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Old 17.08.2020, 12:48
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Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

Seems the forum has a propensity of threads periodically popping up to take a prejudiced swing at the people of the country in which we reside. We do not however have any threads on the introspection needed/recommended for anglophones who have made the choice to move here yet fail to integrate/assimilate or carry on without incessant complaining & finger pointing.

The masters of outright aggression & arrogance who perseverate over their habitually annoying habits/expectations while living/profiting in Switzerland - what can or should these myopic souls do for assistance?
  1. Learn the local language - no one has any excuse not to have learned basic words like hello, thank you, please
  2. Learn the local culture
  3. Abandon the precepts that everything here needs to conform to what you were used to. If you moved here it should be predicated on the assumption that you will need to adapt, not the other way around
  4. Suisse are not really into small talk like anglophones are - friendships require an investment of time to develop. The reputation is that you do not care much about Suisse so hiding your ignorance and making an effort can be rewarded in the long run. Patience


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Old 17.08.2020, 13:02
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

Is this rant driven by the Barcelona:Bayern game this weekend?
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Old 17.08.2020, 13:20
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

On #3: let's start with smoking

I'm not a smoker. I usually don't mind if people is smoking on the street, on open areas in the train station, or a restaurant terrace. Sometimes with really strong cigars I've asked to the waiter for another table, either the waiter finds another table or the smoker catches message and we're all happy. People visiting your place excuse themselves when they go to the balcony for a cigarette. During 7 years I only remember 2 times where smokers were really annoying, both of them on winter. Once in a little glass house to protect from wind and rain in a train station and once waiting for a table in a restaurant (not indoors but also not outdoors).

The system in place to keep non-smokers away from cigarette smoke works more than fine, anyway......people finds a way to get offended by others, even when others smoke inside their homes
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Old 17.08.2020, 13:23
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

I was an antisocial bastard in the UK and I'm an antisocial bastard here, working out pretty well
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Old 17.08.2020, 13:32
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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Smalltalk
No.

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Discuss
Yes!
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Old 17.08.2020, 13:39
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

I'm not quite sure why someone isn't 'allowed' to criticize a culture or aspects of that culture or country or say anything negative about it simply because they weren't born there. I think that everyone would probably find positives and negatives about any country that they live in.

Personally, I consider myself very fortunate to live in Switzerland. But is it perfect? Of course not... And nor do I think that I should be expected to pretend that it is. Even my Swiss husband makes jokes about the culture here sometimes. But one thing I have learned is to try to count my blessings before anything else. I could spend an eternity searching for the perfect place, but considering the sh**hole where I was born (that being the US), I think Switzerland is a bit of a utopia in comparison.
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Old 17.08.2020, 13:43
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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A whole culture of entitlement.

Even entitlement to be integrated by a new culture, without working for it.
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Old 17.08.2020, 13:47
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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I'm not quite sure why someone isn't 'allowed' to criticize a culture or aspects of that culture or country or say anything negative about it simply because they weren't born there. I think that everyone would probably find positives and negatives about any country that they live in.
true, we can criticise it here and it is the English Forum afterall. But it does get tiresome after a while with the same complaints. And as OP mentioned it does help if you try to learn the language (or one of them) Having lived here then left for a long period and now returned I observed most of my expat friends are still here. So most of them do like it here (as opposed to other countries where expats leave after 2-5 yrs)

it might help if we had some more Swiss voices here (where is wollishofner? he was always a good voice of reason when we needed the swiss input)
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Old 17.08.2020, 13:48
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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Seems the forum has a propensity of threads periodically popping up to take a prejudiced swing at the people of the country in which we reside.
True. I find them dumb as well.
Quote:
We do not however have any threads on the introspection needed/recommended for anglophones who have made the choice to move here yet fail to integrate/assimilate or carry on without incessant complaining & finger pointing.
I bet we do. But even if we don't we do have people, such as myself, who make exactly that recommendation and tell people to stop whining.
Quote:
Learn the local language - no one has any excuse not to have learned basic words like hello, thank you, please

Learn the local culture
Definitely.
Quote:
Abandon the precepts that everything here needs to conform to what you were used to. If you moved here it should be predicated on the assumption that you will need to adapt, not the other way around
Jein... it's not wrong however to identify ways in which Switzerland could learn from other cultures and suggest them.
Quote:
Suisse are not really into small talk like anglophones are - friendships require an investment of time to develop. The reputation is that you do not care much about Suisse so hiding your ignorance and making an effort can be rewarded in the long run.
Dunno really. I've got Swiss friends.I'm not really aware of it being difficult.

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Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance
Offensive. You are tarring all Anglophones with the same brush.
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Old 17.08.2020, 13:52
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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[*]Learn the local culture
[*]Abandon the precepts that everything here needs to conform to what you were used to. If you moved here it should be predicated on the assumption that you will need to adapt, not the other way around

Rather a shame the UK doesn't enforce these ideals too. When I came here, I had a meeting with a local councillor to go through intergration...something they had just started to do..it was simplistic and as I am British they skipped many parts as unnecessary...i.e. all sexes are equal, all religions are equal etc.....

