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  #61  
Old 02.11.2020, 14:42
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Re: I got assaulted by my Neighbor. What Should I do?

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Now if only DB were still around

Deutsche Bahn had an account here? Time to invite SBB too maybe
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  #62  
Old 02.11.2020, 14:53
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Re: I got assaulted by my Neighbor. What Should I do?

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Well,the law in FR/DE/IT https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...246/index.html



There's nothing in the law about bike styling (trashy bikes) or parking time limit (zero to infinite). The only requirement for bicycle owners is to leave 1.5 m free for pedestrians.

And to be precise:

  • The bikes are not on the street, they're on the sidewalk which is public space.
  • Or is there something in your rental contract that specifies that the front of the store it's part of the space you're renting? That's possible too, sometimes property limits are just marked with some stones in the pavement. What does the landlord says?
Thanks so much for providing a link!! That’s super helpful, although I’d like to petition for stricter parking rules. Owners should be responsible to take their belongings inside with them or park at a public bike parking station!
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Old 02.11.2020, 15:00
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Re: I got assaulted by my Neighbor. What Should I do?

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Thanks so much for providing a link!! That’s super helpful, although I’d like to petition for stricter parking rules. Owners should be responsible to take their belongings inside with them or park at a public bike parking station!
Art. 42 states that “Motorcyclists and cyclists must sit in the place designated for them. Children will only use a cycle if they can operate the pedals.*

Does this refer to parking or driving in the right lane?
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Old 02.11.2020, 15:08
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Re: I got assaulted by my Neighbor. What Should I do?

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Art. 42 states that “Motorcyclists and cyclists must sit in the place designated for them. Children will only use a cycle if they can operate the pedals.*

Does this refer to parking or driving in the right lane?
It refers to sitting on the rider's seat.
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Old 02.11.2020, 15:09
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

I don't know the answer to GoldRule's question, but I also don't think that it has been completely answered.

I want to start with an automobile analogy. Unless you have an official from the city 'no parking' sign on your parking space which is also registered at the notary, you won't get any help from the police. That doesn't mean that you can't have a car that is parked on your property removed by yourself, but you'll have to pay AND this also is not always considered a preportional response.

A quick tangent... In general, the rules about what you can and can't do with respect to cars aren't always self explanatory. What suprises many people, for example, is that it is never legal to block (or park in) a car that is parked on your property. What you are doing is Nötigung --> something llke assault and you'll be the one getting in trouble, not the person who parked on your property!?!)

So, the rules are probably just as confusing and maybe even less clear for bikes... If you really want to get to the bottom of this, I think your going to have to ask an expert, but first you'll have to describe all the different scenerios which apply to bikes and your store. The rules might be different for bikes parked in front of your business on the city sidewalk than they are for bikes that are leaning on store or are locked to your fence or whatever.

Then you should probably ask a real estate lawyer about what your rights are for each situation as they may be very different.

Next, I think you need to take up some active public realations work. After all, you don't want to make enemies with your neighbors. Put up some friendly signs saying... 'Bikers welcome, but please park your bikes on the official parking spaces' Put up a small map showing great bike parking spaces nearby, leave a friendly note on makes that are parked in front of the store asking them to park somehere else. Keep a box of treats at the store and go outside and ask people parking their bike to park somewhere else and give them a cookie or something like that.

After that, and only if you are allowed to remove the bike, I would post a sign that says clearly... no bicycle parking... Starting next month, bikes parked here will be removed. Give the neighbors some time...

And then do only what you are allowed to do...

By the way, if you google 'parken richterliche verbot' and if you can use a translate program or can read german, you'll find lots of information applying to car parking that may be useful to you. For example, there are plenty of security firms that offer the service of watching over private parking spaces. Perhaps you could call up one of these companies and ask them if they also handle bikes and how they do it? Maybe just asking your question will be enough to get some information.
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  #66  
Old 02.11.2020, 15:11
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Re: I got assaulted by my Neighbor. What Should I do?

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Art. 42 states that “Motorcyclists and cyclists must sit in the place designated for them. Children will only use a cycle if they can operate the pedals.*

Does this refer to parking or driving in the right lane?
At a cursory glance, this refers having their bums on the seats when moving.
I still stand on by bike/motorbike every now and then to relieve arse soreness. Sometimes I even sit in a place not designated for me on long motorbike journeys and move up to the pillion spot for a change of position.
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Old 02.11.2020, 15:15
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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I don't know the answer to GoldRule's question, but I also don't think that it has been completely answered.

