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Old 18.09.2020, 00:14
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Delivery guarantee

I want to buy something online and see that the likes of interdiscount and nettoshop offer 'delivery guarantee' for an extra fee. If your stuff goes missing or is damaged this will cover it. Wouldn't delivery be guaranteed in any case or can stuff 'go missing' in transport then you still have to pay for it if you don't have the insurance? Or it arrives damaged and you have to accept it?



Actually just found this
https://www.interdiscount.ch/de/cms/...ansportschaden


If you don't have insurance and your stuff is damaged you have to contact whichever company delivered the package. It's even the case if delivered by Post and you do have the guarantee.


Seems wrong but somehow typically Swiss.
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Old 18.09.2020, 05:43
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Re: Delivery guarantee

These additional delivery guarantees aren't needed, I never take them. The company you order from are responsible for fulfilling your order and the delivery companies are responsible for getting a package to you and I think that any additional fee paid to the company you order from are just redundant and unnecessary. If I have a problem with delivery it's always sorted out anyway.
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Old 18.09.2020, 08:36
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Re: Delivery guarantee

Delivery guarantees and insurance are usually two different things. A delivery guarantee relates to the time taken for the item to arrive. With Covid many of these are currenty suspended with the likes of UPS, DHL etc.


Most packages come with a limited liability, usually $100 or equivalent. So in the event you can show they have lost or damaged the goods that is the maximum compensation they will pay.



Additional insurance against the value of the goods can usually be taken, but they will fight tooth and nail to avoid ever paying out on it.
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Old 18.09.2020, 09:28
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Re: Delivery guarantee

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These additional delivery guarantees aren't needed, I never take them. The company you order from are responsible for fulfilling your order and the delivery companies are responsible for getting a package to you and I think that any additional fee paid to the company you order from are just redundant and unnecessary. If I have a problem with delivery it's always sorted out anyway.
The law and your opinion/experience are two different things.
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Old 18.09.2020, 09:42
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Re: Delivery guarantee

interesting article here: https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/kassens...schaeden-nicht
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Old 18.09.2020, 10:04
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Re: Delivery guarantee

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The law and your opinion/experience are two different things.
Do you even know what you are talking about with this post and references to the law? What parts of the law are you talking about?

The quote from the article above that k_and_e posted contains some good info:

Quote:
Also sold unnecessary transport insurance?
Questionable: Microspot, Interdiscount and Fust try to sell customers the transport insurance even for purchases under 500 francs. Up to this amount, however, parcels are already insured with the Post and DPD.

Microspot and Interdiscount contradict. The transport guarantee also makes sense in these cases - because it goes further than the insurance of the freight forwarder: "This service makes life easier for customers, because it saves tedious clarifications and long waiting times if there are problems with a delivery."

This includes taking care of the entire claims settlement with the post office and «that we immediately order a new device and send it to the customer», writes Interdiscount.
Packages of up to 500chf are ALREADY INSURED with Die Post and DPD. Your right to receiving something that you paid, or being compensated for something that does not arrive, does not change because of not getting additional delivery insurance.

The additional insurance from some of the more unscrupulous e-shops is just for them to "deal with it more quickly and efficiently" ie: they will speed things up and handle some of the legwork for you, legwork that you can anyway easily do yourself.

Considering how rare delivery problems are it's just a worthless additional charge to line their pockets.

Last edited by Chuff; 18.09.2020 at 10:32. Reason: Typo and grammar correction
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Old 18.09.2020, 10:16
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Re: Delivery guarantee

Darn, I am always paying the insurance and use microspot a lot for my son's projects.
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Old 18.09.2020, 11:11
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Re: Delivery guarantee

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Your right to receiving something that you paid, or being compensated for something
There is no right to receive something. The sellers obligations ends when they handed over the item to the shipping company. At that point the buyer bears all of the risks. Art. 185 Code of Obligations. Keywords: Erfüllungsort und Gefahrenübergang beim Gattungskauf. Place of fulfillment and transfer of risk in case of the sale of a fungible goods.

Even if the post offers financial protection in case of a loss or damage during transit the delivery contract is usually between seller and shipment company and not with buyer and shipment company. The buyer has not rights of compensation from the delivery company.
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Old 18.09.2020, 11:16
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Re: Delivery guarantee

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There is no right to receive something. The sellers obligations ends when they handed over the item to the shipping company. At that point the buyer bears all of the risks. Art. 185 Code of Obligations. Keywords: Erfüllungsort und Gefahrenübergang beim Gattungskauf. Place of fulfillment and transfer of risk in case of the sale of a fungible goods.

Even if the post offers financial protection in case of a loss or damage during transit the delivery contract is usually between seller and shipment company and not with buyer and shipment company. The buyer has not rights of compensation from the delivery company.
So wait a sec... are you saying that if I order something worth 400chf from Microspot and it doesn't turn up due to the post losing it, then I am not entitled to enter a claim and get my money back? It just goes into some 'black hole' and I am out of pocket 400chf?

