's allowed to feel like a real Swiss person unless he is pro-smoking.


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I look at anglo-saxon culture simply from the outside but this is the impression that I have as well. The same things that made that Britannia and now America rule the waves, are the same things that created the puritans, the temperance movement, the great bathroom debate, anti-gravity space pens, fake cheese in an aerosol cans, baggy jeans... and the war against tobacco (after decades long product placement in film).
Do you know what Anglo-Saxon means?

My family comes from the French (post-dating the anglo-saxon period) and the North of the U.K. (pre-dating it).

As you think being anti-smoking is "anglo-saxon", are iPhones and indeed all smart phones "anglo-saxon" too?

I think you'll find the Swiss-Germans a lot more Saxon in their "outlook" on life and culture than anyone else outside of Germany.
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  #109  
Old 11.07.2020, 14:25
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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Do you know what Anglo-Saxon means?
They have no clue. I'm not anglo-saxon, by culture or genetics and my family is vehemently anti-smoking. There's too many asthmatics and doctors in the family for anything but being mocked mercilessly out of the gathering if you smoke.. all the while the retires drink some whiskey while the teenagers get paid to be the designated drivers. I suppose every immigrant community is different.
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  #110  
Old 11.07.2020, 14:38
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

I’m Swiss and I am not an addict.

Go ahead Tom, you want to, don’t you.
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  #111  
Old 11.07.2020, 15:09
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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I’m Swiss and I am not an addict.

Go ahead Tom, you want to, don’t you.
We don't know anyone Swiss in real life who holds the attitude of Stlemans, Curley and others.

Lets just say it's a certain type of person who still smokes themselves in this day and age and doesn't care who is downwind of it.

It's got nothing to do with freedom or anything like that.
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  #112  
Old 11.07.2020, 15:13
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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Except that countries with a higher smoking age do have fewer people smoking. It's a mood altering drug and I get the whole personal responsibility angle, except that it doesn't apply when applied to a psychoactive drug. If you started any stimulant at a young age, you would find it difficult to do without as you get older because neural plasticity wanes with age.

Anyhow, Nicotine isn't banned in children, only cigarettes. There's no legal ban on children using nicotine gum or patches.
Those are indeed valid points, I wouldn't even dispute them.

My point is - alcohol is damaging brains that are still developing as well, they tried to handle it with pushing up the legal age in the US and the stigma created a culture with lethal hidden addictions. I think if you let cigs available the way they are here, but restrict areas where it is allowed (not in pools and gated/entry-fee recreational areas) kids will know that if they really want to they are allowed in the free lake areas, etc. But a lot of the younger ones will not bother and will stick to clean pools with families around and no real addictions rubbed in their faces aside of being obsessed with water. Pool staff indeed kick drunks out of the pool area. Alcohol seems to not be a thing there either, it costs a lot. If a society simply bans something, the forbidden fruit makes it a hit.

Try banning it on a lake or where there are no forces to check/reinforce, it wil not be implemented, imho.
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  #113  
Old 11.07.2020, 15:30
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

I have met so many kind smokers that I would never call them out so vehemently on their habit. They know it's a bad habit but they also only smoke where permitted.

I also take offence to the idea that if one supports smokers rights, then that makes them the supporter a "bad" person.

There's a quote that goes

When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.
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  #114  
Old 11.07.2020, 15:32
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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So you think there should be a smoking ban at badis? Or you should ban kids from badis to get around the problem?
I understand thwere are already badis who ban kids under a certain age at certain times. There are also badis that have female only days etc (or in the case of Zürich, a badi that is female only all the time).

I have some reservations about that because it's a service everybody pays for with their taxes. But as long as the restrictions are moderate, reasonable and there are other badis we can go to instead, why not?
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  #115  
Old 11.07.2020, 15:40
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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I have met so many kind smokers that I would never call them out so vehemently on their habit. They know it's a bad habit but they also only smoke where permitted.
Haven't you read any of the thread?

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I also take offence to the idea that if one supports smokers rights, then that makes them the supporter a "bad" person.

There's a quote that goes

When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself.
There's plenty of judging going on in this thread from both sides.

There's another quote too:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

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I understand thwere are already badis who ban kids under a certain age at certain times. There are also badis that have female only days etc (or in the case of Zürich, a badi that is female only all the time).

