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Old 10.01.2021, 14:41
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

Start with this form to get in the jobs database if you don't plan to move within the next 2 months https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/eda/en/...Schweiz_EN.pdf
Read all info in this page https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/i...l-welfare.html
Seems you can even get interest-free loan to pay for your return or even direct help (latter one probably not if you also have american citizenship).
If you come here without a job you can also get social welfare if you have problems getting started, you will probably be able to pay it back after you find a job so no shame in that.
You may have to do (maybe verify this) or want to do military service or civil alternatives, that could be great to learn the language on the ground and get kick started in local society, the money is also OK.
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  #22  
Old 10.01.2021, 23:25
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hello thank you for the welcome and advice! I am registered with the Canton of Zurich

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Send applications to hotels for jobs as a massage therapist. Start looking in big tourist resorts like Verbier, St Moritz, Zermatt etc. Maybe too late for this winter and with Covid jobs are scarce, but you should find a massage job for next winter with a Swiss passport (make that clear on applications). You need a job lined up as Switzerland is expensive. Also work on your French & German.

thank you for this advice!

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You might consider getting involved in the Organization Of Swiss Abroad, they could be a good resource for information as you plan your move.

As an example, their website discusses return migration:

https://www.swisscommunity.org/en/em...turn-migration

Thank you for this information! That link is very useful

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Not to deter you... but keep in mind Switzerland is very expensive compared to Kansas City. I moved here from somewhere with similar costs as KC and still amazed 6 years later how little I walk out of the grocery store with, after spending 100 or more.

Wouldn't attempt to move here with less than say 15-20k in savings if you have to fully support yourself.

Plane ticket, temporary accommodation until you rent a place, 1st-month rent, and security depostit. That's probably 5k or more easily right there. Possible utility service deposits.

German classes 500-1000 a month, food 300-600 month, mandatory health insurance 200-300 month, mobile phone 75-100 month, etc.

It's difficult for many foreigners to find employment right after arrival, especially during this time period. So having a cushion of savings is probably necessary.

I am not trying to deter you but the reality is, it simply costs a lot to move to Switzerland and make a go of it. The German language is super important to your job possibilities if you are moving to a German region of CH, it can make all the difference even if you have a Bachelor's or Master's degree. Most jobs look for A2 language level as a minimum and B1 or B2 is what I see more frequently requested.

With Biden becoming elected in a matter of days and Trump on the way out, it likely to get better in the United States.

Thank you for the advice! I am determined to continue my German studies, and the examples of expenses you provided helps me work out a budget plan. I am hopeful for Biden's leadership but would still prefer to see myself in another country in the near future.

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If the OP was to get a massage job (before coming) with a large hotel in a large resort, they might be able to find an employer that provides a room or studio. That brings the costs down significantly when first arriving.

this is a very good idea! thank you for recommending, now I know where to direct my interest once I finish massage school in the spring.

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First question is did your father register your birth with the Swiss embassy/consulate in America? Because ...

"Art. 7 Loss by being born abroad

1 A child born abroad to a Swiss parent who is a citizen of another country forfeits Swiss citizenship on reaching the age of 25, unless his or her birth has been notified to a Swiss authority abroad or in Switzerland or he or she has declared in writing that he or she wishes to remain a Swiss citizen."

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...990/index.html

If you weren't registered or haven't declared you wish to retain your Swiss citizenship at the Swiss embassy/consulate then you will no longer have Swiss nationality since you also have American/Italian.

That said you could still move here with your Italian nationality, but for that you're going to need a job lined up as you would get no assistance from the Swiss government.

