Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 24.06.2021, 06:41
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,572
Groaned at 284 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 24,693 Times in 10,434 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
It appears that we will be getting a 5G antenna on our roof.


It won't be very tall, so it seems to be about 5 m above our floor level.


Apart from being an eyesore (NIMBY meh), does anyone have some input to any issues we should be concerned about.


Not looking for conspiracy theories, or pseudo science, more insight onto the near-field radiation etc.


Also some backing if we can push for a rent reduction :P as I'm sure the building owners will be collecting some rent on the tower, on our roof.


Thanks
Also depending on how your building is, there may be the question of access for technicians , routing of cables etc .

And of course loss of roof space if that was your favorite secret spot for naked sunbathing
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 24.06.2021, 07:26
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,099
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,950 Times in 764 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
Nope, Project Gutenberg is geoblocked in Germany...... WTF?
Odd. How about Open Library? https://openlibrary.org/works/OL118420W/Flatland
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 30.06.2021, 03:41
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: zug
Posts: 94
Groaned at 30 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 61 Times in 34 Posts
LakeSwimmer has made some interesting contributions
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
I don't think this is a very good generalization. Let's do a little grade school lesson:

What is the cooking wavelengths of a microwave oven?
Would you stand directly in front of an operating microwave oven missing it's door screen?


Now the actual question at hand:

How far away from this open operating microwave would be considered safe?


(I hope you're not a real physicist :P although a bit of the clueless writing style does lend to a professional scientist)
Just to clarify without agenda.

A microwave oven wavelength 12cm (industrial 30cm)
5g wavelength 1mm

Agreed?
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 30.06.2021, 07:39
Caleb's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,099
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,950 Times in 764 Posts
Caleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond reputeCaleb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
A microwave oven wavelength 12cm (industrial 30cm)
5g wavelength 1mm
Interesting. The reason for the chosen oven wavelength is because it's designed to heat water (free water molecules, which spin when excited by the oven, and hit other molecules, dispersing the heat), therefore the oven needs to use the water's resonant frequency. Using a higher frequency (as you mentioned about industrial ovens) would mean that they would be unable to penetrate as deep. I wonder what the logic for the "industrial oven" frequency is.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 30.06.2021, 08:33
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,141
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 4,935 Times in 2,231 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
Just to clarify without agenda.

A microwave oven wavelength 12cm (industrial 30cm)
5g wavelength 1mm

Agreed?
Absolutely agree.

I still don't want to be next to an unshielded microwave oven or a 5G tower for an extended period of time.
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 30.06.2021, 08:39
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,430
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
Interesting. The reason for the chosen oven wavelength is because it's designed to heat water (free water molecules, which spin when excited by the oven, and hit other molecules, dispersing the heat), therefore the oven needs to use the water's resonant frequency. Using a higher frequency (as you mentioned about industrial ovens) would mean that they would be unable to penetrate as deep. I wonder what the logic for the "industrial oven" frequency is.
i'm guessing that it isn't all absorbed at the surface and so some penetrate deeper and absorbed deeper allowing for cooking of larger pieces.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #127  
Old 30.06.2021, 08:47
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,430
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,156 Times in 7,618 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

also see this re: faraday cages: https://physicsworld.com/a/are-farad...ously-thought/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #128  
Old 01.07.2021, 11:04
speakeron's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: 2.72548 K
Posts: 1,597
Groaned at 40 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 1,559 Times in 774 Posts
speakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond reputespeakeron has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
Just to clarify without agenda.

A microwave oven wavelength 12cm (industrial 30cm)
5g wavelength 1mm

Agreed?
Switzerland uses 3.5GHz[1] for 5G, not 30GHz. This has a wavelength of about 8.5cm.

[1] https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en/...equencies.html
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 01.07.2021, 11:13
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,718
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,497 Times in 2,055 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
Just to clarify without agenda.

A microwave oven wavelength 12cm (industrial 30cm)
5g wavelength 1mm

Agreed?
Quote:
View Post
Switzerland uses 3.5GHz[1] for 5G, not 30GHz. This has a wavelength of about 8.5cm.

[1] https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en/...equencies.html
Actually 1mm = 300GHz which is not even in the theoretical 5G range at the moment, and quite probably never will be due to atmospheric attenuation. It's really only useful for very high bandwidth point-to-point comms with high gain antennas.

1cm = 30GHz would be in range, but still not used in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 04.07.2021, 03:34
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: zug
Posts: 94
Groaned at 30 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 61 Times in 34 Posts
LakeSwimmer has made some interesting contributions
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
Actually 1mm = 300GHz which is not even in the theoretical 5G range at the moment, and quite probably never will be due to atmospheric attenuation. It's really only useful for very high bandwidth point-to-point comms with high gain antennas.

1cm = 30GHz would be in range, but still not used in Switzerland.
?? Wrong. maybe you can explain frequency and wavelength in terms you understand
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 04.07.2021, 06:46
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,572
Groaned at 284 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 24,693 Times in 10,434 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

It’s not just about the wavelength but also about it’s energy or intensity .

Remember that for a conical antenna / field the amplitude decreases with the square of the distance . For a spherical field with the cube of the distance .

That means at 30 m you are down to 1/900 respectively 1/27000 of what you have at 1m .

The field is of course neither conical nor spherical but something convoluted having a bit of both .

The thing with 5G is precisely that there is so much attenuation that it is going to require a large number of antennas everywhere to assure a reasonable coverage . If the fields were as powerful and all penetrating as is sometimes suggested they could make do with far fewer antennas
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 04.07.2021, 09:10
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,718
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,497 Times in 2,055 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
?? Wrong. maybe you can explain frequency and wavelength in terms you understand
300 GHz = 3e11 Hz
Speed of light = 3e8 m/s

Wavelength = c / f = 3e8 / 3e11 = 1e-3 = 0.001m = 1mm

Or you can just Google it if you don't believe the physics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_high_frequency

What's your alternative understanding? I'm keen to hear a new theory of physics, or maybe about new universe with a different speed of light.

Last edited by newtoswitz; 04.07.2021 at 09:48.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 08.07.2021, 01:56
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: zug
Posts: 94
Groaned at 30 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 61 Times in 34 Posts
LakeSwimmer has made some interesting contributions
Re: 5G tower on roof

Quote:
View Post
300 GHz = 3e11 Hz
Speed of light = 3e8 m/s

Wavelength = c / f = 3e8 / 3e11 = 1e-3 = 0.001m = 1mm

Or you can just Google it if you don't believe the physics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_high_frequency

What's your alternative understanding? I'm keen to hear a new theory of physics, or maybe about new universe with a different speed of light.

My alternative understanding is only scoffing when told

“Let's do a little grade school lesson:
Would you stand directly in front of an operating microwave oven missing it's door screen?”

Just ridiculous.

You can cut and paste random stuff you dont understand (as i dont ) but don’t pretend to know.

eg. At typical power densities they are blocked by building walls and suffer significant attenuation passing through foliage.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Expedition roof rack for Defender with two roof tents aymandel Items for sale 9 18.07.2020 08:08
Big roof box with roof bars for sale (mounted on Land Rover Discovery) V__ Items for sale 2 25.07.2019 22:23
Free: Roof box and roof rack (Horgen) mydi Free stuff 2 12.09.2018 21:05
BMW Roof Box 460/350/320 & roof bars (Vaud) Foolindell Items for sale 3 02.10.2017 16:14
250Fr. Almost new roof box Kamei Husky L + Atera roof bars (fit many car models) jaymirl Items for sale 1 19.03.2017 20:05


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0