I want to start with an automobile analogy. Unless you have an official from the city 'no parking' sign on your parking space which is also registered at the notary, you won't get any help from the police. That doesn't mean that you can't have a car that is parked on your property removed by yourself, but you'll have to pay AND this also is not always considered a preportional response.

A quick tangent... In general, the rules about what you can and can't do with respect to cars aren't always self explanatory. What suprises many people, for example, is that it is never legal to block (or park in) a car that is parked on your property. What you are doing is Nötigung --> something llke assault and you'll be the one getting in trouble, not the person who parked on your property!?!)

So, the rules are probably just as confusing and maybe even less clear for bikes... If you really want to get to the bottom of this, I think your going to have to ask an expert, but first you'll have to describe all the different scenerios which apply to bikes and your store. The rules might be different for bikes parked in front of your business on the city sidewalk than they are for bikes that are leaning on store or are locked to your fence or whatever.

Then you should probably ask a real estate lawyer about what your rights are for each situation as they may be very different.

Next, I think you need to take up some active public realations work. After all, you don't want to make enemies with your neighbors. Put up some friendly signs saying... 'Bikers welcome, but please park your bikes on the official parking spaces' Put up a small map showing great bike parking spaces nearby, leave a friendly note on makes that are parked in front of the store asking them to park somehere else. Keep a box of treats at the store and go outside and ask people parking their bike to park somewhere else and give them a cookie or something like that.

After that, and only if you are allowed to remove the bike, I would post a sign that says clearly... no bicycle parking... Starting next month, bikes parked here will be removed. Give the neighbors some time...

And then do only what you are allowed to do...

By the way, if you google 'parken richterliche verbot' and if you can use a translate program or can read german, you'll find lots of information applying to car parking that may be useful to you. For example, there are plenty of security firms that offer the service of watching over private parking spaces. Perhaps you could call up one of these companies and ask them if they also handle bikes and how they do it? Maybe just asking your question will be enough to get some information.
This is so helpful. Thank you! Unfortunately the neighbors are not interested in cooperating. They are living for free off the backs of us tax payers, they don’t work, and they are lucky to live in Switzerland’s most expensive zip code. It’s really a shame they don’t want to cooperate because now it has escalated to a new level.
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  #68  
Old 02.11.2020, 17:44
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

I'm starting to feel less sympathetic to your plight. You want to sue people over this? No, honey, that is not how it works in Switzerland.

Like I said, if the bikes are in a sorry state and not locked, it is safe to consider them rubbish. No matter how many ways you use to ask the same question, the Swiss law does not provide for your specific case as there is clearly an assumption that people know how to behave in this regard. It does, however, provide for leaving rubbish lying around. And, as another aside, there should really be bicycle parking for the house where these people live, especially if it is a city property.
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  #69  
Old 02.11.2020, 17:55
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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I'm starting to feel less sympathetic to your plight. You want to sue people over this? No, honey, that is not how it works in Switzerland.