Second, where is your mother in all this? Are you really saying you have no money/food in your place and haven't asked her for help? You could afford to pay for the massage therapy training, but can't afford food?

thank you for the information! I was registered with the embassy in Switzerland itself, I own all current valid Swiss identification (ID, passport). As for my mother, she lives in Kansas City as well, as she is my American parent. She helps me as much as she can, but things are tough for all of us here so it's still not much. I actually have temporarily left my massage training school because I can no longer afford them, and they are allowing me to pick up where I left off whenever I can afford to come back. I know it seems far-fetched, but that truly is the situation for me here in America (I don't know if you live here or in CH so it may be hard to understand). I have about $35 USD to my name at the moment, last night a friend sent me $20 for food, and that is how I will be getting by until my next paycheck.

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Yes, Covid is another problem. Atm no US citizens are being let in, though you might be able to do it with your Swiss one, but only if you have a Swiss passport.

I do thankfully own a valid Swiss passport

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Moving countries to escape Covid would:

a) be per se ludicrous for a 24 year old; and

b) taken in the round Switzerland is at least as dangerous as the US (slower vaccination, probably closer to mutant wave, nearly as many deaths anyway).

Escaping Trump is also very silly especially given the fact he has 10 days in office left.

The OP seems to be a bit immature and not really approaching a serious international move without any substantive plans. With a low skill level and no dialect finding a job would be tough at the minute given that this pandemic has hit low skilled workers hard.

Switzerland is not a place to be poor and unskilled. I'd stay in Kansas City.

sorry to hear you feel that way about my decision. I have a lot of planning done that I did not include in the article because I wanted to keep it short and to the point. Also many Americans do not have much faith in President-Elect Biden as well, and even if things were to get better I would like to still carry on with a transition to CH when the time is right. I have plenty of time to pick up experience and I am not a complete stranger to German having taking it for years in school, but I agree it would be difficult.

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Kansas City is definitely not a deep republican area. Jackson County which covers the bulk of the city is c. 60-40 dem-republican in an even year. Some of the suburbs are in marginally republican counties - but nothing deep red.

Maybe it would be a good move for him if he can sit and breathe and make a decent plan.

you are correct, Kansas city is not a terribly deep republican area but the state of Missouri as a whole still voted red. And our state representative who is republic has made a fool of himself by being one of the few to public encourage and defend the invasion of the capitol hill building.

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Maybe you can try to mend your relation with your father or family on his side, you'd really need their help in the first phase.....unless you have a fat savings account* and can use it till you get a job. But with your qualifications and Covid etc - not very easy imo.
*which apparently you don't.

I agree with this. Although it is not my first priority to mend things with him, I do have cousins I believe are willing to house me until I make enough for my own place. I just don't want my father to know I'm in CH, as I wish to live my own life without him. It may seem harsh to say as I know family is very important to many people, but he and I had a falling out that made me upset enough to not speak to him again the last time I visited. I believe I have only seen him about 8 or 9 times in my life that I can remember.

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Bear in mind, with a Swiss passport you are not limited to living and working in Switzerland, you have the whole EU available including English speaking Ireland and Malta. Start applying for massage jobs and see what happens.

this is something I never thought of before! thank you for mentioning, that makes me feel better.

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first get food before jumping ahead

yes, that is a work in progress. food first.

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OP

As you understand German, you may want to read this:

https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/eda/de/...hweizer_DE.pdf

And in your case particularly this: https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/de/home...zialhilfe.html

This explains that you may be able to get assistance from the social security department of the municipality you choose to settle in until you sort yourself out.

thank you for this incredibly helpful information!

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Start with this form to get in the jobs database if you don't plan to move within the next 2 months https://www.eda.admin.ch/dam/eda/en/...Schweiz_EN.pdf
Read all info in this page https://www.eda.admin.ch/countries/i...l-welfare.html
Seems you can even get interest-free loan to pay for your return or even direct help (latter one probably not if you also have american citizenship).
If you come here without a job you can also get social welfare if you have problems getting started, you will probably be able to pay it back after you find a job so no shame in that.
You may have to do (maybe verify this) or want to do military service or civil alternatives, that could be great to learn the language on the ground and get kick started in local society, the money is also OK.