Last edited by Chuff; 18.09.2020 at 11:52.
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Old 18.09.2020, 12:13
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Re: Delivery guarantee

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So wait a sec... are you saying that if I order something worth 400chf from Microspot and it doesn't turn up due to the post losing it, then I am not entitled to enter a claim and get my money back? It just goes into some 'black hole' and I am out of pocket 400chf?
The sender is entitled to this. They might send you another item.

You have not in any way established a contract with the courier so they have no obligation to you.
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Old 18.09.2020, 12:16
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Re: Delivery guarantee

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The sender is entitled to this. They might send you another item.

You have not in any way established a contract with the courier so they have no obligation to you.
So lets get this straight, based on the last couple of posts from you and swissinUS, it seems be the case that:
  1. The buyer has no contract with the delivery service so is not entitled to money back from them
  2. The online store's responsibility to the consumer ends when they hand the goods over to the delivery service

Following this 'logic', it seems to imply that if a parcel is lost through no fault of your own, you are screwed with no recourse of getting your money back... unless you pay for this additional insurance?
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Old 18.09.2020, 12:32
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Re: Delivery guarantee

I always have the valuable orders from Microspot shipped to a delivery point. There is one close to my house and it works pretty well.
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Old 18.09.2020, 12:55
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Re: Delivery guarantee

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Following this 'logic', it seems to imply that if a parcel is lost through no fault of your own, you are screwed with no recourse of getting your money back... unless you pay for this additional insurance?
Correct. This is the default set by the law. Nevertheless, a sales contract and general terms and conditions can specify a regulation which is more favorable for the buyer. Locks like Coop and it subsidiaries (Fust, Microspot, Interdiscount, Nettoshop) play by the book, whereas Migros and its subsidiaries (Digitec, Galaxus, m-electronics) go beyond the bare minimum. At least for the moment. Read and understand the general terms and conditions before you order and check for important changes since you did it the last time. You might find some other interesting and surprising nit bits in the GTC.

Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 10.02.2021 at 10:17.
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Old 18.09.2020, 13:17
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Re: Delivery guarantee

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Correct. This is the default set by the law. Nevertheless, a sales contract and general terms and conditions can specify a regulation which is more favorable for the buyer. Locks like Coop and it subsidiaries (Fust, Microspot, Interdiscount) play by the book, whereas Migros and its subsidiaries (Digitec, Galaxus, m-electronics) go beyond the bare minimum. At least for the moment. Read and understand the general terms and conditions before you order and check for important changes since you did it the last time. You might find some other interesting and surprising nit bits in the GTC.
I am going to write to their customer service and ask for a response from them on this particular topic, as I have done a fair bit of shopping with them over the years and it would be interesting to see what their official stance is.
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Old 10.02.2021, 05:52
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Companies trying to charge a "transport guarantee"... does it really matter?

I have noticed some companies that add a "transport guarantee" option to your order, usually 1.5% or so of the goods value. This is optional but added by default, so you need to untick/uncheck it at the order page.

To me this seems utterly pointless, because does it really affect your rights as a consumer if the item is damaged or lost in transport? An example is here with PC-Ostschweiz;

Quote:

German:

Transportgarantie (1.40% vom Warenwert)
Ohne Transportgarantie erfolgt der Versand nur begrenzt transportversichert.

Je nach Transportunternehmen unterscheidet sich der versicherte Wert. Wir empfehlen Ihnen den Abschluss einer Transportgarantie. Somit ist die bestellte Ware in jedem Fall über die ganze Schadenssumme versichert. Details zur Transportgarantie entnehmen Sie bitte den AGB.

English:

Transport guarantee (1.40% of the value of the goods)
Without a transport guarantee, shipping is only insured to a limited extent.

The insured value differs depending on the transport company. We recommend that you take out a transport guarantee. Thus, the ordered goods are insured for the full amount of the damage in any case. Please refer to the terms and conditions for details on the transport guarantee
Their AGB's then state: https://www.pc-ostschweiz.ch/CustomerService.htm?cs=6

Quote:
6 Transfer of risk, transport and insurance
The company delivers exclusively to valid postal addresses within Switzerland and the Principality of Liechtenstein. Deliveries via forwarding partner are only made up to curbs.
The risk of accidental loss or damage passes to the customer upon handover of the goods by the company to the
carrier.

