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Old 17.08.2020, 19:35
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5G tower on roof

It appears that we will be getting a 5G antenna on our roof.


It won't be very tall, so it seems to be about 5 m above our floor level.


Apart from being an eyesore (NIMBY meh), does anyone have some input to any issues we should be concerned about.


Not looking for conspiracy theories, or pseudo science, more insight onto the near-field radiation etc.


Also some backing if we can push for a rent reduction :P as I'm sure the building owners will be collecting some rent on the tower, on our roof.


Thanks
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Old 17.08.2020, 19:51
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Re: 5G tower on roof

If your are concerned about the field strength than it is better to have it on your roof than on the neighbors roof.
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Old 17.08.2020, 20:05
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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If your are concerned about the field strength than it is better to have it on your roof than on the neighbors roof.

Of course depending on where my neighbor is.



Which is why I am looking for a bit more logical intelligent input on what is involved.


Is there a certain 'safer' distance? What are the angles of transmission? Are these all tower dependent?
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Old 17.08.2020, 20:09
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Re: 5G tower on roof

Figure out which provider and change your subscription so that you have an awesome connection.


And of course wear a tin foil hat against chem trails, chinese spyware, nanobots and digital corona
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Old 17.08.2020, 20:31
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Figure out which provider and change your subscription so that you have an awesome connection.


And of course wear a tin foil hat against chem trails, chinese spyware, nanobots and digital corona

Was thinking about that, but from my understanding, directly under the tower is the worst possible connection.
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Old 17.08.2020, 20:37
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Re: 5G tower on roof

If you are generally not sensitive to these things I don't think you will be to this.

I unfortunately am very much so. If I use my handy as hotspot, I get very sick very quickly (minutes). BUT: Already when putting the handy in the next room, I can handle it. As the thing is on the roof - and even better you might not live top floor, right under it - even I would probably not worry too much about it.

As to scientific proof to get rent reduction I can't help as I never bothered finding out detailed reasons. I just know what makes me sick and what doesn't and avoid those things accordingly.
As to 5G I don't know yet for example if I'll suffer at all or not. I would like to try it out though. So feel free to invite me for a coffee once it's up there. I might not even stay long enough for the water to boil - although I sure hope it will be one of these things that won't bother me.
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Old 17.08.2020, 20:38
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Was thinking about that, but from my understanding, directly under the tower is the worst possible connection.
Which kind of answers your question about transmitting power strength and direction.
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Old 17.08.2020, 20:49
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Re: 5G tower on roof

Lucky you... wish they'd put one on my roof!!!
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Old 17.08.2020, 21:23
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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directly under the tower is the worst possible connection.
Chainsaw time.

Tom
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Old 17.08.2020, 21:30
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Not looking for pseudo science, more insight onto the near-field radiation etc.

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If you are generally not sensitive to these things I don't think you will be to this.

I unfortunately am very much so. If I use my handy as hotspot, I get very sick very quickly (minutes). BUT: Already when putting the handy in the next room, I can handle it. As the thing is on the roof - and even better you might not live top floor, right under it - even I would probably not worry too much about it.
Did you not get the memo?



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As to 5G I don't know yet for example if I'll suffer at all or not. I would like to try it out though. So feel free to invite me for a coffee once it's up there. I might not even stay long enough for the water to boil - although I sure hope it will be one of these things that won't bother me.
He ought to invite you up there before it is installed, but tell you it is, and then see whether your body 'reacts'.
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Old 17.08.2020, 22:21
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Re: 5G tower on roof

From what I've read about it, there doesn't seem to be too much to be concerned about. However, it appears to still be somewhat uncertain in regard to long-term exposure since that type of study can't really be done yet. 5G networks rely on signals carried by radio waves (similar to radios and TVs) and are non-iodizing, so they can't break chemical bonds and cause cellular damage.