Thank you so much for this information! this helps me assemble a plan to make a transition.

Last edited by roegner; 11.01.2021 at 09:45. Reason: Merging consecutive posts, pls use multi quote button
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  #23  
Old 11.01.2021, 01:00
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

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I am a 24 year old dual citizen of america and switzerland. ... I have been looking into saving up enough money to move to CH. I have visited a handful of times to visit my father, but I have never lived there. And I am no longer on speaking terms with my father, so if I were to make the transition I would be supporting myself entirely.
Welcome to the forum, and well done for considering alternative options, and for starting to do your reasearch.

Here's a thread started by Falafel, a Swiss citizen living in South Africa, making enquiries about how to return. Even though he/she has a family, so it's a slightly different situation, I can recommend working your way through that thread, which contains many other links, some to threads by people who have achieved (or not) what you're looking into. https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...nemployed.html

One of the posts in that thread is about suggested monthly budgets, and about financial support from the Swiss government, for the destitute: https://www.englishforum.ch/3171484-post6.html

Last edited by doropfiz; 11.01.2021 at 20:40.
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  #24  
Old 11.01.2021, 01:51
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

Here's etefan02's thread, started when he was 25 and considering moving to Switzerland. It contains quite a bit of discussion about various attitudes to moving and integrating. https://www.englishforum.ch/other-ge...moving-ch.html

Here's the super go-to thread started by Kiwi2Swiss, about finding work without qualifications. Kiwi2Swiss is Swiss, lived in NZ for many years, and she and her NZ husband came to live here for a while, and they were particularly looking for unqualified work, to start with, because he did not speak German. I know you do speak some German; even so, you might need to be open for any kind of work that you can find. https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...fications.html
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Old 11.01.2021, 09:24
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Welcome to the forum, and well done for considering alternative options, and for starting to do your reasearch.

Here's a thread started by Falafel, a Swiss citizen living abroad, making enquiries about how to return. Even though he/she has a family, so it's a slightly different situation, I can recommend working your way through that thread, which contains many other links, some to threads by people who have achieved (or not) what you're looking into. https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...nemployed.html

One of the posts in that thread is about suggested monthly budgets, and about financial support from the Swiss government, for the destitute: https://www.englishforum.ch/3171484-post6.html

wow, thank you for this!!!

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Here's etefan02's thread, started when he was 25 and considering moving to Switzerland. It contains quite a bit of discussion about various attitudes to moving and integrating. https://www.englishforum.ch/other-ge...moving-ch.html

Here's the super go-to thread started by Kiwi2Swiss, about finding work without qualifications. Kiwi2Swiss is Swiss, lived in NZ for many years, and she and her NZ husband came to live here for a while, and they were particularly looking for unqualified work, to start with, because he did not speak German. I know you do speak some German; even so, you might need to be open for any kind of work that you can find. https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...fications.html

i really appreciate you searching the forum to find these, you have been a great help thank you.

Last edited by roegner; 11.01.2021 at 09:42. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 11.01.2021, 11:38
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

There are many Americans who would do just about anything to get away to a country like Switzerland... I don't blame OP one bit, especially since he has the citizenship to come here.

OP, while things are much better here, it will be very difficult to move without any family or friends who can support you emotionally and financially. Just keep this in mind...I believe it is still worth it and the sooner you can get here the better, but please make a plan. Perhaps look into an apprenticeship like Tom suggested and learn the language. Also be aware that you won't be able to find a place to live without a job and/or significant savings. Your massage therapy credentials most likely won't qualify here.

