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Old 21.12.2020, 19:03
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Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

massive increase recently as very active recruiting campaigns have taken place, including puttin flyers on windscreens in the car parks of French hospitals and Care homes, etc- as the pandemic has put huge pressure on local hospitals with increased work load, but also increasing numbers of staff being sick, or sufferering burn out, stress, etc.

A french nurse gets paid the statutory State salary of 2200 Euros- currently they get about 5000 Euros in Switzerland so quite a bit more than double.

Very very difificult for French hospitals and care homes to retain staff in such conditions. Also very difficult to find plumbers, electricians, restaurants Chefs, qualified watch-makers, precision engineering, etc, etc- all skills having a massive premium here.

Can't blame local French regions from being really upset about this. And I can't really blame those French workers who prefer much higher salaries and better conditions, more staff ratio per patient, etc.

Source Résumé of 20 Minutes.
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Old 21.12.2020, 19:43
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

I remember reading somewhere that ~25% of doctors in France where not born in France. So, they invited them from somewhere else offering some Euros, why are they upset we offer the doctors some additional CHF for their efforts and skills?

That's for medical workers. For the rest, don't we have rising unemployment and RHT/kurzarbeit in CH? Why invite restaurant Chefs when restaurants will be closed for weeks? Save the exceptions in low infection rate cantons.
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Old 21.12.2020, 19:53
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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massive increase recently as very active recruiting campaigns have taken place, including puttin flyers on windscreens in the car parks of French hospitals and Care homes, etc- as the pandemic has put huge pressure on local hospitals with increased work load, but also increasing numbers of staff being sick, or sufferering burn out, stress, etc.

A french nurse gets paid the statutory State salary of 2200 Euros- currently they get about 5000 Euros in Switzerland so quite a bit more than double.

Very very difificult for French hospitals and care homes to retain staff in such conditions. Also very difficult to find plumbers, electricians, restaurants Chefs, qualified watch-makers, precision engineering, etc, etc- all skills having a massive premium here.

Can't blame local French regions from being really upset about this. And I can't really blame those French workers who prefer much higher salaries and better conditions, more staff ratio per patient, etc.


Source Résumé of 20 Minutes.
I know a couple of nurses who live in Ski resorts do 10 nights a month work in Geneva for twice the pay of working full time in France.
The French hospitals have to pay huge social costs as do the staff, the net cost to the hospital is not that different to France, thank socialism for that.

I find cleaners in the Chamonix want 30 euro an hour cash! About the same you pay in ZH with social costs.
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Old 21.12.2020, 19:55
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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massive increase recently as very active recruiting campaigns have taken place, including puttin flyers on windscreens in the car parks of French hospitals and Care homes, etc- as the pandemic has put huge pressure on local hospitals with increased work load, but also increasing numbers of staff being sick, or sufferering burn out, stress, etc.

A french nurse gets paid the statutory State salary of 2200 Euros- currently they get about 5000 Euros in Switzerland so quite a bit more than double.

Very very difificult for French hospitals and care homes to retain staff in such conditions. Also very difficult to find plumbers, electricians, restaurants Chefs, qualified watch-makers, precision engineering, etc, etc- all skills having a massive premium here.

Can't blame local French regions from being really upset about this. And I can't really blame those French workers who prefer much higher salaries and better conditions, more staff ratio per patient, etc.

Source Résumé of 20 Minutes.
It would be more appropriate if the French regions would be upset that nurses get only 2200 euros. That's a very low salary for people that are educated, have to work really hard and have a high corona risk.
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Old 21.12.2020, 19:56
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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It would be more appropriate if the French regions would be upset that nurses get only 2200 euros. That's a very low salary for people that are educated, have to work really hard and have a high corona risk.
Thats a lot more than many people earn, nurses can retire at 50 in France.....
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Old 21.12.2020, 19:56
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

Quite a few of them have been staying over and paying Swiss rents for small studios of rooms, in order to shelter vulnerable families over the border. Huge sacrifices. In the Care Home where my parents were, 90% of the staff,, both nursing and assistants, cleaners, were French.
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Old 21.12.2020, 20:48
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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massive increase recently as very active recruiting campaigns have taken place, including puttin flyers on windscreens in the car parks of French hospitals and Care homes, etc- as the pandemic has put huge pressure on local hospitals with increased work load, but also increasing numbers of staff being sick, or sufferering burn out, stress, etc.

A french nurse gets paid the statutory State salary of 2200 Euros- currently they get about 5000 Euros in Switzerland so quite a bit more than double.

Very very difificult for French hospitals and care homes to retain staff in such conditions. Also very difficult to find plumbers, electricians, restaurants Chefs, qualified watch-makers, precision engineering, etc, etc- all skills having a massive premium here.

Can't blame local French regions from being really upset about this. And I can't really blame those French workers who prefer much higher salaries and better conditions, more staff ratio per patient, etc.

Source Résumé of 20 Minutes.
If the French regions want enough high quality staff they can go pay the going rate. I don't have much sympathy for employers paying poverty wages.

Ultimately the cost of a high tax / low pay socialist system is that nobody wants to live and work there anymore and you suffer a brain drain.
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Old 21.12.2020, 21:03
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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If the French regions want enough high quality staff they can go pay the going rate. I don't have much sympathy for employers paying poverty wages.

