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  #101  
Old 10.12.2020, 09:55
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

So there might be another angle again....given that blue collar service staff are often treated like crap by "more worldly" individuals, is it possible that the janitor was giving a genuine compliment, and the number was included so that the OP could ring for priority help?

My concierge did a similar thing in my former apartment, and whilst his comment of 'sympatisch' also caused confusion for me initially, he went on to explain that I was the only tenant who greeted him nicely everyday and took the time to know about his family and how his day was going.

And a Lindt airport employee also used that word when handing me a bunch of freebies in addition to my chocolate purchases - he too volunteered that most customers were dismissive and rude and he looked forward to my weekly visits (back in the old days when flying was "safe")

I still have the personal cell number of the building manager for my London flat - he gave it to me on the basis that I could call day or night if I ever needed help, and he wasn't being flirty, just extending some VIP service?

OP, I'd just see what happens when you interact with the 2 chaps again. As you wrote in your earlier posts you don't know which one the note was from (albeit you later wrote that it was given to you by the older chap), you don't want anyone to lose their jobs, and at this stage, it might just be a cultural misunderstanding.....plus if one of them is "trying it on" it sounds like you're sensible enough to manage it.

Out of curiosity, do the janitor staff actually have a key to your lodgings? And was it purely coincidence that you happened to be alone in a lobby when you next bumped into that janitor or are you thinking he was waiting for you? Context is everything...
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  #102  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:01
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Chuff, this isn't about believing what I like. This is about taking what the guy wrote and not knowing what his real intentions were with it or what his mindset was while writing it (none of us really know for sure)... and realizing that calling someone "sympatisch" is not the same as making an unwanted sexual advance toward them. In this case, it's like the difference between someone complimenting a woman on her personality and asking her out and someone saying "Hey baby, you got a nice ass. Here's my number."

So again, I agree that what he did was inappropriate, and especially due to the age difference, but I wouldn't mistake it with being an "unwanted sexual advance."
I think that "sympatisch" is a perfect word to use is a conversation. The problem is just to leave it on a note and add a phone number to it. It's just pretty creepy.
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  #103  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:10
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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I think that "sympatisch" is a perfect word to use is a conversation. The problem is just to leave it on a note and add a phone number to it. It's just pretty creepy.
I think it's a thinly veiled unwanted sexual advance.
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  #104  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:10
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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I think that "sympatisch" is a perfect word to use is a conversation. The problem is just to leave it on a note and add a phone number to it. It's just pretty creepy.
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I think it's a thinly veiled unwanted sexual advance.
Exactly.
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  #105  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:14
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

I wonder if the Janitor has any clue what a discussion he/his actions have started.... :-).
That said, the discussion illustrates the challenging dynamics of today.
Personally, the best remedy for unwarranted compliments is a Gracious but Firm Thank You which should get the message across for most. Some may need more clear messaging.
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  #106  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:16
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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I think that "sympatisch" is a perfect word to use is a conversation. The problem is just to leave it on a note and add a phone number to it. It's just pretty creepy.
I agree that it's creepy and I had commented earlier in this thread that I understand why the OP feels "creeped out" by it, with him being the janitor and due to the age difference. But my point was that calling someone sympatisch and leaving your phone # is not the same as an "unwanted sexual advance."

My Swiss husband said that calling someone "sympatisch" is like saying that they are "sweet" in English. If someone called me "sweet" and then gave me their #, I wouldn't accuse them of saying that they want to have sex with me.

Also, I think that women being flirted with is something that most women have to deal with -- and learn to deal with -- at some point in their lives, regardless of how creepy they do or do not perceive it to be. Any time someone flirts with me, I don't raise a red flag and accuse them of sexual harassment or implying that they want to **** me... And this goes back to my other point that if I was a guy, I'd be afraid to ask a woman out or compliment her for fear that they might inflate it as me implying that I want to have sex with them / being sexual harrassment.

