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Old 11.09.2020, 15:24
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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This is why people hate cops.
In the US the cops just shoot people. That way nobody they have interacted with ever ends up hating them.
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Old 11.09.2020, 15:47
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

Just a quick follow-up. I tried the local Altstetten police station and they didn't knew about anything. The person who answered said to contact 117.

I did that and they asked for the address, hour of the occurrence, how many they were, etc. They said they were going to check and if they didn't call back everything was ok. They didn't so far.
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  #23  
Old 11.09.2020, 19:13
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

My Niederdorf anecdote happened on a balmy summer's evening, with lots of people in street cafés, and strolling about, and buskers.

Suddenly, from several side alleys, police arrived, in cars, on foot, in full gear, with guns. Within seconds, there must have been about 30 of them, in an instant swoop. And a megaphone: "Stehen bleiben! Keine Bewegung," which a random helpful pedestrian quickly translated into: "Freeze! Don't move!".

Quite remarkably, everyone obeyed instantly. Not a movement, nothing. Everyone stopped dead (although my heart was certainly racing). It lasted for about four hours... no, of course not, that's just what the cramp in my calf was telling me, until a small pocket of policemen singled out two men, clapped handcuffs on them, and the megaphonen said: "Entwarnung," and the pedestrian: "You can go now!". And we did.
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Old 11.09.2020, 19:14
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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This is why people hate cops.

This interaction didn't need to go this way. They would have the same effect with a more polite demeanor and now you and your wife wouldn't be so nervous around the cops.
People don't really hate cops here. In fact, quite often they're related to half of the village.
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Old 11.09.2020, 19:15
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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no, of course not, that's just what the cramp in my calf was telling me, until a small pocket of policemen singled out two men, clapped handcuffs on them, and the megaphonen said: "Entwarnung," and the pedestrian: "You can go now!". And we did.
That reminds me, I must get handcuffs for my trotinette.
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  #26  
Old 11.09.2020, 19:43
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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I agree this is unusual. Asking to be let into someone else’s apartment is not on.

As Tom suggests they were likely looking for someone, but there are rules they should follow.
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No, they don’t need to provide anything. No, they don’t need a warrant either if they have any reason to believe that a crime is in progress.

I obviously don’t know what these two were looking for but it’s very normal for Swiss police to drive unmarked cars and not wear uniforms.
Normal? Only for you

https://www.augenauf.ch/bs/archiv/we...ine_rechte.pdf

This is common knowledge but here it goes (translated for english)

The police officers have to tell you their name on request, plainclothes police officers show you the ID.

In the event of an attack, make a note of the names of the police officers, the place, date, time and names and addresses of
any witnesses. This is important for the complaints against the police
(the reason i asked for police station and supervisor, you should always ask)

Searches in public (e.g. removing your underpants) are not permitted.

Request that the police search you in your car or at the post. (Again police station)

The police are only allowed to detain, arrest or detain you in specific, legally prescribed cases
to arrest. There must be very specific grounds for suspicion that you have committed a misdemeanor or a crime
committed


And Last my favourite:

You have the right to refuse to testify and refusal of identification


PS; Police can not say...we are looking for a red car...yours is red. They need very specific grounds and prove to you. I believe a crime is happening? Ok show me the grounds.

Nope...the standard protocols do not allow this. They need to have something else on you. They can lie of course to make a search but if you know the protocols does not work like that .
Or else everyone was searched for drugs. Does not work like that.

PS: The algorithm to choose you, your apartment, your building can not be based ....ok we are police....not anywhere in the world

Last edited by Superfast; 11.09.2020 at 19:56.
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Old 11.09.2020, 22:56
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People don't really hate cops here. In fact, quite often they're related to half of the village.
Maybe your village is different... My neighbours seem to think very little of police. They see them as ineffective aggressive fools. There's also this weird idea that crime only happens in the cities.

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I think it's the standard Swiss greeting for new arrivals
I'm very glad I stayed with family friends and not a temporary apartment when I moved here. Sounds like this can be risky.

