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  #21  
Old 15.08.2020, 19:45
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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We have no idea, that‘s why I asked. The OP may have signed a contract agreeing to pay 1000s for doing basically nothing. Who knows??
You seem to be implying that unless I explain why I got the betreibung in detail, you are not going to believe the premise of the original post that the betreibung action is harassment. That is fair. You are free not to believe my words, just as I am free not to tell you what happened for whatever reason (perhaps I don't want to have a court in this forum?).

----

In retrospect, it seems to me that the decision of not going into details was wise, as I am surprised that so many people (at this moment four, more than any other comments have received) "thanked treverus's useful comments", as they obviously mischaracterised what I said.
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  #22  
Old 15.08.2020, 20:55
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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You seem to be implying that unless I explain why I got the betreibung in detail, you are not going to believe the premise of the original post that the betreibung action is harassment. That is fair. You are free not to believe my words, just as I am free not to tell you what happened for whatever reason (perhaps I don't want to have a court in this forum?).

----

In retrospect, it seems to me that the decision of not going into details was wise, as I am surprised that so many people (at this moment four, more than any other comments have received) "thanked treverus's useful comments", as they obviously mischaracterised what I said.
We've seen many betreibung stories here, so don't take the reactions personally. You can provide whatever level of detail you want, just be aware that replies might not be very relevant since we don't know that much about the situation.

From what I've seen, companies don't just issue betreibungs for fun. Companies believe there was a contract for goods or services, either verbal or in writing, and that the person has not held up their end of the bargain. You disagree with this company, and it sounds like you're pushing back your side of the story. That's fine, you're entitled to do so.

I don't think Treverus mischaracterized what you said. In your first point, you said all your documentation is in English. In the second one, you asked how you'd get "equal treatment under the law" - implying that you'd be treated unfairly if you only use English documentation.

The reality is that English is not an official language in Switzerland, so everything settled in a court is going to be in German, French or Italian because those are official languages. All the laws are written in those languages. Translations are available, but always with the disclaimer that it's for info only.

You'll still be treated equally under the law, but if you don't understand the language then you probably won't fully understand the law or the proceedings as they move forward.

With that in mind, you should plan accordingly. I recommend you have your documentation translated, and bring an interpreter with you to any hearings.
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  #23  
Old 15.08.2020, 21:19
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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I don't think Treverus mischaracterized what you said. In your first point, you said all your documentation is in English. In the second one, you asked how you'd get "equal treatment under the law" - implying that you'd be treated unfairly if you only use English documentation.
Here I quote my questions in the original post:

1. Will my evidence / proof / documents be understood by the court if it is in English?
2. If the answer to the first question is no, assuming "all are equal before the law" is a general principle in this country, how do I get a fair treatment in the court?

I said I expect fair treatment in the court, I did not say that I expect the court to accept English documents otherwise it would be unfair (which is Treverus's claim). There are many possible answers to question 2: maybe the court will provide a translator, or maybe I'll need to find a translator, or something else I don't know - that's the whole point of asking this question.

And indeed, question 3 shows that I did not insist that the court accept English documents:

3. If I do have to get the documents translated before getting treated fairly, what if I can't find / afford a translator? If the company loses, will they be obliged to pay all my expenses incurred by this ordeal, including cost of translation and legal consultations?

To summarise, "worrying about not getting a fair trial because of language barriers and asking how I can overcome this" does not equal to "expect the court to accept English documents otherwise it will be unfair". This is why the latter is a mischaracterisation.
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  #24  
Old 16.08.2020, 10:58
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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You seem to be implying that unless I explain why I got the betreibung in detail, you are not going to believe the premise of the original post that the betreibung action is harassment. That is fair. You are free not to believe my words, just as I am free not to tell you what happened for whatever reason (perhaps I don't want to have a court in this forum?).
.
I‘m implying nothing. I‘m asking what you ordered/bought and in what manner and circumstances. Why? To see if you case has a snowball in hell‘s chance of succeeding.

Like missoneypenny above: he/she due to lack of language knowledge ordered a cleaning company. The date and address were obviously advised to the cleaning company and concluded with the magic words „sounds OK“. What does that mean to you? „Yes that sounds OK“ or „No that sounds OK“??

Likewise your case. You would have a much better idea of success or failure if you explained what you fighting about...
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  #25  
Old 16.08.2020, 12:38
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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The reality is that English is not an official language in Switzerland, so everything settled in a court is going to be in German, French or Italian because those are official languages. All the laws are written in those languages.
... with the caveat that Cantons and towns define themselves which languages they accept. Biel/Bienne must accept German and French by its own law, it appears to be the only bigger town ("Stadt", at least 10k residents) with such a regulation. Expect Zürich, Canton and city, to accept German only.
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Old 16.08.2020, 13:06
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

It is very hard to give advice without understanding more about what the situation is. No-one is being negative here - but you are asking for advice without the necessary information.


So, in direct answer to your questions


1. No- English is not acceptable for legal evidence


2. You are equal as long as your accept 1.


3. And no, Switzerland, unlike UK, does not provide free translating services.


If you ordered goods or services, or signed a contract- without understanding the language and what you signed- the Law will not accept 'not understanding the language or what you signed'.


Sorry you are struggling with this issue, and I hope you will find a solution- but sadly no-one can help here- as no-one knows the circumstances.
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  #27  
Old 16.08.2020, 13:21
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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No-one is being negative here
Not sure what your definition of "being negative" is. Is the following comment not being negative?

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The arrogance of expecting the world to adapt to your lack of language skills is honestly funny.
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  #28  
Old 16.08.2020, 15:19
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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1. No- English is not acceptable for legal evidence

[...]