With enough grit and determination, you can make it - moving here from the US is the best decision my husband and I ever made (he is Swiss-American). But we moved here with financial support, languages, a job and local friends/family.
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Old 11.01.2021, 16:26
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

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Maybe a move to Switzerland would be good for the OP’s maturity. Maybe moving abroad and expanding ones horizons should be encouraged given the situation with some Americans right now. Maybe “stay in your deep Republican area” is not the right message!
or he could go to one of the dozens of democrat states? Switzerland is not an easy place to emigrate to. Most immigrants to Switzerland fulfill at least 2 of the criteria

-wealth
-established career
-language skills
-come from an area of proximity to Switzerland

why not try a trial emigration to say Canada
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  #28  
Old 11.01.2021, 16:56
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

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or he could go to one of the dozens of democrat states? Switzerland is not an easy place to emigrate to.

why not try a trial emigration to say Canada
Politics is not the only reason to leave the US ... inequality for the working class is most likely a major driver as well. Also, Democrat states are generally much more expensive to live in.

Why would OP go to Canada? Americans can't claim asylum there...not yet at least.
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Old 11.01.2021, 18:12
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

Every single time they have an election in the US, we get people here who say "I'm done, I want to leave the US.".


I guess, the more research they do, the more sobering it becomes.


That said, a lot of the low-paid jobs currently just don't exist here either (restaurants, bars closed, spas, too, I think).


So, it really is a bad time to come.


People are still ordering stuff online like there's no tomorrow and AFAIK, there are still job-openings in fulfillment and logistics....
(E.g. delivering stuff).
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Old 11.01.2021, 19:34
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

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There are many Americans who would do just about anything to get away to a country like Switzerland... I don't blame OP one bit, especially since he has the citizenship to come here.

OP, while things are much better here, it will be very difficult to move without any family or friends who can support you emotionally and financially. Just keep this in mind...I believe it is still worth it and the sooner you can get here the better, but please make a plan. Perhaps look into an apprenticeship like Tom suggested and learn the language. Also be aware that you won't be able to find a place to live without a job and/or significant savings. Your massage therapy credentials most likely won't qualify here.

With enough grit and determination, you can make it - moving here from the US is the best decision my husband and I ever made (he is Swiss-American). But we moved here with financial support, languages, a job and local friends/family.

thank you for the words of encouragement! A plan is set in motion and I am currently fundraising for the transition
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Old 11.01.2021, 20:08
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

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Every single time they have an election in the US, we get people here who say "I'm done, I want to leave the US."
Except most of the time, they are not Swiss citizens who can come here. Won't be easy for OP, but neither will living on a low wage in the US. Worse comes to worse, you might be able to qualify for social assistance to get you on your feet when you arrive. But keep in mind that if you are healthy, you won't be able to stay on it for long and it won't get you very far...but it is something.
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Old 11.01.2021, 20:51
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

I was just going to ask, what if the OP came here with nothing? Hello Switzerland, here I am! Does he have to live on the street or what? What help would he get and how long would it last? Would that help ever end? There seems to be quite a few professional unemployed in Switzerland, at least in Basel.


My US friends were all like "if Trump gets in I'm moving to Canada/etc". None of them did it, but they all have a future.
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Old 11.01.2021, 21:11
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

good point. what does happen if you are swiss and don't work? there aren't any homeless people. I have heard of tenants of friends who basically do nothing, get some kind of support (not sure from where - comune/canton?) but never miss the rent. i guess with no kids, you get pushed into some sort of specialized vocational training which ends up netting you a 70k / year+ job? does anyone know? you should be ahead of anyone with a non swiss passport for a job.
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Old 11.01.2021, 21:18
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

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I was just going to ask, what if the OP came here with nothing? Hello Switzerland, here I am! Does he have to live on the street or what? What help would he get and how long would it last? Would that help ever end?
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good point. what does happen if you are swiss and don't work? there aren't any homeless people. I have heard of tenants of friends who basically do nothing, get some kind of support (not sure from where - comune/canton?) but never miss the rent. i guess with no kids, you get pushed into some sort of specialized vocational training which ends up netting you a 70k / year+ job? does anyone know? you should be ahead of anyone with a non swiss passport for a job.
There is social assistance https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/poverty...works/45575954
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Old 11.01.2021, 21:52
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

thanks. looks pretty rough but you won't starve. i like the statement that it ensures 'dignity'. wonder what happens if you own your home? i guess they force you to sell it but that could take years. what happens in the interim?
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Old 11.01.2021, 21:55
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

