Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16.11.2020, 12:36
lpuerto's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 62
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
lpuerto has no particular reputation at present
Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Hey!

We have a little bit of a problem with kitchen gear made of light plastic and the dishwasher. If you put them to wash on the dishwasher they usually end up brownish.

Is there any solution? Specially if they are already brown

Gosh the water in Zürich is full of lime…

Filters are not an option since we're renting.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16.11.2020, 12:57
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,458
Groaned at 18 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,896 Times in 884 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Indeed, water in CH is pretty high in minerals. Add some CO_2 with a bubble machine and you have a better beverage than whatever bottle you can buy in shops

Concerning the dishwasher, read the manual. Somewhere, there should be an explanation of how to set it depending on the amount of minerals in water. I think it's carbonate hardness. Then google for Zurich water chemical analysis (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...2HYAK_utLAlC7d) and you'll find the required parameter to set your washing machine.

Also relevant, put salt in the machine as indicated by the manual. Finally, are the dishes made for a dishwasher and which temperature are you using?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 16.11.2020, 13:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 993
Groaned at 15 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 1,189 Times in 537 Posts
LuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Try adding half a cup of white spirit vinegar, it does wonders. Wait until the actual washing cycle has started, open the door and throw it in - otherwise it will just drain away.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16.11.2020, 13:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 1,937
Groaned at 47 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 1,151 Times in 688 Posts
Landers has an excellent reputationLanders has an excellent reputationLanders has an excellent reputationLanders has an excellent reputation
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Try lemon juice? Citric acid is supposed to be good for removing rust, if that's what it is.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 16.11.2020, 23:22
lpuerto's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 62
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
lpuerto has no particular reputation at present
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Quote:
View Post
Indeed, water in CH is pretty high in minerals. Add some CO_2 with a bubble machine and you have a better beverage than whatever bottle you can buy in shops

Concerning the dishwasher, read the manual. Somewhere, there should be an explanation of how to set it depending on the amount of minerals in water. I think it's carbonate hardness. Then google for Zurich water chemical analysis (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...2HYAK_utLAlC7d) and you'll find the required parameter to set your washing machine.

Also relevant, put salt in the machine as indicated by the manual. Finally, are the dishes made for a dishwasher and which temperature are you using?
The problem isn't the regular dishes, but with things that are dishwasher safe and are made of plastic. For example plastic tupperwares or lids of glass tupperwares. Or for example of we just got a knife that is dishwasher safe and and the handle if white. The rugged part of the handle —as anti-slip purposes—has started to become brownish.

I'm not sure about the dishwasher… I bet an arm that it already have those settings on. Of course it has salt.

My believe is that things become brownish on the dishwasher —and other places—when the lime gets hot…

PS/ the manual of the dishwasher is in german… I've tried to find it on english, but this is a swiss model. ¬¬
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16.11.2020, 23:28
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,147
Groaned at 68 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 10,394 Times in 4,254 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Perhaps try running the machine on a lower temperature programme?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 16.11.2020, 23:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,147
Groaned at 68 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 10,394 Times in 4,254 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Quote:
View Post
Try adding half a cup of white spirit vinegar, it does wonders. Wait until the actual washing cycle has started, open the door and throw it in - otherwise it will just drain away.
How often do you do this? Each cycle? Or just once in a while to spruce things up?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 17.11.2020, 10:39
lpuerto's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 62
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
lpuerto has no particular reputation at present
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps try running the machine on a lower temperature programme?
Yeah… it's something I've been thinking to wash things with plastics, but you have to think that dishwashers aren't washing machines and they don't have "just tap water option". If you want to remove soiling from dishes in the end you need hot water. More hot or less hot, but hot water. I think lime gets brown with hot water from the tap…

For us is really a headache because it's the first time in our lives that we have to face this issue…
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 17.11.2020, 11:13
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,458
Groaned at 18 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,896 Times in 884 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Concerning temperature, for sure things will change color in the 70+°C program. I use the 45°C program at home and no problems.