I think this is a situation that the OP should probably try to figure out how deal with and get over it rather than blowing it out of proportion at this point, because as unfortunate as it may be at times, having to deal with flirty men is something that I think most women have to deal with at some point in their lives. If I made a huge fuss every time a guy has ever flirted with me, people would probably think I was histrionic.
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  #107  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:20
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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I agree that it's creepy and I had commented earlier in this thread that I understand why the OP feels "creeped out" by it, with him being the janitor and due to the age difference. But my point was that calling someone sympatisch and leaving your phone # is not the same as an "unwanted sexual advance."

My Swiss husband said that calling someone "sympatisch" is like saying that they are "sweet" in English. If someone called me "sweet" and then gave me their #, I wouldn't accuse them of saying that they want to have sex with me.

Also, I think that women being flirted with is something that most women have to deal with -- and learn to deal with -- at some point in their lives, regardless of how creepy they do or do not perceive it to be. Any time someone flirts with me, I don't raise a red flag and accuse them of sexual harassment or implying that they want to **** me... And this goes back to my other point that if I was a guy, I'd be afraid to ask a woman out or compliment her for fear that they might inflate it as me implying that I want to have sex with them / being sexual harrassment.

I think this is a situation that the OP should probably try to figure out how deal with and get over it rather than blowing it out of proportion at this point, because as unfortunate as it may be at times, having to deal with flirty men is something that I think most women have to deal with at some point in their lives. If I made a huge fuss every time a guy has ever flirted with me, people would probably think I was histrionic.
Really, so what would you think if an older man gave you a note saying that you are "nice" with his number on it... that they wanted to call you every now and then for a chat?

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  #108  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:26
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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I wonder if the Janitor has any clue what a discussion he/his actions have started.... :-).
That said, the discussion illustrates the challenging dynamics of today.
Personally, the best remedy for unwarranted compliments is a Gracious but Firm Thank You which should get the message across for most. Some may need more clear messaging.
I almost agree. Only, change "Thank You" to "No".


As an aside: in Swiss German, if one asks whether someone would like a glass of water, the answer "danke" can mean no. It is the short form form of "Thank you for the offer, but no, I do not want any water." Do English-speakers use "thanks" or "thank you" in that way, too?
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  #109  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:34
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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I almost agree. Only, change "Thank You" to "No".


As an aside: in Swiss German, if one asks whether someone would like a glass of water, the answer "danke" can mean no. It is the short form form of "Thank you for the offer, but no, I do not want any water." Do English-speakers use "thanks" or "thank you" in that way, too?
Good point, doropfiz. The way we use words and expressions are so different from one culture to another.
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Old 10.12.2020, 10:38
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Really, so what would you think if an older man gave you a note saying that you are "nice" with his number on it... that they wanted to call you every now and then for a chat?

As I said, I'd think it was rather creepy (depending on the age difference and whether or not he knew I was married). But I wouldn't make a huge issue of it and would just get the point across that I'm not interested and move on. My point was that calling someone sympatisch and giving your number is not the same as saying "I want to f*** you" or sexually harassing someone.
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  #111  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:42
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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As I said, I'd think it was rather creepy (depending on the age difference and whether or not he knew I was married). But I wouldn't make a huge issue of it and would just get the point across that I'm not interested and move on. My point was that calling someone sympatisch and giving your number is not the same as saying "I want to f*** you" or sexually harassing someone.
So now we have moved the logic from saying the note wasn't a come-on, to justifying it with: "if a man isn't directly saying they want to **** you and overtly sexually harrassing you then it's not a problem". Despite the fact that the guy is apparently 50 and services her apartment and despite the fact that sexual harrassment can take many discreet forms. For all we know, a note from this guy could lead to further uncomfortable situations, as lets remember, he goes into her apartment to clean it.