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good point. what does happen if you are swiss and don't work? there aren't any homeless people. I have heard of tenants of friends who basically do nothing, get some kind of support (not sure from where - comune/canton?) but never miss the rent. i guess with no kids, you get pushed into some sort of specialized vocational training which ends up netting you a 70k / year+ job? does anyone know? you should be ahead of anyone with a non swiss passport for a job.
70k is a good salary...not quite normal EF money, but many working professionals don't make quite that...don't get OP's expectations too high.
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Old 11.01.2021, 21:59
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

yep, it says the median salary is 78 but you only get 27 from social assistance as a single person. that would be pretty rough in switzerland - big incentive to get employment!
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Old 11.01.2021, 22:04
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

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thanks. looks pretty rough but you won't starve. i like the statement that it ensures 'dignity'. wonder what happens if you own your home? i guess they force you to sell it but that could take years. what happens in the interim?
It seems they don't immediately force you to sell - since most likely the mortgage interest is cheaper than rent would be, and selling is not a short term solution.

More details: https://richtlinien.skos.ch/index.php/?id=403

Since you are supposed to pay back the money, short term I guess they don't worry about you having equity in the property - they can always get at it later!
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Old 11.01.2021, 23:01
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Re: Escaping the US to CH

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First question is did your father register your birth with the Swiss embassy/consulate in America? Because ...

"Art. 7 Loss by being born abroad

1 A child born abroad to a Swiss parent who is a citizen of another country forfeits Swiss citizenship on reaching the age of 25, unless his or her birth has been notified to a Swiss authority abroad or in Switzerland or he or she has declared in writing that he or she wishes to remain a Swiss citizen."

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...990/index.html

If you weren't registered or haven't declared you wish to retain your Swiss citizenship at the Swiss embassy/consulate then you will no longer have Swiss nationality since you also have American/Italian.

That said you could still move here with your Italian nationality, but for that you're going to need a job lined up as you would get no assistance from the Swiss government.

Second, where is your mother in all this? Are you really saying you have no money/food in your place and haven't asked her for help? You could afford to pay for the massage therapy training, but can't afford food?
OP didn't mention having Italian citizenship. There are non-Italians who have the name Fabio...
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Old 11.01.2021, 23:02
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I was just going to ask, what if the OP came here with nothing? Hello Switzerland, here I am! Does he have to live on the street or what? What help would he get and how long would it last? Would that help ever end? There seems to be quite a few professional unemployed in Switzerland, at least in Basel.


My US friends were all like "if Trump gets in I'm moving to Canada/etc". None of them did it, but they all have a future.

These are questions I wondered myself, but through lots of research and help from this forum I have found that there is help out there for me, albeit limited. This is why I am choosing to fund-raise for the transition so I do not come over with nothing. Although it was common long ago for many to come to a new world with nothing but a dollar and a dream, I understand completely that is not the case nowadays.

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good point. what does happen if you are swiss and don't work? there aren't any homeless people. I have heard of tenants of friends who basically do nothing, get some kind of support (not sure from where - comune/canton?) but never miss the rent. i guess with no kids, you get pushed into some sort of specialized vocational training which ends up netting you a 70k / year+ job? does anyone know? you should be ahead of anyone with a non swiss passport for a job.

even if that is the case, a 70K a year salary is still more than double what I currently make.

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OP didn't mention having Italian citizenship. There are non-Italians who have the name Fabio...

My father is Italian by blood and adopted Swiss. He is an Italian and Swiss citizen, I am not registered with the Italian consulate and I don't know if I can declare that citizenship after all this time.

Last edited by roegner; 12.01.2021 at 09:10. Reason: Merging consecutive posts, pls use multiquote button
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