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  #41  
Old 18.08.2020, 16:38
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Yep make your apartment into a Faraday cage and it should keep the transmissions down. If you want to keep using your phone you might be best served installing the cage around the mast itself.
I thought of that too. Could be a fun factor. "Yeah sure, install your thing on my house" then shield it off.
After all, does it say in those contracts one is not allowed to use the rest of one's roof freely?
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  #42  
Old 18.08.2020, 17:04
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Re: 5G tower on roof

You could do what Chuck McGill (Better Call Saul) did, though it didn't end well for him.
https://www.rfsafe.com/better-call-s...ersensitivity/
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  #43  
Old 18.08.2020, 17:58
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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You could do what Chuck McGill (Better Call Saul) did, though it didn't end well for him.
https://www.rfsafe.com/better-call-s...ersensitivity/
I wouldn't believe a word from someone who writes and makes a business around "Electromagnetic hypersensitivity".
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  #44  
Old 18.08.2020, 18:06
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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I wouldn't believe a word from someone who writes and makes a business around "Electromagnetic hypersensitivity".
Generally anyone in the entertainment industry's opinion is irrelevant. Unless they take the time to provide peer reviewed resources for AND against what they are trying to claim.

Again, to be clear here, my concern has nothing to do with pseudo science.

I just want the resources to make sure the planning of this new tower had all the Ts and Is crossed and dotted. And curiosity about exactly what the regulations are and how they came to those standards.

Health wise, I still see quite the risk being in close vicinity to these transmitters, but we'll see what the actual installation brings.
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  #45  
Old 18.08.2020, 18:26
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Re: 5G tower on roof

A co-worker is member of this club:


https://ohne5g.ch/


You can probably ask there for guidance on coaxing information out of the authorities.
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  #46  
Old 18.08.2020, 19:10
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Thanks Pancakes, some good information there.


What I'm more interested in our close vicinity to the actual tower


From your forbes article:



"Still, the best measure that they can take is to simply have a small exclusion zone around the radio masts (or towers) that emit the most powerful signals for this type of radiation. So long as that exclusion zone is about 10 meters in all directions, any humans outside of the zone will undoubtedly be safe."


The majority of our flat is a lot closer than 10 m of the proposed tower.
I remember reading that bit (about the 10 meter distance) and wondering how far away you are from it, exactly. From what I read in those articles, though, it looks like that amount of radiation is only enough to possibly cause a slight increase in temperature. The radiation is still not ionized, so there shouldn't be any risk of cancer, etc.

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You really are not doing yourself any favours by including EMF in that field.
Electromagentic fields are, unlike the quack treatments in your list, and as I'm sure you are aware, a known physical phenomenon that both exists in nature and is used in many areas today from lighting to X-Ray machines, contactless payments, radios, mobile phones, heart-rate monitors, and thousands of other appliances.

Perhaps a re-phrasing would be in order:

.....(whether we're talking about pseudoscientific-effects of EMF, homeopathy, reiki, you-name-it).

My slogan: "EMF - as natural as the rays from the sun that brighten up your morning!"
Very true. The electromagnetic field also permeates the entire universe, including ourselves. If you consider it in the context of Feynman's quantum electrodynamics, every chemical in our body is the result of photons / the EM field constantly interacting with the electrons of our atoms.

Just to sneak in a quote by my favorite physicist and from one of my favorite books:

“Most of the phenomena you are familiar with involve the interaction of light and electrons-all of chemistry and biology, for example. The only phenomena that are not covered by this theory are phenomena of gravitation and nuclear phenomena; everything else is contained in this theory.”
― Richard Feynman, QED: The Strange Theory of Light and Matter
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  #47  
Old 18.08.2020, 19:42
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Generally anyone in the entertainment industry's opinion is irrelevant. Unless they take the time to provide peer reviewed resources for AND against what they are trying to claim.

Again, to be clear here, my concern has nothing to do with pseudo science.

I just want the resources to make sure the planning of this new tower had all the Ts and Is crossed and dotted. And curiosity about exactly what the regulations are and how they came to those standards.

