Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 30.09.2020, 00:34
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Geneva
Posts: 113
Groaned at 34 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 49 Posts
mikedragos is considered knowledgeablemikedragos is considered knowledgeablemikedragos is considered knowledgeable
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
Both should be.

Tom
No, they shouldn't. And won't.

Mike
Reply With Quote
This user groans at mikedragos for this post:
  #22  
Old 30.09.2020, 01:56
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Zurich
Posts: 32
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 36 Times in 16 Posts
scellers has no particular reputation at present
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
No, they shouldn't. And won't.

Mike
Why are internships not jobs? Just because they're for a limited time doesn't mean that whoever has one should not be making a living wage. This just makes it far more advantageous for those whose parents are well-off and can support them well into their 20s to get further in their careers, ahead of their peers who may be equally qualified but need supplementary income (which they are WORKING FOR full time!) to make ends meet. Paying interns a living wage should also be mandatory.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank scellers for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 30.09.2020, 08:22
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Montreux
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
pzazzaro has no particular reputation at present
Re: Minimum wage Genève

WOW! No wonder why a McDonald's meal is so expensive!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 30.09.2020, 10:41
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
Apply what exactly?

First, UN jobs are not subject to the country (nor cantonal) laws.

Second, internships are not jobs.
Interns get paid ~2500-3000 CHF at my job. One of my colleagues landed an unlimited contract after 6 month internship. Still, the whole situation is murky because the duties and workload were exactly the same during internship and after signing the unlimited contract. The only thing that changed was the salary. From a certain perspective, the employer got 6 months of labor at a heavy discount.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 30.09.2020, 10:51
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,217
Groaned at 388 Times in 268 Posts
Thanked 19,882 Times in 10,360 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
Interns get paid ~2500-3000 CHF at my job. One of my colleagues landed an unlimited contract after 6 month internship. Still, the whole situation is murky because the duties and workload were exactly the same during internship and after signing the unlimited contract. The only thing that changed was the salary. From a certain perspective, the employer got 6 months of labor at a heavy discount.
It is what education is. They can do it, so it happens. The life of a junior. I still see it as a great, door opening chance for many young people without experience.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 30.09.2020, 10:53
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,217
Groaned at 388 Times in 268 Posts
Thanked 19,882 Times in 10,360 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
WOW! No wonder why a McDonald's meal is so expensive!
In GE? The vote doesn't apply yet. Macdo is expensive...because Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 30.09.2020, 11:00
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
It is what education is. They can do it, so it happens. The life of a junior. I still see it as a great, door opening chance for many young people without experience.
Well, I've had problems at some jobs before for talking about these things, learned to shut my mouth unless it's blatant abuse. Anyway, I see it as an opportunity area for a labor union to step in for highly qualified professionals. We have some kind of labor organization but it's more focused on professional liability issues
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 30.09.2020, 11:03
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Fribourg
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
slabeaga has no particular reputation at present
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
Yesterday the people in Genève voted to have a 23 CHF / hour minimum wage in the canton.

https://www.lenouvelliste.ch/article...-impose-983297
Do you know if this applies to people working in Geneva and living in another canton?
What about if you work from home, in another canton, only visiting the office in Geneva once a week?

Thanks in advance for the clarification,
Sergio
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 30.09.2020, 11:05
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,217
Groaned at 388 Times in 268 Posts
Thanked 19,882 Times in 10,360 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
Well, I've had problems at some jobs before for talking about these things, learned to shut my mouth unless it's blatant abuse. Anyway, I see it as an opportunity area for a labor union for highly qualified professionals
In highly competitive fields interns are carefully handpicked knowing that they will most likely stay. It is the trade off. They probably wouldn't have the chance immediately as a legit employee, or in a few years. They get a headstart. It is the same in the academia - as keeping your graduates to give them a headstart. At least this is more open to wider public.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 30.09.2020, 11:55
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,393
Groaned at 24 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,038 Times in 614 Posts
Meerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Minimum wage Genève