There was a study done in the UK regarding the emission of EM radiation from 5G towers (link below) that published the following results and found that the towers did not cause a dramatic increase in EM radiation and in fact only increased the amount by a very small fraction (1.5%) of the maximum that is allowed and considered to be safe.:

"To date, we have carried out EMF measurements at 22 locations near 5G mobile phone base stations in 10 cities across the UK, including Belfast, Cardiff, Edinburgh and London. We have targeted this first set of measurements in areas where there are likely to be high levels of mobile phone use, including in and around major transport hubs and shopping centres. The base stations we visited all support a range of mobile technologies in addition to 5G, including 2G, 3G and 4G. The results so far indicate that:
•In all cases, the measured EMF levels from 5G-enabled mobile phone base stations are at small fractions of the levels identified in the ICNIRP Guidelines, the highest level recorded being approximately 1.5% of the relevant level;
•5G currently contributes a small amount to the EMF levels measured at each location. At all locations, the largest contribution to the measured levels comes from previous generations of mobile technology (2G, 3G, 4G). The highest level we observed in the band used for 5G was just 0.039% of the relevant level.

Electromagnetic Field (EMF) measurementsnear5G mobile phone base stations
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...st-summary.pdf

Also, this is a good article, titled "The Science Of Why 5G Is (Almost) Certainly Safe For Humans":
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startsw.../#49c7533f70e3

One of the things it points out is that you receive more radiation from being out in the sun than you do being near a 5G tower. It also says this: "...there are 4,500 people in the UK who work in close proximity to radiofrequency (RF) radiation. The RF exposure they're allowed to receive is five times that of the general population, and there is no evidence that they have higher rates of cancer or any other health problems that could possibly be attributable to WiFi radiation than any other population of humans."

I guess some people are more sensitive to the EM field than others, though... Maybe due to them having more cryptochromes than most people (I'm not sure, but that's a hypothesis of my own).
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Old 17.08.2020, 23:59
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Re: 5G tower on roof

Thanks Pancakes, some good information there.


What I'm more interested in our close vicinity to the actual tower


From your forbes article:



"Still, the best measure that they can take is to simply have a small exclusion zone around the radio masts (or towers) that emit the most powerful signals for this type of radiation. So long as that exclusion zone is about 10 meters in all directions, any humans outside of the zone will undoubtedly be safe."


The majority of our flat is a lot closer than 10 m of the proposed tower.
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Old 18.08.2020, 00:08
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Re: 5G tower on roof

There are a lot of concerns with millimetre wave technology, it affects the cells in our bodies and suppresses our immune system.

https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1053072...ctricSense.pdf
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Old 18.08.2020, 07:59
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Re: 5G tower on roof

As a physicist, these kind of questions and posts are a double-edge sword. I'll try to chip in with known, proven scientific facts, but there's a lot we don't know, as not every possible interaction has been subject to close scrutiny, study and measurement. I have no doubt that placebo works, and people either feel effects of whatever is being measured, whether or not the body has any chance of perceiving its impact, or naturally regress to the mean (whether we're talking about EMF, homeopathy, reiki, you-name-it). So I won't attempt to discredit anyone or anyone's feelings or experience.

Now to the question at hand: the 5G range is very similar to 4G, 3G and 2G (both in frequency and consequently also in energy). The entire range lies between radio and visible light. All types of electromagnetic radiation, from static magnetic fields (that of a regular magnet), or alternating magnetic fields (those produced by regular motors such as your hair dryer's), radio, microwaves, infrared and all the way up to visible light are called "non-ionizing", which means they are not harmful in any way. They "hit" your body like a soft, thin foam stick would poke you. It doesn't matter how hard you try to poke at someone with a thin, light-foam stick; it can't hurt them.

On the other hand, electromagnetic radiation that carries more energy than visible light (i.e. ultraviolet, x-rays and gamma waves) are collectively called "ionizing", because they carry enough power to remove electrons from whatever matter they hit...and can consequently cause harm. Just like too much sunbathing can burn your skin...it's the atom nuclei in UV hitting your skin and removing electrons from some atoms/molecules...therefore ionizing them.

But I'm digressing a bit. If radio waves can't hurt you, and visible light can't hurt you, neither will 5G waves.