When completing the order, the customer can optionally conclude a transport guarantee for transport damage and transport
losses. When a transport guarantee is taken out, the risk of accidental loss or damage is transferred to the customer upon delivery of the goods by the transporter to the customer and transport insurance is valid, which the company has taken out with the Basel insurance. Insured is the actual damage caused by the shipping route, maximum the value of the goods at the time of the order. The customer is exclusively entitled to rectification or replacement (replacement delivery) or compensation in the event of impairment. The decision to repair or replace a device is made by the company. A subsequent conclusion of the transport guarantee is not possible.
Should the delivered products show obvious material or manufacturing defects, including transport damage, the customer is obliged to complain to the supplier (post office, courier) and subsequently to the company immediately upon receipt, at the latest after 5
days. Furthermore, the customer is obliged to store all packaging material until the case has been settled.
If an item that you ordered from a retailer is damaged during transit through no fault of your own, before it reaches you, then surely either way you are entitled to a replacement product or your money back. In that case, then what benefit does a transport guarantee actually give... from the wording it seems that this guarantee only comes into effect you at the actual point of handover?

To me it seems like a way of making some extra cash with a largely redundant benefit to the buyer (as with many kinds of supplementary insurance). Thoughts?

EDIT - This has already been discussed and I forgot. I will ask the mods to merge it.

Last edited by Chuff; 10.02.2021 at 09:35.
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Old 10.02.2021, 06:18
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Re: Companies trying to charge a "transport guarantee"... does it really matter?

No the risk transfers to the customer on delivery, so the insurance is valid up to that point. Actually it should say acceptance, not delivery - obviously the insurance is in force until the customer confirms the goods are not damaged, which can be up to 5 days after delivery according to the AGB.

But since the customer often has no direct control over which carrier is used, and almost always has no control over which specific service is chosen, then how can you know what is covered by the carrier?

I wonder if this has been tested in court - although there's general freedom to write contract terms, consumers get some extra protection and it's clear that a purchase and delivery contract isn't fulfilled until the item is actually with the customer (undamaged). They are basically asking us to insure the potential failure of their subcontractor - which is actually fully their responsibility.
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Old 10.02.2021, 06:23
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Re: Companies trying to charge a "transport guarantee"... does it really matter?

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According to the AGB then if the transport company insurance isn't enough to cover the value of the item, this extra insurance would make sense.

But since the customer often has no direct control over which carrier is used, and almost always has no control over which specific service is chosen, then how can you know?

I wonder if this has been tested in court - although there's general freedom to write contract terms, consumers get some extra protection and it's clear that a purchase and delivery contract isn't fulfilled until the item is actually with the customer. They are basically asking us to insure the potential failure of their subcontractor - which is actually fully their responsibility.
Thanks newtoswitz, it's my understanding that regardless of item value that it is their (either the retailer or the carrier) responsibility to ensure that it gets to you in good working condition. If the carrier damages an item then the retailer needs to replace it and then claim it back from the carrier. The fact that all companies do not charge this guarantee tells me that it isn't really necessary to your consumer rights.

The wording to me still suggests that it's "from the point of handover to the customer" and not during transport that this insurance takes effect?
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Old 10.02.2021, 06:28
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Re: Companies trying to charge a "transport guarantee"... does it really matter?

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Thanks newtoswitz, it's my understanding that regardless of item value that it is their (either the retailer or the carrier) responsibility to ensure that it gets to you in good working condition. If the carrier damages an item then the retailer needs to replace it and then claim it back from the carrier. The fact that all companies do not charge this guarantee tells me that it isn't really necessary to your consumer rights.

The wording to me still suggests that it's "from the point of handover to the customer" and not during transport that this insurance takes effect?
I edited my previous post - the risk transfers at handover, i.e. because the insurance stops at handover. (actually up to 5 days after).
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Old 10.02.2021, 06:35
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Re: Companies trying to charge a "transport guarantee"... does it really matter?

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I edited my previous post - the risk transfers at handover, i.e. because the insurance stops at handover. (actually up to 5 days after).
I see what you mean now. Hmm. It seems only the less ethical stores do this "trick".
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Old 10.02.2021, 09:16
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Re: Companies trying to charge a "transport guarantee"... does it really matter?

Dear Chuff, I like to remind you about this thread where the topic has already been discussed: http://www.englishforum.ch/insurance...guarantee.html

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I edited my previous post - the risk transfers at handover, i.e. because the insurance stops at handover. (actually up to 5 days after).
Except the "handover" as defined by the law is before the item has been shipped. It happens at the time the item has been sold. See above thread for more details. But also Art. 185 Code of obligations and https://www.kauf-vertrag.ch/gefahrtragung

Which means:
Quote:
The risk of accidental loss or damage passes to the customer upon handover of the goods by the company to the carrier.
is allready better than the bare minimum as defined in the code of obligations.

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Th If the carrier damages an item then the retailer needs to replace it and then claim it back from the carrier.
If the carrier damages the item, than you as the customer can claim demages against the carrier. The retailer is out of the loop. Which means that the transport insurance is not needed per se, but can give you piece of mind in case of a sensitive high ticket item, like a big tv screen.
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