Ultimately the cost of a high tax / low pay socialist system is that nobody wants to live and work there anymore and you suffer a brain drain.
But that is the going rate in France. Wages go from: Low at €12500, Average at €49500 and High at €221000. €26400 is not a bad wage for general living in France, especially if it is part of a 2 wage household. Having lived in CH and now in France our income is less than a quarter than what it was and our standard of living twice as good. Money talks but to what cost? Burnout and only looking at what you can consume rather than how you can live.
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Old 21.12.2020, 21:40
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

@countrybumpkin: the poverty line in France is 60% of the median income or ~20K EUR. 26400 is only 6K above poverty line. Nice as a second income in the household but consider 1/3 of households in France are 1 person ones.

One day we'll leave CH too and income will take a hit, but the accumulated wealth makes income drops affordable. Quite complicate to save when earnings are a bit above poverty line. One acquaintance did save a chose to have a simpler life. Worked as crazy in Germany for a decade, semi-retired this year at 50 YO as freelancer consultant from a seaside farm in Bretagne. The farm was bought with savings from the burnout years.
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Old 21.12.2020, 21:55
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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@countrybumpkin: the poverty line in France is 60% of the median income or ~20K EUR. 26400 is only 6K above poverty line. Nice as a second income in the household but consider 1/3 of households are 1 person ones.
I do realise that. Our 2 neighbours fall into that single person household and both earn close to or under the median. We count ourselves lucky that the 6 years we spent in CH has given us the financial cushion that enables us, with our microenterprise earnings and Swiss invalidity pension, to be above that median level. Having been witness to, and still living daily with the consequences of a catastrophic burnout, I would just add that the grass may be greener but not always healthier on the other side of the fence.
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Old 22.12.2020, 14:20
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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But that is the going rate in France. Wages go from: Low at €12500, Average at €49500 and High at €221000.
Is that gross salary, and net income roughly half that?
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Old 22.12.2020, 14:32
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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But that is the going rate in France. Wages go from: Low at €12500, Average at €49500 and High at €221000. €26400 is not a bad wage for general living in France, especially if it is part of a 2 wage household. Having lived in CH and now in France our income is less than a quarter than what it was and our standard of living twice as good. Money talks but to what cost? Burnout and only looking at what you can consume rather than how you can live.
Your average is a bit high. According to this it is about € 39,000. Still means their nurse salary is piss poor, though.

Looks like you have taken your numbers from salaryexplorer.com who are very prone to inflate their numbers. The same site claim the Swiss average is CHF 124,000 which is about 50% above the real number.
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Old 22.12.2020, 15:29
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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I remember reading somewhere that ~25% of doctors in France where not born in France. So, they invited them from somewhere else offering some Euros, why are they upset we offer the doctors some additional CHF for their efforts and skills?

That's for medical workers. For the rest, don't we have rising unemployment and RHT/kurzarbeit in CH? Why invite restaurant Chefs when restaurants will be closed for weeks? Save the exceptions in low infection rate cantons.
This was only in 2012, I bet there's more of them now.
https://healthcare-in-europe.com/en/...-increase.html


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In 2012, almost 25% of newly registered doctors at the Ordre des Médecins, had a degree gained in a foreign country (11.4% in Europe, 12.7% outside it).One third of practitioners holding a foreign degree gained it in Maghreb countries, the most prevalent is Algeria (22% of the total). Second comes Romania (17.7%) and Belgium (8.9%). Morocco, Syria, Tunisia, Germany, Italy and Spain follow.

One reason to choose settlement in France is often potentially better work environment and remuneration. In Hungary, for example, an intern’s salary is one fourth of his French counterpart. ‘Almost all doctors from outside EU countries arrived here to finish their studies in their speciality and they want to stay in France where they find a better environment for their trade,’ explains Renaud Gansey, a Bénin native, working as a nephrologist at the CHU (University Hospital) in Nantes. ‘Only a small number stay because of political problems in their countries.’

Official data do not take into account a ‘significant number’ of foreign doctors working in hospitals with a status of ‘associate’ and therefore are not registered by the CNOM, Michel Legmann stresses.

The CNOM ‘is not in a position to identify them clearly’, and is ‘a little problematic because these practitioners are hired illegally to fill vacant positions, often under the pressure of local politicians who want to maintain local hospitals in activity,’ he explains. ‘This is a problem because their degrees are not assessed and their salaries are less than those of French doctors.’
Really, France and Western Europe in general should shut the f* up.
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Old 22.12.2020, 15:42
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

Telling people to shut up is not good for business

I'd better say that if France relies on freelancers for medical care, France should ensure freelancers stay happy or see them leave to work for whoever pays better.

This should be a lesson for CH government, medical workers are also not that happy around here.
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Old 22.12.2020, 15:50
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Re: Ah for pesky frontaliers ...

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Telling people to shut up is not good for business

I'd better say that if France relies on freelancers for medical care, France should ensure freelancers stay happy or see them leave to work for whoever pays better.

This should be a lesson for CH government, medical workers are also not that happy around here.
I don't know if that's their biggest problem. I think staff coming from non-EU states usually has more difficulties to find a stable position in a hospital etc.
As far as I know they severely lack medical staff in rural areas because medics are isolated and look to advance their career at one point or another. But that's a common problem almost everywhere in the EU.
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