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  #41  
Old 09.12.2020, 00:22
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Some men will then still not get it, and will try again to persuade or to beg or to threaten or force you to say or do something. That is a bad experience, when it happens. Even so, although there are too many creeps in the world, and some very bad, inconsiderate, self-opinionated and even violent men, and it is horrible to be on the receiving end of what those men say or do, please remember that most men do not want to hurt, or use violence or force against women, and most men abhorr the thought that some men do so.
The kind of men who have the self-confidence to chat up random women are disproportionately often unpleasant when rebuffed. The others just look at you longingly across the room or find excuses to spend more time around you, in which case you need to make it clear that no heads will be bitten off if he were to ask. In fact, you will probably have to make the first move yourself...

What I also noticed is the distinct absence of help from younger men when facing unpleasant advances in, e.g. the tram. But those Lotharios did not factor in the most terrifying arm of law and order known to Switzerland: the fit and healthy retired person. Bonus points if they were originally immigrants from the Southern part of Europe. Especially the women. You may end up simultaneously being defended and berated for "dressing like a floozy" or being out on your own at night but the most pressing problem will be gone like a flash.
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Old 09.12.2020, 00:22
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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ETA to point out that we are, in fact, now in the 21st Century and women are not wandering around on the constant lookout for Prince Charming, no matter where he may choose to surface. Also, could you BE any more patronising?
are you single perchance?
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  #43  
Old 09.12.2020, 00:33
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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are you single perchance?
Voluntarily and happily so, yes. Don't want kids either, since you will probably ask that as a follow-up question, never have. And yes, I do indeed have cats. Isn't it lovely that you can now put me in a neat little box so you don't actually have take anything I said on board? Much less taxing on the old brain.
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  #44  
Old 09.12.2020, 00:40
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

i just thought nasims advice was quite nice actually. maybe i read it wrong.
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Old 09.12.2020, 01:04
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

Telling a grown woman to "be good" after explaining how flirting works according to him is not "nice", it is patronising.
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  #46  
Old 09.12.2020, 02:08
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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The kind of men who have the self-confidence to chat up random women are disproportionately often unpleasant when rebuffed.
I think that anyone, no matter the gender, needs to get together a certain amount of self-confidence to start to chat up anyone. And no-one likes to be rejected.

Although it can hurt to receive a clear, direct, unambiguous "no", that also sets the wannabe flirter free to not waste any time on the pursuit, to move on and look somewhere else.

Yes, it can be tedious to have to brush off the unpleasantness, but the more consistent one is with the "no", the less long, in general, that bad behaviour is likely to last. If speaking a language with a formal and informal address, like French and German, always use the formal "vous" or "Sie" in such moments, even if the person is of a similar age.

Anyone who does not accept a "no" is behaving badly. The more consistent the no-sayer is, by decidedly not engaging in any futher interaction, the more quickly the hope will die and the person is likely to give up and leave.

Of course, unfortunately, there are the crazies who just won't accept a "no", and/or who want to keep annoying someone. For any such interaction that takes place in public, a good trick can be to walk away. If appealing for help, if possible choose a couple or a family. Say loudly: "I do not know this person!"
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  #47  
Old 09.12.2020, 02:10
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Be good and take care of yourself. That’s the most important.
Would you please clarify what you meant by "be good", in this context? Thank you.
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  #48  
Old 09.12.2020, 05:03
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Frightening is that you immediately suggested to report the guy to his employer.

Can we please accept that people can (try to) flirt in their work environments and that as long as there is nothing aggressive we should all be able to handle this as adults (which of course includes the guy being able to handle a push back)?
Work environment? It was in the Ops apartment, her private and safe space. There is a huge element of trust that goes into being allowed to enter people's apartments to do things, especially two men in a woman's place, and and If you can't figure out why it it isn't cool to act like teenagers, laughing in front of her and writing inappropriate notes, then you REALLY have issues on the understanding of this topic.

Unwanted sexual advances inside your home from people in a position of trust that you have allowed in there to perform work are not OK. End of story

Out of interest, are you male or female?

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This is my guess: the younger janitor, being of a similar age to you, might be interested in you, but not have had the courage to say so. I wonder whether the elder man gave you a slip of paper with the younger man's telephone number, perhaps because the younger one didn't have the courage to do so himself. That might explain their giggling.

If I were in your postion, I think I would do nothing at all, to start with, besides making a note of which day and time it was, and keeping the note safe and making a photo of it. Documentation done. Then, I would wait and see.

You seem certain that you are not interested in the older man, so you just need to decide for yourself whether or not you might be interested in getting to know the younger of the two.

In a week or two's time, one or the other of the men might ask you whether you've got the note, or intend to call, etc. If you're not interested in either, just answer: "Oh, no, I'm not going to call. I'm not interested." Make a note of when you did that, too. Then, wait and see.