Last edited by roegner; 12.09.2020 at 08:00. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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  #28  
Old 12.09.2020, 01:04
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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No, they don’t need to provide anything. No, they don’t need a warrant either if they have any reason to believe that a crime is in progress.

I obviously don’t know what these two were looking for but it’s very normal for Swiss police to drive unmarked cars and not wear uniforms.

One of the typical problems with furnished temporary apartments is illegal prostitution... does the building have a lot of people?
Not quite true. They can only go in without a warrant if there is "Gefahr im Verzug", if they have reasonable grounds to believe a crime is actually happening or about to happen or they are actively pursuing a suspect who will escape if they do not act immediately. The fact that somebody they might want to talk to possibly lives in that apartment, but the only reason they came for him on Thursday is because Wednesday was bingo night at the police station and on Tuesday the boss had a headache, that is not "Gefahr im Verzug".

Of course in reality police will twist the interpretation of "reasonable grounds" to the extreme and can make paperwork vanish if anybody demands an investigation. But even so there is a limit to how much they can get away with and they know when they reach that limit.

The guys who go after illegal prostitutes don't wear battle gear or knock on doors loudly but go in pretending to be normal inconspicuous clients. Illegal prostitutes aren't stupid and will vanish through the back door as soon as anything loud and dangerous appears at the front door.
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Old 12.09.2020, 02:21
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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In the US the cops just shoot people. That way nobody they have interacted with ever ends up hating them.



Only in Detroit
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Old 12.09.2020, 02:31
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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My Niederdorf anecdote happened on a balmy summer's evening, with lots of people in street cafés, and strolling about, and buskers.

Suddenly, from several side alleys, police arrived, in cars, on foot, in full gear, with guns. Within seconds, there must have been about 30 of them, in an instant swoop. And a megaphone: "Stehen bleiben! Keine Bewegung," which a random helpful pedestrian quickly translated into: "Freeze! Don't move!".

Quite remarkably, everyone obeyed instantly. Not a movement, nothing. Everyone stopped dead (although my heart was certainly racing). It lasted for about four hours... no, of course not, that's just what the cramp in my calf was telling me, until a small pocket of policemen singled out two men, clapped handcuffs on them, and the megaphonen said: "Entwarnung," and the pedestrian: "You can go now!". And we did.
Folks in Niederdorf are bad bad , Strolling home after midnight and singing ,was rewarded with flower pots thrown at us ,from the top floors
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Old 12.09.2020, 05:02
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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Illegal prostitutes aren't stupid and will vanish through the back door as soon as anything loud and dangerous appears at the front door.
Ordinary apartments don't have back doors though, not around here.
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  #32  
Old 12.09.2020, 11:13
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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Normal? Only for you
1. the cops did show ID
2. yes, just as I said: they don’t need a warrant if they have reasons to believe that a crime is in process
3. Yes, I prefer my cops in plain clothes. Because that’s a little more discrete and given how Swiss neighbors behave do you not want the whole village debating why the cops went to that Ausländer again...

All in all: this isn’t South Central LA.
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Old 12.09.2020, 21:02
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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Normal? Only for you


And Last my favourite:

You have the right to refuse to testify and refusal of identification

Sorry what a crappy and dangerous advice (and also wrongly translated).

What you can refuse is fingerprinting, being photographed, and DNA swaps.
But you must provide your identity, and if you are not Swiss you must produce a valid passport or ID card within appropriated time. You can leave passport/ID at home but in most cantons (police law is cantons law) they can take you to the station (this is not considered as an arrest) to verify your details. If you refuse to identify yourself they might arrest you and in that instance they are allowed to take fingerprints, photographs, DNA samples and everything else which might be useful to establish your identity.
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Old 12.09.2020, 21:07
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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Sorry what a crappy and dangerous advice (and also wrongly translated).

What you can refuse is fingerprinting, being photographed, and DNA swaps.
But you must provide your identity, and if you are not Swiss you must produce a valid passport or ID card within appropriated time. You can leave passport/ID at home but in most cantons (police law is cantons law) they can take you to the station (this is not considered as an arrest) to verify your details. If you refuse to identify yourself they might arrest you and in that instance they are allowed to take fingerprints, photographs, DNA samples and everything else which might be useful to establish your identity.
They can. The question though is how bloody minded they are about it and how many better things they have to do.