However, when I was a councillor myself on my local council, I was asked along with my colleagues to have intergration training for people moving to the area from abroad and it was suggested this would be mandatory....so we could understand THEIR cultures and religions...almost all of us declined, seems the council dropped the idea shortly afterwards.
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Old 17.08.2020, 14:07
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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However, when I was a councillor myself on my local council, I was asked along with my colleagues to have intergration training for people moving to the area from abroad and it was suggested this would be mandatory....so we could understand THEIR cultures and religions...almost all of us declined, seems the council dropped the idea shortly afterwards.
When such a thing was introduced by my employer, when offshoring was ramping up, there was quite a bit of resistance. "Hey, we're paying THEM to adapt".
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Old 17.08.2020, 14:08
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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Offensive. You are tarring all Anglophones with the same brush.
Indeed, a bit similar to all the threads generalizing about the Swiss
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Old 17.08.2020, 14:21
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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Seems the forum has a propensity of threads periodically popping up to take a prejudiced swing at the people of the country in which we reside. We do not however have any threads on the introspection needed/recommended for anglophones who have made the choice to move here yet fail to integrate/assimilate or carry on without incessant complaining & finger pointing.

The masters of outright aggression & arrogance who perseverate over their habitually annoying habits/expectations while living/profiting in Switzerland - what can or should these myopic souls do for assistance?
  1. Learn the local language - no one has any excuse not to have learned basic words like hello, thank you, please
  2. Learn the local culture
  3. Abandon the precepts that everything here needs to conform to what you were used to. If you moved here it should be predicated on the assumption that you will need to adapt, not the other way around
  4. Suisse are not really into small talk like anglophones are - friendships require an investment of time to develop. The reputation is that you do not care much about Suisse so hiding your ignorance and making an effort can be rewarded in the long run. Patience


Discuss

That is as old as time itself ( well almost), I have (as a born and bred Swiss) written elaborately in various media channels about this and treid also to explain some, often unwritten,rules, traditions, behaviours of the Swiss to the various Expats ... already 20 yrs ago.

Not much has changed in two decades.....
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Old 17.08.2020, 14:26
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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Indeed, a bit similar to all the threads generalizing about the Swiss
I think they do that themselves to a certain extent.

When someone asks why things are done in a certain, special way, quite often the answer, from one of the Swiss on the forum is "Because that's the way we do it here".
If that isn't generalising then I don't know what is.

For most way things are described here criticizing the Swiss , I've experienced the opposite - Swiss neighbours have been great - in and out of our place, spontaneous dinner and or drink invitations, no notes (unless we are out).

To be honest, all the good way people behave here I've experienced in other cultures and all the bad ways that people have criticized the locals, I've experienced too in other cultures.
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Old 17.08.2020, 14:40
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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For most way things are described here criticizing the Swiss , I've experienced the opposite - Swiss neighbours have been great - in and out of our place, spontaneous dinner and or drink invitations, no notes (unless we are out).

To be honest, all the good way people behave here I've experienced in other cultures and all the bad ways that people have criticized the locals, I've experienced too in other cultures.
I agree.
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Old 17.08.2020, 14:49
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

Is the Anglophone the one that lets you make free calls to the UK, US and Australia/NZ? Where can I get one?
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Old 17.08.2020, 14:49
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

After talking with some locals, I've found the Swiss also get tired of some things from here. Some of them go for vacation, others go live somewhere else. Some people always points at the amount of foreigners in CH, but the number of Swiss abroad is also interesting, almost 800K or 11% of Swiss citizens. https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/fdfa...tatistics.html

I usually drive in a courteous way.... I went home for vacation last month and 30 min later after I got behind the wheel I was driving like my fellow country people. In some sense these times abroad are a relief or provide some perspective, when you're back here all the rules seem to be not thaaaaaat bad. It's easier to not make noise in the apartment in CH when you made a lot of noise somewhere else. The itch was scratched.

My guess is that a lot of locals and expats did not have the relief of going abroad for the summer, everything feels oppressive, a lot of stress and frustration in the air, thus all the complaints.
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Old 17.08.2020, 15:04
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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Indeed, a bit similar to all the threads generalizing about the Swiss
Ah I see. Satire. Fair enough.
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Old 17.08.2020, 15:07
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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Seems the forum has a propensity of threads periodically popping up to take a prejudiced swing at the people of the country in which we reside. We do not however have any threads on the introspection needed/recommended for anglophones who have made the choice to move here yet fail to integrate/assimilate or carry on without incessant complaining & finger pointing.

The masters of outright aggression & arrogance who perseverate over their habitually annoying habits/expectations while living/profiting in Switzerland - what can or should these myopic souls do for assistance?
  1. Learn the local language - no one has any excuse not to have learned basic words like hello, thank you, please
  2. Learn the local culture
  3. Abandon the precepts that everything here needs to conform to what you were used to. If you moved here it should be predicated on the assumption that you will need to adapt, not the other way around
  4. Suisse are not really into small talk like anglophones are - friendships require an investment of time to develop. The reputation is that you do not care much about Suisse so hiding your ignorance and making an effort can be rewarded in the long run. Patience


Discuss
So your post is against all English speaking people who come to Switzerland to live and work?

Sorry but that seems pretty arrogant and aggressive to me...
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Old 17.08.2020, 15:10
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Re: Anglophones people. The masters of aggression & arrogance

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Is the Anglophone the one that lets you make free calls to the UK, US and Australia/NZ? Where can I get one?
No, it's the one that english speakers use to call abroad, you have to speak VERY LOUDLY AND SLOWLY TO BE UNDERSTOOD.
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