If you are very clear, with no apologies, no excuses, no fake stories about not having time, or having a boyfriend, or being gay, but just honestly say: "No, I'm not interested," in many cases that will suffice.

The reply might be something like: "Oh, that's a pity, come one, be nice, he's all alone in Zurich and is looking for a girlfriend. Du bist sympathisch." Then, repeat: "I want you and him to understand: I am not interested. No, I will not call. No, I won't go out with him. No, I won't go out with you. Believe me. The answer is NO." In many more cases, that degree of flat statement will get the person to stop.

Some men will then still not get it, and will try again to persuade or to beg or to threaten or force you to say or do something. That is a bad experience, when it happens. Even so, although there are too many creeps in the world, and some very bad, inconsiderate, self-opinionated and even violent men, and it is horrible to be on the receiving end of what those men say or do, please remember that most men do not want to hurt, or use violence or force against women, and most men abhorr the thought that some men do so.

If you say no, and he doesn't just back off, and goes on to say more, repeat: "No!" and, if need be, with full authority, add: "Leave my flat, now!" If it becomes necessary to speak like that, then, yes, report this to your landlord.

This post reads like it was written in a 1950's women's magazine advice column...

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are you single perchance?
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i just thought nasims advice was quite nice actually. maybe i read it wrong.
Or maybe you're just a ****?

Last edited by Chuff; 09.12.2020 at 06:57.
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  #49  
Old 09.12.2020, 06:50
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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are you single perchance?
I knew at some.point someone would come.along and ask the questions.... Surprised it's not more directly insulting
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Old 09.12.2020, 09:54
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

Troll detected. (actually from the opening post, seeing the latest posts I am only further convinced lol)

But a fun early-friday thread I suppose.
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  #51  
Old 09.12.2020, 10:31
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Hi everyone,

Of course I wouldn't want him to cause him to lose a job because they did nothing bad (besides the flirty note) and have been nice so far, so that's why I say I will respond diplomatic first I will wait until I see him again next week if he would say or ask anything. If not, I will just never mind and show clearly that I am not interested so that he doesn't get a wrong hint. I was actually also planning to buy him a small box of chocolate for new year to thank him for coming to clean my room, but I think that plan must be cancelled.

Also not sure if the note is actually from the older janitor or the young janitor. I never talked to the young janitor.

Come on, come on, come on, guys (and girls) over 40. Danilins is a millennial! She did not have the chance and opportunity that we had to learn and experience meeting, communicating, flirting and responding, 'the old way'.

I have seen this type of response across cultures (it is called 'continental divide'), now we see it across generations -- the youngest generation (leaving apart all of these modernity on 'non-gender specific, 'no cultural appropriation, 'no, no, no....' is more used to on line interactions, than to real one. When was the last time that you guys & girls send / received a note saying 'I like you'... wasn't that in school, a note passed across the whole class, everybody giggling and you (both sides, sender and receiver) feeling confused, blushed and fuzzed?...

Just take it like that. A note, saying someone finds you nice, and attractive - someone who cannot express it anyhow else. Say thank you, but you have someone else, and he will move on :-)

Check this video...and you will understand the communication divide among gnerations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j4rrgr0KeU
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  #52  
Old 09.12.2020, 11:01
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Today something really weird happened to me . I was asleep in my apartment at the time when janitor men come, then I woke up from his door knock. He just wanted to tell me that that there is no room cleaning today- only kitchen cleaning. Me, half asleep half awaken, led him to my stove asking him not to turn it off because I was stewing something.

Before he left, he gave me a note saying

"Many regards!
House keeping [his name].
[his number]
Du bist sehr sympatisch!!!"

and then giggle with another janitor Does anyone have a clue what he means or wants? I looked up the meaning of 'sympatisch' and it just means 'nice/friendly', so perhaps he just wanted to be friends (???)

Maybe a bit more context- the janitor men are already uncles in 50's I think. They are sent by my landlord to clean the apartment every week. I already saw him 4-5 times so far, and we chatted a bit while he cleaned.
Just curious:
1. What is your accommodation situation where someone comes to inform you about room cleaning ?
2. If this guy's declared purpose was to inform you of some cleaning schedule, why did you invite him in to the apartment ?
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Old 09.12.2020, 11:18
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

Hi me.anon,

In the contract, the janitors must be allowed to access the bedroom and kitchen on Tuesday morning every week for mandatory whole-building cleaning- the cleaning company is arranged by the building owner. The kitchen is cleaned every week, but the bedroom is cleaned every alternate week.

