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Old 24.08.2020, 09:20
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Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

Near where we live, there is a farm track, which everyone uses as a wanderweg in the countryside. This is a lovely track, especially as it can be used for circular routes.



Last week, there were 'private' signs erected at each end of the track, a gate was built at the field end, and big yellow 'Privat' painted on the road at the farm end. These signs are official gemeinde signs, with No cars, bikes, walkers symbols.


And a potential fine of 2,000 Chfs !!


This weekend I talked to the farm owner and asked why this track is now closed. This track passes through a farmyard, and the main reason for this block are the bikers who race through. There have been a couple of incidents, where riders have fallen off or crashed, and because it is private land, there were insurance issues.


I have ridden along this track many times, especially as it is one of my easier last leg routes back to home. But I have always respected the land and any other people, and kept to a sensible speed through the farm.


There is a small hill before the farm, so MTB's could be ridden quite fast downhill, and the abundance of eMTB have the ability to be ridden fast, downhill and uphill. Many eMTB riders definitely need to learn that even if you have the capability to ride fast, there are many places where restraint is warranted.



So for the FEW that did not have any respect for property or people, the MANY now have lost a useful wanderweg.


To all MTB riders, ride with respect.
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Old 24.08.2020, 09:46
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

I know another one where the footpath through a farm yard was closed recently due to reckless bikers.
The farming family had young children who played in the yard.


However, in this case, the route was an official Wanderweg so a new, detoured path was built around the farm.
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Old 24.08.2020, 10:04
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

Kittster has asked me for the location, the track is near Lützelsee, above Hombrechtikon. Hopefully a map is attached.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Lutzelsee_Closed_800.jpg (102.8 KB, 125 views)

Last edited by Dragon5; 24.08.2020 at 10:05. Reason: attach map
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Old 24.08.2020, 10:20
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

I have also experienced the closing (to bikers only) of a track in Davos leading to Sertig. Bikers can still use the track but must push their bikes. I bike myself but really don't cycle fast, particularly downhill. It's a great shame that the inconsideration of the few affect the many.

I also know the track you are talking about around the Lutzelsee. I use that too. What a pity.
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Old 24.08.2020, 11:00
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

Sad situation. The only good thing coming from ebikes is that all the new people riding votes for new dedicated MTB trails. Also, the horse-only trails seem to be a waste, no one uses them

Just for curiosity, what are the insurance issues of an uninvited guest in getting hurt in your property?
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Old 24.08.2020, 11:38
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

I ride my MTB with such caution and care for people, dogs, land and wildlife. I get so peeved at the few who ruin it for us.
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Old 24.08.2020, 13:10
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

Hmmm, there was an other EF member complaining about all the pedestrians, cyclers etc. walking through his farm, driving the dog crazy, feeding his animals etc.
Maybe they were successful solving their problem.
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Old 24.08.2020, 13:34
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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Sad situation. The only good thing coming from ebikes is that all the new people riding votes for new dedicated MTB trails. Also, the horse-only trails seem to be a waste, no one uses them

Just for curiosity, what are the insurance issues of an uninvited guest in getting hurt in your property?
There's a possibility of them making a claim on you, so you need to make sure you have a good 3rd party liability insurance. Even if you have, the more claims that are, or could be, made, the higher the premiums.

I could well imagine that closing off access to the general public could do a lot to reduce his premium, or stop it increasing if the InsCo have just become aware of it.

We used to get a few people using our drive/path/steps/garden as a shortcut, which concerned me, particularly when some of the steps were in a poor state of repair, so I put up a 'Private, No Access' sign which seemed to resolve it and would hopefully avoid unauthorised people being able to claim off us. We still occasionally get neighbours kids playing on our property unaccompanied by the kids that live here, which I also try to put a stop to.

The worry about insurance liability isn't the only reason - our own privacy and peace and quiet, as well as that of our guests and tenants, is of course important - but it's certainly a significant factor.
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Old 24.08.2020, 14:18
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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3rd party liability insurance.
AKA burglar insurance (in case they get hurt... whilst doing the burgluring.. on your property )


On a serious note, I have noted this about Switzerland, having thought this was not a "nanny state" where fun and playful things are automatically plastered in warning signs or no access I have discovered that ... one bad apple spoils the fun.

Some examples on the road:
adding curve ahead signs or difficult bends after an accident - I know of 3 places near me they did this.
permanently reducing the speed limit from 80 to 60 on several kms of mountain road because of two accidents accident...

spoilsports!
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Old 24.08.2020, 21:20
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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On a serious note, I have noted this about Switzerland, having thought this was not a "nanny state" where fun and playful things are automatically plastered in warning signs or no access I have discovered that ... one bad apple spoils the fun.
How many people have you heard of who successfully sued McDonalds after they burned themselves with McD's coffee?

Having happened in Switzerland IS NOT equivalent to being specific to it.
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Old 24.08.2020, 22:35
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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How many people have you heard of who successfully sued McDonalds after they burned themselves with McD's coffee?
Stella Liebeck of Albuquerque, New Mexico.
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Old 24.08.2020, 23:05
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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Stella Liebeck of Albuquerque, New Mexico.
That was the one everybody knows about, wasn't it? Who else?
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Old 24.08.2020, 23:53
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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How many people have you heard of who successfully sued McDonalds after they burned themselves with McD's coffee?

Having happened in Switzerland IS NOT equivalent to being specific to it.
And then there is the real story behind that "frivolous" lawsuit...
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Old 25.08.2020, 09:47
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

I wonder why they didn't just close it to bicyclists? It's been done elsewhere.
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Old 26.08.2020, 02:05
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

Count: 1
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Old 26.08.2020, 03:06
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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That was the one everybody knows about, wasn't it? Who else?
.
From the WSJ:

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Other documents obtained from McDonald's showed that from 1982 to 1992 the company had received more than 700 reports of people burned by McDonald's coffee to varying degrees of severity, and had settled claims arising from scalding injuries for more than $500,000.
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Old 26.08.2020, 10:53
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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I wonder why they didn't just close it to bicyclists? It's been done elsewhere.
I'd imagine it's because a small percentage of irresponsible cyclists would just ignore the sign and ride their bike rather than dismounting and pushing it. As is so often the case a small selfish minority who think rules do not apply to them, spoil it for the majority of law abiding cyclists.
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Old 26.08.2020, 12:58
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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I'd imagine it's because a small percentage of irresponsible cyclists would just ignore the sign and ride their bike rather than dismounting and pushing it.
... creating a nice source of income for the local constabulary. That practice would stop pretty quickly.
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Old 26.08.2020, 16:08
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

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... creating a nice source of income for the local constabulary. That practice would stop pretty quickly.
Trouble is the local constabulary are rarely around when you need them, and they certainly wouldn't put someone permanently there to ensure the rule is being complied with.
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Old 27.08.2020, 16:32
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Re: Wanderweg Closed ! A sad cautionary tale.

"A small percentage", ha ha. Mountain biking is inherently a holery, except for the 0% of mountain bikers who use trails off limits to pedestrians.
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