There are tons of studies about the interaction of EMF and health, I just checked a few and suggest this one which measured the electromagnetic field near twenty-two 5G base stations in the UK. For some explanations of what "acceptable" levels are, check the WHO's explanation of how and why they established international guidelines, and finally what the acceptable EMF levels are in the ICNIRP guidelines themselves (ICNIRP is the International Commission on Non-ionizing Radiation Protection).
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Old 18.08.2020, 08:13
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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There are a lot of concerns with millimetre wave technology, it affects the cells in our bodies and suppresses our immune system.

https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/1053072...ctricSense.pdf
Some of the studies in the document you linked are interesting, and I'm surprised they haven't gained more traction in the 20 years since they were published. I'll check some out. On the flipside, most of the quotes in that document are either flat-out false, or incredibly misleading (e.g. the claim that the WHO classified EMF waves are carcinogenic type 2B, without explaining that the classification group 2B="Possibly carcinogenic to humans", as the lower probability of being carcinogenic after group 3 "Not classifiable as to its carcinogenicity to humans").
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Old 18.08.2020, 08:32
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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.... (whether we're talking about EMF, homeopathy, reiki, you-name-it)....
You really are not doing yourself any favours by including EMF in that field.
Electromagentic fields are, unlike the quack treatments in your list, and as I'm sure you are aware, a known physical phenomenon that both exists in nature and is used in many areas today from lighting to X-Ray machines, contactless payments, radios, mobile phones, heart-rate monitors, and thousands of other appliances.

Perhaps a re-phrasing would be in order:

.....(whether we're talking about pseudoscientific-effects of EMF, homeopathy, reiki, you-name-it).

My slogan: "EMF - as natural as the rays from the sun that brighten up your morning!"
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Old 18.08.2020, 09:10
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Re: 5G tower on roof

<yawn> got wifi in your appartment? you should be more worried about that then 5g
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Old 18.08.2020, 09:18
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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.....
The entire range lies between radio and visible light.
.....
But I'm digressing a bit. If radio waves can't hurt you, and visible light can't hurt you, neither will 5G waves.
....

I don't think this is a very good generalization. Let's do a little grade school lesson:

What is the cooking wavelengths of a microwave oven?
Would you stand directly in front of an operating microwave oven missing it's door screen?


Now the actual question at hand:

How far away from this open operating microwave would be considered safe?


(I hope you're not a real physicist :P although a bit of the clueless writing style does lend to a professional scientist)
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Old 18.08.2020, 09:35
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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Is there a certain 'safer' distance?
If you're looking for science here, at the moment the answer is "yes, the one you already have". Meaning that there have already been studies and measurements and the institutions have issued regulations and limits, and if an antenna has been approved for installation it means that it is legally safe, meaning that it is safe as much as the institutions could find out. Which is usually a lot, and documented. And believe me they're very careful when it comes to enforce limits!

Of course it doesn't mean that everything is 100% known and does not mean errors can not be made, but I don't see another number popping up here unless we enter the field of personal belief (which was not the request).

I apologize if I sound a bit rude here but I really think the question itself needed a comment.
For a more gentle answer I subscribe to Caleb's
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Old 18.08.2020, 09:48
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Re: 5G tower on roof

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If you're looking for science here, at the moment the answer is "yes, the one you already have". Meaning that there have already been studies and measurements and the institutions have issued regulations and limits, and if an antenna has been approved for installation it means that it is legally safe, meaning that it is safe as much as the institutions could find out. Which is usually a lot, and documented. And believe me they're very careful when it comes to enforce limits!

Of course it doesn't mean that everything is 100% known and does not mean errors can not be made, but I don't see another number popping up here unless we enter the field of personal belief (which was not the request).

I apologize if I sound a bit rude here but I really think the question itself needed a comment.
For a more gentle answer I subscribe to Caleb's

Thank you, this is actually the first answer that really touches on my question!


I agree and I hope there has been adequate studies and regulations on the proposed installation. That is part of the question - does anyone have access or links to these studies/regulations in Zurich. The fact that they are hard to find, begins the questioning for me.


Also who in CH enforces these regulations. If it was all done officially and properly (I'm not suggesting it wasn't), there should be a clear accessible paper trail.



This is the information I'm looking for, not the pseudo science (or the anti-pseudo science rhetoric)



The best found above was an exclusion zone for workers near the tower of 10 m when energized. As I stated, most of our flat is <10 m away.
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