I have some reservations about that because it's a service everybody pays for with their taxes. But as long as the restrictions are moderate, reasonable and there are other badis we can go to instead, why not?
Which one - banning smoking or banning kids?
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  #116  
Old 11.07.2020, 16:18
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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The Swiss (the real ones) on this thread who have come out in support of blowing smoke in peoples' faces have all said on previous threads that they smoke.

Stlemans has said he doesn't smoke but he doesn't feel like he's allowed to feel like a real Swiss person unless he is pro-smoking.

.
Thanks, I thought so.

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Haven't you read any of the thread?



There's plenty of judging going on in this thread from both sides.
As always. As long as it doesn't affect us directly I have nothing against other people smoking. It's bad for their health, but each to their own.
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  #117  
Old 11.07.2020, 16:31
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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The Swiss (the real ones) on this thread who have come out in support of blowing smoke in peoples' faces have all said on previous threads that they smoke.

Stlemans has said he doesn't smoke but he doesn't feel like he's allowed to feel like a real Swiss person unless he is pro-smoking.




Do you know what Anglo-Saxon means?

My family comes from the French (post-dating the anglo-saxon period) and the North of the U.K. (pre-dating it).

As you think being anti-smoking is "anglo-saxon", are iPhones and indeed all smart phones "anglo-saxon" too?

I think you'll find the Swiss-Germans a lot more Saxon in their "outlook" on life and culture than anyone else outside of Germany.

I was just poking fun with ironic banter. But the adjective 'anglo-saxon' is frequently used by francophones to describe the British, American, Anglo-Canadian etc. cultures. (If usage dictates correctness...) And I do believe that a lot of things that were initially non issues in other cultures, have been transformed from the trivial to the existential in these Anglo-Saxon cultures and thereafter, 'popular' culture has projected them far beyond their original borders. I'm sure that someone more cultivated than me can write pages and pages on the subject.
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  #118  
Old 11.07.2020, 16:58
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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And I do believe that a lot of things that were initially non issues in other cultures, have been transformed from the trivial to the existential in these Anglo-Saxon cultures and thereafter, 'popular' culture has projected them far beyond their original borders. I'm sure that someone more cultivated than me can write pages and pages on the subject.
Smoking was a non-issue in every country a few years ago.

It's only in more recent years that the links between heart-disease, cancers and lung conditions have been made, and more recently than that, the social and medical dangers of passive-smoking have been discovered.

A country that does not recognise these issues is not forward or progressive.

The Swiss government has recognised these issues and has tried to deal with it but the uptake has been slow and the people have appeared to try, wherever possible, and in a juvenile fashion, to ignore, or bend these rules.

I can't see why that is a good thing.
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  #119  
Old 11.07.2020, 17:07
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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Smoking was a non-issue in every country a few years ago.

It's only in more recent years that the links between heart-disease, cancers and lung conditions have been made, and more recently than that, the social and medical dangers of passive-smoking have been discovered.

A country that does not recognise these issues is not forward or progressive.

The Swiss government has recognised these issues and has tried to deal with it but the uptake has been slow and the people have appeared to try, wherever possible, and in a juvenile fashion, to ignore, or bend these rules.

I can't see why that is a good thing.

I see that this is an important subject for you and that furthermore, you ardently desire what you describe as a forward or progressive environment -- for not only yourself, but for the rest of us as well. I get your point but choose a different path.
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  #120  
Old 11.07.2020, 17:27
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Re: Smoking cigars in the bathing area ( on the lake )

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I see that this is an important subject for you and that furthermore, you ardently desire what you describe as a forward or progressive environment -- for not only yourself, but for the rest of us as well. I get your point but choose a different path.
Not in the grand scheme of things. I'm still waiting for one of the people on this forum to explain the "f**k you and your family" attitude where because something is allowed in law, or is not illegal, that trumps any unselfish action.

I've had the same attitude at a few campsites here when people have been making lots of noise well into the small hours and when asked if they wouldn't mind stopping the noise because families and other are trying to sleep, I've been met with the same attitude and physical violence at one place.

In contrast, I've camped all the world and never had a problem. Once I did in Derbyshire and I asked some rowdy adults to be quieter and I got many apologies and total silence from them.

As I've written before, I know the law, I know where people are allowed to smoke, I just don't understand the "f**k you and your family" attitude here.

Actually, I know the answer: "Because we allowed. It is the law!".

It's this psychologically different way of thinking that I find interesting although no one has really explained the other point of view which I think is telling in itself.
Perhaps they don't know why they think like that.
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