IMHO if interns had to be paid 4k it would worsens opportunities for local graduates and only push more companies to instead hire people from abroad with 2+ years of experience. That said, I agree they should be paid at least a minimum student living wage e.g. 2500-2800 which is already better than what many survive on at university, otherwise parents have to subsidise it and it's not right as access to study loans and help is not applicable anymore.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Meerkat33 for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 30.09.2020, 12:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,732
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,638 Times in 8,014 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
IMHO if interns had to be paid 4k it would worsens opportunities for local graduates and only push more companies to instead hire people from abroad with 2+ years of experience. That said, I agree they should be paid at least a minimum student living wage e.g. 2500-2800 which is already better than what many survive on at university, otherwise parents have to subsidise it and it's not right as access to study loans and help is not applicable anymore.
Many companies pick people from abroad for these internships too, so don't be so sure low pay for interns means they'll dig into local talent pool. I know this because moons ago I was one of them, albeit on a slightly better wage.
It is quality labour at a heavy discount as Axa has put it. But yeah, if one is very young and needs international experience, one might compromise.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 30.09.2020, 21:33
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Geneva
Posts: 113
Groaned at 34 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 49 Posts
mikedragos is considered knowledgeablemikedragos is considered knowledgeablemikedragos is considered knowledgeable
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
Why are internships not jobs? Just because they're for a limited time doesn't mean that whoever has one should not be making a living wage. This just makes it far more advantageous for those whose parents are well-off and can support them well into their 20s to get further in their careers, ahead of their peers who may be equally qualified but need supplementary income (which they are WORKING FOR full time!) to make ends meet. Paying interns a living wage should also be mandatory.
I was specifically commenting on someone qualifying the UN practice of not paying interns 'scandalous'. Not on the private sector internships.

There was nothing scandalous about it - at least with international organizations, most likely it was interns themselves (normally from the 1st world) asking to have a sexy internship in those organizations as they needed it to complete their studies, etc... once they are in, of course not on a competitive basis, they start raising their demands to get paid, etc... I find this behavior scandalous, in fact. If there was a competitive hiring, they perhaps would not even be selected.

Consequently, I understand this is also somewhat going to change precisely in that direction - that more organizations will introduce limited stipends for interns and would offer them on a competitive basis. So in a way this is now closing the door for those who were earlier approaching the organizations, rather the other way around.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mikedragos for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 01.10.2020, 08:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,732
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,638 Times in 8,014 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
There was nothing scandalous about it - at least with international organizations, most likely it was interns themselves (normally from the 1st world) asking to have a sexy internship in those organizations as they needed it to complete their studies, etc... once they are in, of course not on a competitive basis, they start raising their demands to get paid, etc... I find this behavior scandalous, in fact. If there was a competitive hiring, they perhaps would not even be selected.
I tend to agree. Btw, as far as I knew it's the same with all those institutions in Bruxelles....
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 01.10.2020, 08:50
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,558
Groaned at 2,347 Times in 1,708 Posts
Thanked 38,351 Times in 18,100 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Minimum wage Genève

Quote:
View Post
Do you know if this applies to people working in Geneva and living in another canton?
Living anywhere, as it is about working in Geneva!

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01.10.2020, 10:17
Capitan Harlock's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Geneva
Posts: 109
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 42 Posts
Capitan Harlock is considered knowledgeableCapitan Harlock is considered knowledgeableCapitan Harlock is considered knowledgeable
Re: Minimum wage Genève

In any case also another initiatives has passed (very narrowly) regarding the Cantonal taxation.

I'm not surprised it got less votes than the minimum wage as it was very complicated to understand what the initiative will do and the effect (as there is another referendum from a few years ago going in another direction regarding Corporate taxes).

I guess like for the UDC initiative on immigration that passed a few years ago, the Cantonal Government will make mostly show and won't enact any change.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Capitan Harlock for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
geneva, minimum salary




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Minimum wage changes? jessieee Employment 36 30.05.2014 02:36
Vote on minimum wage- what would you do? Guest Swiss politics/news 129 19.12.2011 17:10
Minimum wage CZuser Employment 21 28.11.2011 09:24
what is the minimum wage/median wage in CH Jaro Employment 1 16.09.2009 14:05
Minimum wage telandy Employment 5 06.05.2008 13:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0