The mind boggles and you can really tell some people in this thread are just so, so out of touch with the modern world.
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  #112  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:46
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

Quick glance at the thread and I see that this is the next hot thread and that my specialities are required The things that stick out for me, looking at it objectively without any virtue signalling!
  • The older guy is maybe stuck in his old ways. He should have known better!
  • The younger guy seems immature, clueless and from the Tinder generation?
  • If it was a sexual advance and if it got rejected, how did the guy think that he could still enter OP's bedroom regularly and continue to clean and act as if nothing happened
  • Maybe cleaners keep changing? He thought it was worth a shot even if it meant losing his job?
  • It does seem that one or both cleaners were interested in some sexual action!
  • For me "sympatisch" can be used in many ways- sexual, semi-sexual and also in a non-sexual way.
  • There is a tiny chance that they gave the number in case her friends were looking for cleaners too? Although in that case they should have said so! Maybe they did and the OP did not understand? The giggling part makes it unlikely.
  • OP have any underwear or sexual toys gone missing or found out of place in recent weeks?
  • I would check for hidden cameras too, you never know these days (highly unlikely in this case maybe)

On a side note-
  • Part of being an adult I feel is that I do my own cleaning and not let any unknown person into my private space!
  • Feelings and facts can overlap or be completely separate! Just because a human feels something does not make it a fact. We know how many unstable people are out there in this world and on this very forum!
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  #113  
Old 10.12.2020, 10:53
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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So now we have moved the logic from saying the note wasn't a come-on, to justifying it with: "if a man isn't directly saying they want to **** you and overtly sexually harrassing you then it's not a problem". Despite the fact that the guy is apparently 50 and services her apartment and despite the fact that sexual harrassment can take many discreet forms. For all we know, a note from this guy could lead to further uncomfortable situations, as lets remember, he goes into her apartment to clean it.

The mind boggles and you can really tell some people in this thread are just so, so out of touch with the modern world.
Chuff, I think that part of "being in touch with the modern world" involves the ability to deal with situations where someone is being flirted with and not completely blowing it up into something beyond that.

Where did I ever say that the note wasn't a come-on? One of my first comments in this thread stated that I understand why the OP feels "creeped out."

What I said was that I don't think it's necessarily an "unwanted sexual advance." And I said that because I think there is a difference between expressing that you are romantically interested in someone and an "unwanted sexual advance."

Chuff, I think it's quite clear at this point that you will choose to misinterpret me no matter what I say and that we share different perceptions. So let's just move on and spare everyone else here of having to endure this seemingly endless cycle of debate resulting from our differing perceptions of a situation that in truth we know very little about (regarding the janitor's true intentions). And as someone already mentioned here earlier, for all we know, the name and phone # on that paper could belong to the much younger janitor.
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  #114  
Old 10.12.2020, 11:08
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

Man after skimming this thread I'm glad I'm no longer in the dating game..

Is there a manual on what's allowed these days? How do people actually get together? Recorded letters?

I guess that's why there are so many websites for finding people, there's a button to contact people and you don't need to worry if you did it properly or not.

Seems like a minefield out there..
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  #115  
Old 10.12.2020, 11:10
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Is there a manual on what's allowed these days?
Sure! Male Feminist Pickup Artist

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  #116  
Old 10.12.2020, 11:18
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Man after skimming this thread I'm glad I'm no longer in the dating game..

Is there a manual on what's allowed these days? How do people actually get together? Recorded letters?

I guess that's why there are so many websites for finding people, there's a button to contact people and you don't need to worry if you did it properly or not.

Seems like a minefield out there..

And the irony is, from what I've been told, many of those dating sites are full of women who post sexy photos of themselves, soliciting "that kind" of attention from men. (e.g. the proverbial cleavage shot, fish-face kissy lips, etc. I saw so much of that on Facebook alone).
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Old 10.12.2020, 11:25
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Man after skimming this thread I'm glad I'm no longer in the dating game..