Like I said, if the bikes are in a sorry state and not locked, it is safe to consider them rubbish. No matter how many ways you use to ask the same question, the Swiss law does not provide for your specific case as there is clearly an assumption that people know how to behave in this regard. It does, however, provide for leaving rubbish lying around. And, as another aside, there should really be bicycle parking for the house where these people live, especially if it is a city property.
The basement, public bike parking, or their apartments. That’s how everyone else does it. I’m assuming you’re the type that has no interest in keeping the streets or Zurich beautiful! I’m a big fan of bikes but it’s just plain rude to park them permanently outside on public land.
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:01
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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The basement, public bike parking, or their apartments. That’s how everyone else does it. I’m assuming you’re the type that has no interest in keeping the streets or Zurich beautiful! I’m a big fan of bikes but it’s just plain rude to park them permanently outside on public land.
When you assume, you make an ass out of "u" and me. I was born here and am about as hacked off at antisocial behaviour (which includes littering and defacing public spaces) as you can get. However, I am also not a fan of the kind of entitled rage you seem to have the time and energy for. We have explained the law to you repeatedly as well as why there appears to be no provision for your case. This may actually change in the near future because of the problem with free-floating mobility options (aka the plague that are electric scooters). But right now, you have to figure out a way around this without lawyers.
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:08
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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When you assume, you make an ass out of "u" and me. I was born here and am about as hacked off at antisocial behaviour (which includes littering and defacing public spaces) as you can get. However, I am also not a fan of the kind of entitled rage you seem to have the time and energy for. We have explained the law to you repeatedly as well as why there appears to be no provision for your case. This may actually change in the near future because of the problem with free-floating mobility options (aka the plague that are electric scooters). But right now, you have to figure out a way around this without lawyers.
So you really think that public bike parking areas are just for show? Thanks to some other very helpful people on this forum, I have indeed found some solutions to my plight. There is a 4 week maximum for parking “wherever you want in public”. There are laws that must be followed and if not, lawyers will be called and lawsuits will be made.
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:11
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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So you really think that public bike parking areas are just for show? Thanks to some other very helpful people on this forum, I have indeed found some solutions to my plight. There is a 4 week maximum for parking “wherever you want in public”. There are laws that must be followed and if not, lawyers will be called and lawsuits will be made.
Your lawyer can't enforce traffic regulations though, only the police can do that.

Generally you can only sue if you can show damage, in this case the damaged party is the owner of the space which is "the public", not specifically you.
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:15
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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So you really think that public bike parking areas are just for show? Thanks to some other very helpful people on this forum, I have indeed found some solutions to my plight. There is a 4 week maximum for parking “wherever you want in public”. There are laws that must be followed and if not, lawyers will be called and lawsuits will be made.
Yes, it was me who pointed out the four week rule for bikes parked in public spaces but I guess your attention span is being affected by your sense of victimhood. Jeeez, some people...
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:23
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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Yes, it was me who pointed out the four week rule for bikes parked in public spaces but I guess your attention span is being affected by your sense of victimhood. Jeeez, some people...
Too many replies to remember who said what. So sorry I didn’t remember it was you!!
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:23
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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Your lawyer can't enforce traffic regulations though, only the police can do that.

Generally you can only sue if you can show damage, in this case the damaged party is the owner of the space which is "the public", not specifically you.
This is the interesting part. There's no mention if anyone else apart from OP is disturbed by the bikes. I'd expect other shop owners, neighbors and the police care about it. So far, no mention of any of them.....there's no way to know if the public see a problem in first place.
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:25
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This is the interesting part. There's no mention if anyone else apart from OP is disturbed by the bikes. I'd expect other shop owners, neighbors and the police care about it. So far, no mention of any of them.....there's no way to know if the public see a problem in first place.
It directly affects my shop. Indirectly it affects everyone who walks past and sees them.

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Your lawyer can't enforce traffic regulations though, only the police can do that.

Generally you can only sue if you can show damage, in this case the damaged party is the owner of the space which is "the public", not specifically you.
Depends which kind of lawyer. As someone mentioned: A real estate lawyer could help, and that’s exactly who I will call tomorrow.

Last edited by roegner; 02.11.2020 at 18:35. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 02.11.2020, 18:46
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

OP might be causing an obstruction - for which he could be sued.

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Try "parking" some pots with greens/flowers outside your shop windows
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Old 02.11.2020, 20:30
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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Depends which kind of lawyer. As someone mentioned: A real estate lawyer could help, and that’s exactly who I will call tomorrow.
More likely one knowledgeable in public and administrative law.

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Try "parking" some pots with greens/flowers outside your shop windows
That would be considered "gesteigerten Gemeingebrauch des öffentlichen Grundes". The city of Zurich is more than happy to charge you for that. Even if you just use the public airspace in form of a overhead sign. https://www.nzz.ch/zuerich/900000-fr...1?reduced=true
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Old 03.11.2020, 10:26
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Re: Bicycle Parking on Public Land

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More likely one knowledgeable in public and administrative law.



That would be considered "gesteigerten Gemeingebrauch des öffentlichen Grundes". The city of Zurich is more than happy to charge you for that. Even if you just use the public airspace in form of a overhead sign. https://www.nzz.ch/zuerich/900000-fr...1?reduced=true
Thanks for this
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