I have been checked by the police twice without having an ID on me and when I told them my name, address and date of birth they took my word for it. I guess it helps if you are otherwise friendly and cooperative and give them no cause for bloody mindedness.
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Old 12.09.2020, 21:30
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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Not related, but may be of interest to some...

I remember working from home in my little London terrace house when I heard a LOT of aggressive shouting outside, then a thundering bashing on my front door. I raced to the door, to be met by a chap in full SWAT type gear and pointing a semi automatic gun at me!
At this point your life depended on a little 1 by 5 mm surface on a piece of metal deep inside the guns innards, a piece of metal made by a manufacturer trying to squeeze every dollar of profit from that gun....
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Old 12.09.2020, 22:35
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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People don't really hate cops here. In fact, quite often they're related to half of the village.
That’s the nicest way anyone ever said ACAB.
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Old 12.09.2020, 22:40
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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That’s the nicest way anyone ever said ACAB.
I do not think that was meant that way (and I had to google that)
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Old 12.09.2020, 23:26
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

To be clear:

1) Anyone living in Switzerland without a valid residence permit may be questioned by the competent authorities. If so, only the police have the right to ask to see an identity document. Not having a valid permit or a visa is sufficient grounds for an arrest.

4. The police do not have the right to enter a person’s home or search the premises without an authorization from a judge (the examining magistrate or “juge d’instruction”).

https://ccsi.ch/help-and-information...%20an%20arrest.

PS; I am being serious when i try to clarify, anytime i read Swiss law seems they look for Permits. Does not say anything about IDs.
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Old 12.09.2020, 23:43
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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Me and my wife moved 4 weeks ago to Zurich. We're now living in Altstetten in a temporary apartment payed by my company. We've already found a permanent apartment and will be moving on the 21st this month.

Today I left for work and she called me saying that a guy knocked on the door, showed a card identifying himself as police and asked for her ID. She was obviously scared and proceeded to comply as requested. He took a note of the ID number on his phone and proceed to knock on the door in front of our apartment. Since no one answered he asked for her key to try to open the other door (it would be bad if it would open!) and then gave it back to her. Let me start by saying that both of us registered in less than 14 days since we arrived and I've already received my B permit. She is just waiting for hers since she registered a week after me (we were still waiting for the marriage certificate from the embassy). We both come from Portugal.

While this was happening she could ear his colleagues knocking on other doors especially in one of them where they insisted and knocked really hard.

After this they stood at the entrance of the building for some time and then left. They came in 2 normal cars (not official police cars) and they didn't have their uniforms.

I lived 33 years in my home country and never saw an action like this by the police. I guess this is not normal right? I'm just asking to get some sense out of this.
I was reading carefully again what you wrote and if they just ask the IDs i think is ok.

The thing here and also for me, i am here for 10 years, is not easy to distinguish from normal police from criminal police (PSP, PJ and GNR in our country).

For me it would be a big difference if it was PJ or PSP knocking on my door. I would know a dead body was being searched or a major drug dealer
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Old 13.09.2020, 02:51
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Re: Police knocking on the door asking for ID

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PS; I am being serious when i try to clarify, anytime i read Swiss law seems they look for Permits. Does not say anything about IDs.
Art. 89 Foreign Nationals and Integration Act
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a89
and Art. 215 Criminal Procedure Code https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a215

You might want to check Art. 196 to 298d as well

Additionaol regulations can be found in the cantons police laws. For example police act canton Zurich § 21, se also §36 to 37. https://www.zh.ch/de/politik-staat/g...07_01-109.html

But not only the police has to right to ask for an ID, customs has this right has well (and some other rights) See from Art. 100 ZG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...370/index.html

Further you my look into the Zwangsanwendungsgesetz https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...005/index.html

and in the Verordnung über die Polizeibefugnisse der Armee
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...297/index.html
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