Health wise, I still see quite the risk being in close vicinity to these transmitters, but we'll see what the actual installation brings.
Your concern is a perfectly valid concern, and you made a very specific question. I was referring to the website that SqueezeTheCroc linked to, which says that radio waves cause all sorts of cancer.
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Old 18.08.2020, 19:51
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Your concern is a perfectly valid concern, and you made a very specific question. I was referring to the website that SqueezeTheCroc linked to, which says that radio waves cause all sorts of cancer.
Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was trying to be funny but it didn't work out! I only pasted the link because it mentions the fictional character Chuck McGill from Better Call Saul (Netflix) who suffered from 'electromagnetic hypersensitivity'. Tbh I didn't read the article, the link was just a reminder about Chuck. It wasn't meant to taken seriously at all. I'm going away now.
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  #49  
Old 18.08.2020, 19:54
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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I wouldn't believe a word from someone who writes and makes a business around "Electromagnetic hypersensitivity".
Here's my apology again: Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was trying to be funny but it didn't work out! I only pasted the link because it mentions the fictional character Chuck McGill from Better Call Saul (Netflix) who suffered from 'electromagnetic hypersensitivity'. Tbh I didn't read the article, the link was just a reminder about Chuck. It wasn't meant to taken seriously at all. I'm going away now, and I'm going to write 100 lines of "Don't make stupid jokes on EF".
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  #50  
Old 18.08.2020, 20:01
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Here's my apology again: Sorry, sorry, sorry. I was trying to be funny but it didn't work out! I only pasted the link because it mentions the fictional character Chuck McGill from Better Call Saul (Netflix) who suffered from 'electromagnetic hypersensitivity'. Tbh I didn't read the article, the link was just a reminder about Chuck. It wasn't meant to taken seriously at all. I'm going away now, and I'm going to write 100 lines of "Don't make stupid jokes on EF".
. Sorry, I thought it was a serious answer.
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  #51  
Old 18.08.2020, 21:10
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Re: 5G tower on roof

Actually, "Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity" (EHS) is something that even the World Health Organization has taken seriously, or at least seriously enough to write a lengthy report about it and also offer a workshop. Here, they report their findings and some of the various studies that have been done regarding EHS:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yNngiutewEE9nm

Also, it has been found that humans have cryptochromes (CRY) in their retinas (cryptochromes are what allow birds to navigate via magnetic fields -- otherwise known as magnetoreception) and it has been found that cryptochromes in humans can make some of them sensitive to light and magnetic fields. These cryptochromes are also what help regulate our circadian rhythms, which is in part dependent upon our sensitivity to light.

"Thus, human CRY has the molecular capability to function as a light-sensitive magnetosensor, and this finding may lead to a renewed interest in human magnetoreception."

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms1364

And the following paper, co-authored by numerous biologists, etc., found the following:

"We conclude that modulation of intracellular ROS via cryptochromes represents a general response to weak EMFs, which can account for either therapeutic or pathological effects depending on exposure. Clinically, our findings provide a rationale to optimize low field magnetic stimulation for novel therapeutic applications while warning against the possibility of harmful synergistic effects with environmental agents that further increase intracellular ROS."

Source:
Low-intensity electromagnetic fields induce human cryptochrome to modulate intracellular reactive oxygen species
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...l.pbio.2006229
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  #52  
Old 18.08.2020, 21:19
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Also, it has been found that humans have cryptochromes (CRY) in their retinas (cryptochromes are what allow birds to navigate via magnetic fields -- otherwise known as magnetoreception) and it has been found that cryptochromes in humans can make some of them sensitive to light and magnetic fields. These cryptochromes are also what help regulate our circadian rhythms, which is in part dependent upon our sensitivity to light.

"Thus, human CRY has the molecular capability to function as a light-sensitive magnetosensor, and this finding may lead to a renewed interest in human magnetoreception."

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms1364
Which isn't the same as saying that humans, when exposed to emf from mobile phones and wifi, exhibit physical symptoms.

The paper published in Nature to which you provided a link was from experiments done on flies.

There's a lot more work to be done.
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  #53  
Old 18.08.2020, 21:29
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Actually, "Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity" (EHS) is something that even the World Health Organization has taken seriously, or at least seriously enough to write a lengthy report about it and also offer a workshop. Here, they report their findings and some of the various studies that have been done regarding EHS:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...yNngiutewEE9nm
I'm afraid my interpretation differs wildly from yours when it comes to the WHO workshop. I see that the topic was discussed for a long time ("For some time a number of individuals have reported a variety of health problems that they relate to their exposure to EMF", page 1), and therefore scientists sat down to discuss it. They brough SME's to present evidence, and in the summary on page 4 they said:

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Research recommendations

Because EMF has not been established as a causative factor for symptoms of IEI individuals, the focus of research should be on characterizing their physiological responses.
In the second paragraph they even add:

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To date provocation studies with double blind exposure sessions have failed to verify a causal relationship between electric, magnetic or electromagnetic fields and symptoms.
In other words, there's currently 0 evidence to suggest that this syndrome is not cause by other agents, and not EMF.