Never assume the machine is properly set, for example a child living there before could have played with the buttons.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 17.11.2020, 11:26
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,300
Groaned at 97 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 18,792 Times in 8,336 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Never hat this issue. The only brown stuff I know is rust. Might come from a rust prone piece or from the dishwasher rack itself if the coating is no longer intact.

PS: If you tell us make and model we can find a English manual or at least translate the very basics.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17.11.2020, 11:47
Ace1's Avatar
A modal singularity
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS (and Alsace)
Posts: 8,534
Groaned at 346 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 14,262 Times in 6,248 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

There are lots of minerals that can leave red/brown deposits, not just iron. We get that here (Valais) not in the dishwasher, but sinks and toilets, particularly noticeable recently after we'd had groups of people in our apartments for a couple of months who clearly hadn't been cleaning frequently enough, if at all. Cleans off easily with a bit of hydrochloric acid, available in most French supermarkets, taking care to rinse well to avoid damage to rubber or metal components.

Dishwasher-wise, we have always had problems at our Alsace house, not very much elsewhere, although it's more normal cloudiness there, not red staining. Not helped by the fact of using black tableware for the last 15 years or so. I find that a very occasional run-through of said crockery with a dishwasher cleaner can help remove it, but care must be taken as they can be quite corrosive. Vinegar also helps, as previously mentioned.

But the biggest issue seems to be the salt dispensing, where the salt in the 'tank' seems to get compressed and doesn't properly soften the water. Or maybe it just doesn't dispense enough for the very hard water we have there. From time to time I'll stick a spoon down into the filler and really stir it all around, and this seems to set the machine on the right track for a while. Worth a try, and perhaps you can test the theory by just manually adding a little salt into the machine in the wash and rinse cycles.
__________________
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17.11.2020, 12:04
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,300
Groaned at 97 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 18,792 Times in 8,336 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Quote:
View Post
Worth a try, and perhaps you can test the theory by just manually adding a little salt into the machine in the wash and rinse cycles.
As far as I understand how the salt works in a dish washer this will not work.
The dishwasher has an ion exchanger, a water softener which works by replacing the Ca ions in the water with Na ions. This does not work by simply throwing salt in water or inside the dishwasher. The salt must go in the correct compartment.

Every so often the Na ions in the ion exchanger are depleted and it is saturated with Ca ions. The exchanger must be regenerated by flushing it with a Na ion rich solution: Salt brine. Hence, the German term "Regenieriersalz" for dishwater salt (It is just plain NaCl w/o iodine and anti caking agent).
__________________
"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 17.11.2020, 12:33
Ace1's Avatar
A modal singularity
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS (and Alsace)
Posts: 8,534
Groaned at 346 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 14,262 Times in 6,248 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Quote:
View Post

Every so often the Na ions in the ion exchanger are depleted and it is saturated with Ca ions. The exchanger must be regenerated by flushing it with a Na ion rich solution: Salt brine. Hence, the German term "Regenieriersalz" for dishwater salt (It is just plain NaCl w/o iodine and anti caking agent).
Makes sense, sort of, but in normal use the salt is used up, and there is no process for removing it and replacing with new, which is what I'd expect "flushing" to entail. One simply waits until the machine lights up the 'low salt' warning, then adds more salt up to the top.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17.11.2020, 14:38
EastEnders's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: former Biennoise, now in Belp
Posts: 2,125
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 3,157 Times in 1,158 Posts
EastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

All the tips you got regarding topping up the salt for dishwasher etc are top. here's an additional info

Light Tupperware also gets discoloured, when you place something dirty that has ketchup/brown sauce or generally tomato based food left on it, can also happen with curry dishes.

