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  #21  
Old 14.12.2020, 21:27
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

I'd say - if I buy a place, I know.that an empty or underutilized neighbor plot is bound to be used sooner or later. While I feel for you, if I put my money into a land, I pay for it as much not only because I like it, but also because I know it has so much of the building reserve unused. I must admit privacy and distance from neighbours comes at a steep price in Switzerland.
With the building land conservation laws since a few years the low density zones are either frozen or actively de-zoned in further places while existing ones are converted in higher density zones and the only new zones added are of medium/high density ones (blocks of flats, not even terraced houses). While I feel for you, you might be swept by a general mind set of a "densification" wave.
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Old 15.12.2020, 05:31
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

It's not underutilised. There is an existing apartment block there. It's just not positioned so close to our border, and is within the current zone regulations. Of course zoning may change over the years. I am not opposed to the development per se - I'd just like some adjustments.
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Old 15.12.2020, 08:56
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

Raise a petition, get sufficient signatures from the natives in your community and get it on the next “Volksabstimmung” [referendum]. Planning for building projects appears on the ballot every other referendum day. I voted against the last one.
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Old 15.12.2020, 09:20
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

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Raise a petition, get sufficient signatures from the natives in your community and get it on the next “Volksabstimmung” [referendum]. Planning for building projects appears on the ballot every other referendum day. I voted against the last one.
I'll talk to the two natives in my house (aka, "the kids").
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Old 15.12.2020, 10:56
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

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I'd say - if I buy a place, I know.that an empty or underutilized neighbor plot is bound to be used sooner or later. While I feel for you, if I put my money into a land, I pay for it as much not only because I like it, but also because I know it has so much of the building reserve unused. I must admit privacy and distance from neighbours comes at a steep price in Switzerland.
With the building land conservation laws since a few years the low density zones are either frozen or actively de-zoned in further places while existing ones are converted in higher density zones and the only new zones added are of medium/high density ones (blocks of flats, not even terraced houses). While I feel for you, you might be swept by a general mind set of a "densification" wave.
Agreed, won't be long until 'space' becomes truly valuable. At the moment, the high price only applies to some areas, but if you are prepared to commute for up to 1 hour- then space becomes very affordable.
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Old 15.12.2020, 14:12
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

Interesting that my comment is confirmed in the Romandie paper 'Le Temps' yesterday.

'Avec pandémie et l’explosion du recours au télétravail, la proximité des grands centres urbains perd en importance, au bénéfice de prix plus bas et d’une meilleure qualité de vie dans les plus petites villes et à la campagne.'

with the pandemic and the explosion of home working, the proximity of large urban centres lose their importance, in favour of lower prices and a better quality of life in smaller town and in the countryside'

(and space!)

https://www.letemps.ch/economie/rats...-villas-champs
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  #27  
Old 07.01.2021, 13:26
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

Update:

We've got a letter from the developer, asking to meet to discuss our issues.

That's the first goal achieved.
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  #28  
Old 20.01.2021, 19:22
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

Update

We missed zif 21. With that any development over 3000 m2, which this is, can go an extra story and be a bit higher.

Although this could be seen as two projects (it is divided into A and B), the gemeinde agreed to treat it as one. And that's more than 3000m2. It is good to know that the regulations are being followed.

However, we discussed some of the issues behind why we raised our (apparent) legal objections, and they're open to addressing our issues in some other ways. They want things to go smoothly and they want a reputation of being considerate to neighbours. If we reach agreement on that (or not), we have to decide whether to withdraw our objections, or continue the fight. If we continue, it will go legal of course.

No further information as we're still in negotiation.
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Old 01.03.2021, 15:14
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

Everything went quiet for a while then we got an email from the developers asking when we were withdrawing our objections. It was news to us that we were!

So we phoned the cantonal buildings department and asked them what the process was and whether we actively needed to do anything. They said not. That the next step would be that we'd receive a letter from them detailing changes to the plan (if any). We could then choose whether to accept or put forward any new objections.

We informed the developers of this, and told them we're waiting for the official letter from the canton. "Oh ok. No hurry." I guess their initial gambit was to try to convince us we had no hope, and get us to withdraw.

Now we're waiting for the cantonal response.

In the meantime, families are now moving out of the apartments. It's a bit sad - some of them have been there for decades.
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  #30  
Old 16.04.2021, 18:39
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

Final update.

We and the neighbours got letters telling us the plans had been revised and we could go the Gemeinde Bauamt to check out them out. My neighbour and I went down on Monday and had a look.

It's really cool down there. They have a full 3d scale model of the entire community.

Anyway... we checked out the plans and the admin assistant kindly got us the originals so we could compare. The extra floors have been agreed by the Gemeinderat so no hope there, but the underground garage has been extensively redone to improve lines of a sight and safety. Also, under the previous plans, the rubbish bins would have been visible from our living room. They've now shifted down the hill and an extra parking space put in.

On monday some new plants arrive to help with our privacy from the new buildings.

Apparently, if we object further, we can continue, but we can't be bothered. We knew we weren't going to win, but at least this way we have some concessions and we've got the contact details of the project manager and architect should we need them. And there's the satisfaction that at least we didn't roll over a die - for what's that worth!