3. And no, Switzerland, unlike UK, does not provide free translating services.
1. Depending on circumstance, yes it perfectly is. Specially in a civil law suit.

3. Does the UK provide free translating services in a civil law suit?


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1. Will my evidence / proof / documents be understood by the court if it is in English?
Hi egikonwil,
So far I did no say or ask anything about you r particular case. But one thing which jumped out in your very first post is the above. I really can not understand what kind of evidences or proofs in English language you have wich could help your case.

First and foremost it would be the claiming party which has to produce evidence that there was actually a contractual obligation. This can be as simple as "Egikonwil owes us money." If you do not dispute this claim it is considered a fact and you legally owe them the claimed amount. If you never communicated with the other company there should be no evidences of a contract on either said. If you only communicated verbally it might also be hard to produce evidence but in that case there might have been other action such as services which have been performed.

If there is no contractual obligation there should be no evidences at all. So how come there are so called evidences that you do not owe them money? Did you pay them? Or did you cancel the contract in good time and according the contract terms and condition? Why are your evidences in English? Did you communicate in English with them and did they as well communicate in English with you?
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  #29  
Old 16.08.2020, 16:54
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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Hello
I had a similier experience when I was first over here, regarding apartment cleaning. I phone one to get a quote and they said can do it for xxxCHf and I did not agree over the phone except say sounds ok and I assumed they would send somev body around to see the size of the apartment and to confirm the price.


No one turned up at all and when it was my time to leave, the owner said no need to clean apartment as they are doing a complete decoration.
As I had not heard from the cleaning company I assumed they had just forgotten. But unfortunately for me they just assumed I had formally agree several weeks before and turned up after I had left the apartment to do the cleaning.
They were going to charge me the full price even though they had not confirmed in writing or verbally.
I had to take this cleaning company to tribunal, like you were doing and all the proceeding were in Swiss language which I did not understand at all, but
I took a girl friend with me who was Swiss and she helped translate was was going on.
Long story short in the end I settled the matter by paying off the cleaning company for slightly less than the original bill. After I had paid, the tribunal judge said to my friend he would not have paid and taking it to court.
But as others have said it would probably have cost me more paying for a legal brief and translation of documents etc.
If I am a service provider and someone says “sounds ok” to me about a quoted price would I assume that we made a deal - oral agreements are just as good as written ones in Switzerland... and very common. The company planned their resources which need to get paid and showed up as agreed. Clearly a misunderstanding, but not what I would call malicious at all.
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  #30  
Old 16.08.2020, 17:08
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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You expect the court to accept your statement in a language that isn’t an official language in Switzerland. Otherwise is would be “unfair”. Can you imagine any Spanish, Polish or other immigrant complaining that a Zurich court doesn’t speak their language? Me neither. That’s a Anglo Saxon thing.
I'm a lawyer - there's numerous countries that don't have English as an official language whose systems allow the filing of evidence in English. It's not a stupid question. Especially as English has sort of a unique unofficial place here. E.g. Ch.ch being available in the 4 official languages and English.

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  #31  
Old 16.08.2020, 18:03
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

"Swiss judges are multilingual"
https://www.brennerbasisdemokratie.eu/?p=13073

lots of info on court proceedings
https://www.legalink.ch/xms/files/CR...witzerland.pdf

"Introducing English as a possible language in setting-aside proceedings before the Swiss Supreme Court: a good idea?"
http://arbitrationblog.practicallaw....t-a-good-idea/
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  #32  
Old 16.08.2020, 22:51
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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If I am a service provider and someone says “sounds ok” to me about a quoted price would I assume that we made a deal - oral agreements are just as good as written ones in Switzerland... and very common. The company planned their resources which need to get paid and showed up as agreed. Clearly a misunderstanding, but not what I would call malicious at all.
I don't agree. This company sounds very dodgy and scammy. I've never dealt with any company in Switzerland that behaves like this, though the company I am fighting is malicious in other ways.
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Old 16.08.2020, 23:01
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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"Swiss judges are multilingual"
https://www.brennerbasisdemokratie.eu/?p=13073

lots of info on court proceedings
https://www.legalink.ch/xms/files/CR...witzerland.pdf

"Introducing English as a possible language in setting-aside proceedings before the Swiss Supreme Court: a good idea?"
http://arbitrationblog.practicallaw....t-a-good-idea/
Thanks for the links. Very useful. It's good the interpretor services might be available, according to the document in the second link.
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  #34  
Old 16.08.2020, 23:53
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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I don't agree. This company sounds very dodgy and scammy. I've never dealt with any company in Switzerland that behaves like this, though the company I am fighting is malicious in other ways.
Really? With how many craftsmen have you dealt with then? Making an oral contract is the norm, not the exception in CH. If you get a written offer should you take it as an estimate, not written in stone... the final bill is typically 10-20% more and yes, that’s legal.

Yes, this Swiss way is based on trust and if you really want to can you go to court and they can’t proof that you said yes... so you win. You wouldn’t find another cleaner in a 50km radius afterwards. Because that’s how CH works. Have you been in the country for long?
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Old 17.08.2020, 17:28
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Re: Harrassed by a predatory company through Betreibung

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If I am a service provider and someone says “sounds ok” to me about a quoted price would I assume that we made a deal - oral agreements are just as good as written ones in Switzerland... and very common. The company planned their resources which need to get paid and showed up as agreed. Clearly a misunderstanding, but not what I would call malicious at all.
There's no contract if the other party has yet to confirm the price, especially if they need to inspect the apartment first. Until that has happened and the price confirmed and agreed upon by missmoneypenny everything's provisional and non-binding, s/he's been had over a barrel.
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