Rinsing the plates/bowls that contained this food BEFORE placing in the dishwasher helps prevent discolouring of the Tuperware too.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EastEnders for this useful post:
This user groans at EastEnders for this post:
  #15  
Old 17.11.2020, 14:59
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 15,526
Groaned at 314 Times in 222 Posts
Thanked 17,977 Times in 9,330 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

I handwash tupperware. I especially did when we used ones with BPA, eons ago. I still hand-wash soft plastic, color sauces get burnt on it when drying in a dishwasher, it gets manky.

Last edited by MusicChick; 17.11.2020 at 15:41.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18.11.2020, 11:09
lpuerto's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 62
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
lpuerto has no particular reputation at present
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Quote:
View Post
All the tips you got regarding topping up the salt for dishwasher etc are top. here's an additional info

Light Tupperware also gets discoloured, when you place something dirty that has ketchup/brown sauce or generally tomato based food left on it, can also happen with curry dishes.

Rinsing the plates/bowls that contained this food BEFORE placing in the dishwasher helps prevent discolouring of the Tuperware too.
This is not the issue… clearly. I had a dishwasher in Finland and we had no problem there. Never ever happened something like this before we arrived to Switzerland / Zürich.

Not to mention that for me the browning has a really characteristic mineral tone.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 18.11.2020, 11:11
lpuerto's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Zürich
Posts: 62
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
lpuerto has no particular reputation at present
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Quote:
View Post
I handwash tupperware. I especially did when we used ones with BPA, eons ago. I still hand-wash soft plastic, color sauces get burnt on it when drying in a dishwasher, it gets manky.
This is what we are doing now… but this is a change of workflow we had to do here. I was just wondering if there was any other trick we didn't know.

Last edited by lpuerto; 18.11.2020 at 11:11. Reason: Put the quote.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 18.11.2020, 11:36
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,874
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,370 Times in 2,880 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

I know they sell dishwasher cleaner here that is sold in Migros and Coop, near the dishwasher tabs, etc. It's often used to remove any build-up of calc / limescale inside the dishwasher, so maybe that would help?

I think each of them are a bit different, but often you unscrew the cap and then put it in the silverware basket, in the machine, upside down and then run it on a high temp. But each bottle will have its own directions.

This is the one I often see sold here, and it says on the label that it's used for removing calc:

Name:  handymatic-geschirrspuelmaschinen-maschinenpfleger.jpg
Views: 183
Size:  91.7 KB
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 18.11.2020, 11:40
Pancakes's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Zurich-ish
Posts: 3,874
Groaned at 181 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 7,370 Times in 2,880 Posts
Pancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond reputePancakes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Sorry, one more thing...

You said that your machine is a Swiss brand and that the manual is only in German. Is the brand Zug, by chance? If so, Zug does also have all of their manuals available for free download online, in English, as .pdf files.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 18.11.2020, 11:58
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,458
Groaned at 18 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 1,896 Times in 884 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Lime problem with light plastics on dishwasher

Well, there's a simple way to test if the discoloration on plastics is limescale. Get some vinegar, a piece of cloth and scrub. If the stain is gone, it's limescale, if not it's color from the food. We have at home some plastic items perennially stained with tomato sauce, very common.

What pancakes mention is true. The machine can be 10 years old or more and not cleaned that frequently. Try using a cleaning product a couple times and see if the outcome improves.

PS. a stupid joke....could all this be a indirect way your partner tells you to buy new kitchen items? Sometimes the truth is right in front of our eyes, but we nerds start thinking about water carbonate hardness instead of the simplest answer.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dishwasher, lime, zurich




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Where can I find black lime (dry/dried lime?) luya Food and drink 0 11.03.2016 15:07
dishwasher small problem reginamaria Housing in general 3 14.05.2013 16:25
Dishwasher problem / contract Breezy Housing in general 1 01.11.2011 23:44
Widgets to aid with light fitting problem! poot Housing in general 1 26.08.2009 16:58
Problem with the Light chain!!!? Guest Other/general 2 17.02.2008 09:49


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0