I'm looking forward to not living in a building site...
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  #31  
Old 17.04.2021, 03:55
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

Personally, I just don't get it why they approve the urbanization to spread horizontally instead of letting it go vertically. I don't think there is any difference living on the 10th floor or 20th floor but in whichever floor you live it makes a huge difference if you get out of the building into some greenery or just stay in a zone of all-concrete


Regarding the plants which are meant to "wipe your tears", be careful. In dense urban areas trees are often cut due to allergies of your neighbors or simply because it turns out their roots are destroying the urban area.
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  #32  
Old 20.05.2021, 17:50
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

Last meeting - this time with a representative of the Gemeinde present, and a representative of the owners of the land and current buildings, as well as the architect and the project manager.

They redesigned the underground garage exits to improve the lines of sight. This was due to one of our objections.

The Gemeinde representative confirmed that the Gemeinderat had allowed the extra height in accordance with local planning law.

We also found that they're going to renovate the school at the same time, to minimise the duration of disruption in total. They're also considering making the approaches to the school 20kph play streets which would be great.

They will involve us in the planning for the regreening of the area.

They confirmed that if our homes are made dirty by the construction, their insurance will cover that. (Obviously proof needed).

So, our objections have all been dealt with, we have good communications with the project manager, and it seems that raising the issues was a good thing to do. It's certainly better than rolling over and dying.
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  #33  
Old 22.06.2022, 17:26
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

I never responded to the allergy question. Not an issue. Our daughter suffered terribly with what was there before - anything new will be hypoallergenic!

Anyway, current situation. They make a desolation and call it peace. Well it isn't it's bloomin' noisy. They've just finished knocking down the bigger lot, opposite. Quite fascinating to watch. Several very loud bangs, shaking our building.

Before they started, they surveyed our house inside and out, taking all kinds of measurement, so if there any problems caused by the building it will be without dispute. My grandson loves diggers, so we just give him a seat by our bedroom window overlooking the site, and he's happy all day...

Of course at 9am, everything stops for Snuni.

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  #34  
Old 22.06.2022, 17:58
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

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I'd say - if I buy a place, I know.that an empty or underutilized neighbor plot is bound to be used sooner or later. While I feel for you, if I put my money into a land, I pay for it as much not only because I like it, but also because I know it has so much of the building reserve unused. I must admit privacy and distance from neighbours comes at a steep price in Switzerland.
With the building land conservation laws since a few years the low density zones are either frozen or actively de-zoned in further places while existing ones are converted in higher density zones and the only new zones added are of medium/high density ones (blocks of flats, not even terraced houses). While I feel for you, you might be swept by a general mind set of a "densification" wave.
Yep, seen this happen so many times- in UK and here- so this time, we were super aware. We had inspection by UBS last week for mortgage extension, and he concluded 'not seen any property ever with so much space and 100% garantee it won't ever be built around it.
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  #35  
Old 22.06.2022, 21:46
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

I know a number of people forced to move out after decades to more expensive and less attractive properties plus all the hassle of moving house, horrible for them especially when past retirement.

As an example, the Credit Suisse pension fund is in the process of trying to rebuild Brunaupark, Zürich, the plan is to demolish apartment blocks built between 1980 and 1996, set back from the street behind a small shopping centre.
The plan is to demolish four of the five buildings in phases, losing 240 apartments, and to rebuild higher and closer to the street, making room for 500 new units at a significantly higher rent. The average monthly rent in the complex is reasonable for Zurich, in the range of CHF1,500 ($1,520) to CHF2,500. The new apartments will cost CHF2,500-CHF3,500.
The project was planned to start in 2020 but due to heavy opposition is delayed to 2024.

This is not just a problem for people who rent, I know people who thought owning their apartment was protection against forced moves but got outvoted.
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  #36  
Old 23.06.2022, 11:43
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

And for those who have built detached homes with garden and pool, surrounded by field. They enjoyed such for 20 years- but are now surrounded by several 5 storey apartment blocks on 3 sides, with villas on the north side. Very difficult to sell too, so a move is not really feasible. Balconies look straight into the garden and pool on 3 sides.
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Old 23.06.2022, 12:13
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

Im curious about this quote from your first post

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However, the sticks have gone up, and for the one nearest our house, instead of the building being 20m from our land boundary (and therefore 23m from the front of our house), it's now 6m (9m). And of course it's taller. Some of our neighbours have got it even worse!
Is that still the case? The building being so close to you? And could you not object to this particular part?
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  #38  
Old 23.06.2022, 15:01
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Re: Replacement apartment blocks being built

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And for those who have built detached homes with garden and pool, surrounded by field. They enjoyed such for 20 years- but are now surrounded by several 5 storey apartment blocks on 3 sides, with villas on the north side. Very difficult to sell too, so a move is not really feasible. Balconies look straight into the garden and pool on 3 sides.
If the fields are farmland, it takes a long time to rezone it, even if it were possible.

We are surrounded by forest and vineyard. None of the owners can build.
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