Is there a manual on what's allowed these days? How do people actually get together? Recorded letters?

I guess that's why there are so many websites for finding people, there's a button to contact people and you don't need to worry if you did it properly or not.

Seems like a minefield out there..
I think every generation feels like that, one way or another...things go either too PC or not enough, it always seems to fill that "shocking" criteria.

I'd say, maybe OP just needs to open the door to him surrounded by all her roomates and say "What's up, pops" and be very merry, not worried. That also seems to have worked
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  #118  
Old 10.12.2020, 11:32
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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And the irony is, from what I've been told, many of those dating sites are full of women who post sexy photos of themselves, soliciting "that kind" of attention from men. (e.g. the proverbial cleavage shot, fish-face kissy lips, etc. I saw so much of that on Facebook alone).
Soliciting it....that's the main difference.

OP seems to have been bothered/puzzled by that note, so I suspect she didn't solicit anything.

Now the only thing that could have also happened is what smileygreebens said, it happened to me too, many times. It would be a pity if the guy meant it that way and didn't know how to do it.

Nice post, smileygreebins.

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So there might be another angle again....given that blue collar service staff are often treated like crap by "more worldly" individuals, is it possible that the janitor was giving a genuine compliment, and the number was included so that the OP could ring for priority help?

My concierge did a similar thing in my former apartment, and whilst his comment of 'sympatisch' also caused confusion for me initially, he went on to explain that I was the only tenant who greeted him nicely everyday and took the time to know about his family and how his day was going.


And a Lindt airport employee also used that word when handing me a bunch of freebies in addition to my chocolate purchases - he too volunteered that most customers were dismissive and rude and he looked forward to my weekly visits (back in the old days when flying was "safe")

I still have the personal cell number of the building manager for my London flat - he gave it to me on the basis that I could call day or night if I ever needed help, and he wasn't being flirty, just extending some VIP service?

OP, I'd just see what happens when you interact with the 2 chaps again. As you wrote in your earlier posts you don't know which one the note was from (albeit you later wrote that it was given to you by the older chap), you don't want anyone to lose their jobs, and at this stage, it might just be a cultural misunderstanding.....plus if one of them is "trying it on" it sounds like you're sensible enough to manage it.

Out of curiosity, do the janitor staff actually have a key to your lodgings? And was it purely coincidence that you happened to be alone in a lobby when you next bumped into that janitor or are you thinking he was waiting for you? Context is everything...
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Old 10.12.2020, 11:44
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Interesting. I had no idea... (well, obviously).



Yeah, that is quite odd.

To the OP... To me, I think he was just trying to be nice and complimentary (but in a flirty way). Maybe just try to be nice about it or ignore it but kindly get the message across that you're not interested. And if all else fails, tell him you're gay.
Or say you are lesbian
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  #120  
Old 10.12.2020, 11:46
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Re: confused- got a note from janitor man that I am 'sympatisch', plus his number

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Soliciting it....that's the main difference.

OP seems to have been bothered/puzzled by that note, so I suspect she didn't solicit anything.

Now the only thing that could have also happened is what smileygreebens said, it happened to me too, many times. It would be a pity if the guy meant it that way and didn't know how to do it.
I never implied (or intended to imply) that she did solicit anything. I certainly don't think that's the case with the OP. My point with that comment is that sometimes women DO solicit that kind of attention from men, and I can see how that might easily confuse some men in terms of what they think women want in terms of attention.

This all actually reminds me a bit of that Tara Reade thing last year, where Reade was accusing Biden of making her uncomfortable and being sexual toward her for putting his hand on her shoulder. So it came down to the differences between her perception of what he did and his intentions. So I'm not saying that the janitor's note is the same as putting his hand on the OP's shoulder (or whatever) -- I feel the need to clarify that -- but the fact that what he did made her uncomfortable does not necessarily mean that the janitor was sexually harassing her or intending to imply that he wants to have sex with her.
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