On the other hand, the study about retinal tissue seems interesting, and although the relationship between a small tissue in the retina and the alleged symptoms seems farfetched to me (I have no biological background), there are some interesting questions, e.g.: why is treatment with pulsated EMF effective for some conditions, but "uncapable" of causing negative effects? Biology is not my field, and I have a hard time following the details of the study.

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The paper published in Nature to which you provided a link was from experiments done on flies.
In the second quoted paper, they did some tests with in-vitro human embryonic kidney cells.

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After incubation, the extracellular media were scored for secreted hydrogen peroxide (H2O2), a byproduct of ROS formation, using the Amplex Ultra Red fluorescence detection substrate as described [35]. The concentration of ROS was significantly elevated in media from PEMF-treated cell cultures compared to controls (Fig 2). To evaluate toxicity of prolonged exposure to PEMF, we counted cells at the end of the exposure period (see Materials and methods). A marked decrease in cellular growth was observed in PEMF-exposed HEK293 cultures compared to untreated controls, consistent with the toxicity of accumulated ROS (Fig 2).
Not my field, but this opens quite a few questions, particularly related to dose used in the test, and to relevance (most anthropogenic EMF doesn't even penetrate the skin). I'd love to hear from a subject-matter expert.
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  #54  
Old 19.08.2020, 15:32
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Lucky you... wish they'd put one on my roof!!!
not good, you will not get a good reception from it too close
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Old 19.08.2020, 15:35
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Also some backing if we can push for a rent reduction :P as I'm sure the building owners will be collecting some rent on the tower, on our roof.
Thanks
The owner will not necessarily get any dividend from the antenna.
The roof may be own by some else.

I remember in Sydney, developers selling appartement and keeping ownership of the roof.
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Old 19.08.2020, 16:33
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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I wouldn't believe a word from someone who writes and makes a business around "Electromagnetic hypersensitivity".

You get that was a fictional character in a series though right?

Who ironically also couldn't detect the waves in a blind test either in the show as others who have claimed to have that problem have also been unable to do.
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  #57  
Old 19.08.2020, 17:41
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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The owner will not necessarily get any dividend from the antenna.
The roof may be own by some else.

I remember in Sydney, developers selling appartement and keeping ownership of the roof.

Well this is a tough one to wrap my head around.

I know who the owner of the building is, they own the building. If someone is putting an antenna on the building that they own, they will charge a fee for this and this owner of the building will receive compensation.

Or am I missing something.

Edit: Developer vs Owner. I see it now. From my understanding the owner was also the developer...Lets just say they have deep pockets and many such developments.
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Old 19.08.2020, 17:41
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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You get that was a fictional character in a series though right?

Who ironically also couldn't detect the waves in a blind test either in the show as others who have claimed to have that problem have also been unable to do.
That ONE reference to the TV show, yes. The rest of the website is unrelated to the show, and the owner sells "insulating" accesories for phones. Which if they did filter out EMF, would render the phones useless.
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Old 19.08.2020, 17:46
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Well this is a tough one to wrap my head around.

I know who the owner of the building is, they own the building. If someone is putting an antenna on the building that they own, they will charge a fee for this and this owner of the building will receive compensation.

Or am I missing something
It looks like in your case it's one owner, so I imagine you are right.
I the case I described it was a flats sold in a building and the builder kept ownership of the roof.
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Old 21.08.2020, 12:06
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Re: 5G tower on roof

As one of the previous posters said, rather have the antenna on my roof than my neighbour's. The antennas are directional and are going to send most of their power out horizontally or slightly beamed downwards, to give maximum availability of signal to a maximum number of people. The power you get below the antenna is what is leaked out from the beam (whilst directional, not as much as say a light beam).
Also don't forget the phone that's in your pocket. That's a couple of centimetres away from you, whereas any antenna is going to be tens of metres away. The amount of power you receive goes down as the square of the distance from the radiating device, so although the phone radiates little power, a lot more of it is going to hit you proportionally than that from the antenna. Also the phone adjusts the power it admits as a function of the signal strength of the antenna. If you have an antenna near you, the phone can get away using less power, which is obviously a good thing in many ways.
Finally 5G is using essentially the same transmission frequencies as existing systems do. Indeed the shutdown of 2G is the result of 5G making use of that part of the spectrum. If you've survived 2G, 3G and 4G, you'll almost also survive 5G.
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