On weeks that there is no room cleaning, the janitors usually knock the door to let us know that there is no bedroom cleaning (not specifically to my bedroom's door, but to everyone's door- all my male flatmate's doors- as well). Then they will just go to the kitchen to do their cleaning without entering my bedroom. I never allowed them (and they never tried) to enter my bedroom on weeks that don't have bedroom cleaning either.
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Old 09.12.2020, 11:19
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Just curious:
1. What is your accommodation situation where someone comes to inform you about room cleaning ?
2. If this guy's declared purpose was to inform you of some cleaning schedule, why did you invite him in to the apartment ?
Read posts in a bit more detail. He informed her there was no room cleaning but that there was kitchen cleaning, so she let him in to clean the kitchen.
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Old 09.12.2020, 11:28
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Hi everyone,

Thank you for all your answers, and sorry for the confusion, yes I am a 20's girl

= I think I should go with a diplomatic way first and say that either I am already married or I am gay. I think this would be a good idea, unless more problems can come (?). If no problem, how should I write it in German?
= Or another idea- I think I can ask my guy flatmate to fake be a boyfriend with me (?)
= Should I also write the landlord about this now? Or safe it for later?

I am actually not too offended because so far he has not done anything that scares me, but of course it doesn't feel great knowing that I will still see him every week and there could be awkwardness (regardless of whether I respond or not). They are actually nice so far, but maybe they took a wrong hint from me (although I think I never hinted anything ) In fact so far the only things I talk to them are like he said he will finish in 5 minutes, I say ok, etc., so I am confused how he suddenly has interests.

also more context about myself- I think I don't think I am likeable by mainstream standard of ladies . I look nerdy, always dress like guys as I wear soccer jerseys, my skin condition isn't great, I eat so much. And I never had a guy liking me in 20+ years of life. So confused!
Sounds like the start to a Swiss Romcom
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Old 09.12.2020, 11:32
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Read posts in a bit more detail. He informed her there was no room cleaning but that there was kitchen cleaning, so she let him in to clean the kitchen.
Ah yes. Thank you for that clarification. Now the whole arrangement, which appears to be hotel like, is clear, that makes sense.

So the analogy for me would be that I was in a hotel room and the cleaning lady came in and wrote her telephone number on a slip of paper. I suppose my reaction would depend on a number of factors. A major one being if my wife was also in the room at the same time.
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Old 09.12.2020, 12:52
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Agreed. I would take a picture of the note as proof just in case and then simply hand him the note back with a confident "Danke, aber ich habe kein Interesse und es ist nicht angebracht, Kunden solche Zettel zu geben." (Thanks, but I am not interested and it is not appropriate to give this kind of note to a client.) No need to explain why or do a cutesy voice to soften the blow, stand tall and be certain of what you are saying. Hopefully he will just grin ruefully and mutter something about "a man has to try" but leave it at that.

If he doesn't accept the answer and starts asking for an explanation, you can follow it up with "Ich hoffe es ist nicht notwendig, dies mithilfe des Vermieters zu klären." (I hope it is not necessary to clarify this matter with the landlord's help.). Again, be certain about it and don't giggle or go red in the face. Then walk off. If he didn't accept your initial no gracefully, I would definitely do as kri suggested and ask for a female cleaning crew. No need to throw him under the bus, unless he is really unpleasant, then go for it.
I think this is the best course of action. I am still baffled though by people not grasping that this is happening in her home, the last place you can retreat to in case of danger. It isn't normal workplace flirting... also, since people also don't get it, normal workplace flirting is a bad idea.....
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Old 09.12.2020, 13:00
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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I think this is the best course of action. I am still baffled though by people not grasping that this is happening in her home, the last place you can retreat to in case of danger. It isn't normal workplace flirting... also, since people also don't get it, normal workplace flirting is a bad idea.....
Yep. Keep your personal fountain pen out of the company ink, as they say.
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Old 09.12.2020, 13:11
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Hi me.anon,

In the contract, the janitors must be allowed to access the bedroom and kitchen on Tuesday morning every week for mandatory whole-building cleaning- the cleaning company is arranged by the building owner. The kitchen is cleaned every week, but the bedroom is cleaned every alternate week.

On weeks that there is no room cleaning, the janitors usually knock the door to let us know that there is no bedroom cleaning (not specifically to my bedroom's door, but to everyone's door- all my male flatmate's doors- as well). Then they will just go to the kitchen to do their cleaning without entering my bedroom. I never allowed them (and they never tried) to enter my bedroom on weeks that don't have bedroom cleaning either.
The note might not even have been for you then, OP.

From all these answers here I do wonder, how people meet these days or rather I'm not surprised about all those complaints about "I can't make friends here".

I meet guys in all kinds of impromptu ways. Most land in the friend zone. Okay, some may have wondered how they ended up there at first but many live in it happily for decades now. My life would be very dull without them.
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Old 09.12.2020, 13:43
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

I actually think those guys are looking for a tip from OP.

OP - if their attention is making you feel uncomfortable to the point of sharing your question on a public board, don't go out of your way to give them a box of chocolates. A. you worrying about this makes them not deserve the candy. B. they might interpret it the way you wouldn't be happy with.

Merry Xmas.

PS - aside of the cultural difference in a certain take on professionality and throwing cheesy pickup lines, they sound like jerks, tbh, and their compliment unwelcome.
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