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  #241  
Old 24.03.2021, 16:29
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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I think it's meant to be a statement about the private sector providing the vaccines rather than the state. It's not really the time or place but it's hardly a big deal.
Well here is the context as it appears now- so watch this space

''Italian and French press reporting that Astra Zeneca ‘hid’ 29 million doses of vaccine whilst advising the EU commission it could not fulfil their contractual order. Found by inspectors near Rome - some suggestions they were going to be sent to the U.K. Questions being asked again elsewhere about whether the U.K. may have gazumped Europe by offering AZ more money for vaccines already paid for by Europe? Did AZ allow that? Is this why Johnson did his Gordon Gecko speech yesterday, knowing this story would break? That is all conjecture and speculation at the moment, but the vaccines are verified as there.
If this is true it’s very serious.''

I'd say if this is confirmed, it will indeed be 'a big deal'.
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  #242  
Old 24.03.2021, 16:38
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Well here is the context as it appears now- so watch this space

''Italian and French press reporting that Astra Zeneca hid 29 million doses of vaccine whilst advising the EU commission it could not fulfil their contractual order. Found by inspectors near Rome - some suggestions they were going to be sent to the U.K. Questions being asked again elsewhere about whether the U.K. may have gazumped Europe by offering AZ more money for vaccines already paid for by Europe? Did AZ allow that? Is this why Johnson did his Gordon Gecko speech yesterday, knowing this story would break? That is all conjecture and speculation at the moment, but the vaccines are verified as there.
If this is true its very serious.''

I'd say if this is confirmed, it will indeed be 'a big deal'.
Italian and French press spreading misinformation and smearing AZ yet again. Its been confirmed by AZ that 16 million doses are for the EU vaccination programme, 13 million are for Covax (developing countries)
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  #243  
Old 24.03.2021, 17:51
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Well here is the context as it appears now- so watch this space

''Italian and French press reporting that Astra Zeneca hid 29 million doses of vaccine whilst advising the EU commission it could not fulfil their contractual order. Found by inspectors near Rome - some suggestions they were going to be sent to the U.K. Questions being asked again elsewhere about whether the U.K. may have gazumped Europe by offering AZ more money for vaccines already paid for by Europe? Did AZ allow that? Is this why Johnson did his Gordon Gecko speech yesterday, knowing this story would break? That is all conjecture and speculation at the moment, but the vaccines are verified as there.
If this is true its very serious.''

I'd say if this is confirmed, it will indeed be 'a big deal'.
https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/stat...21504492019715

You really are getting worse and worse. Maybe another break from the forum would be a good idea.
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  #244  
Old 24.03.2021, 19:04
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Italian and French press spreading misinformation and smearing AZ yet again. Its been confirmed by AZ that 16 million doses are for the EU vaccination programme, 13 million are for Covax (developing countries)
Only after they asked AZ about this lot of vaccines that, curiously, AZ had never reported. If anyone has any doubts yet as to the best efforts of this company...
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  #245  
Old 24.03.2021, 19:20
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Well here is the context as it appears now- so watch this space

''Italian and French press reporting that Astra Zeneca hid 29 million doses of vaccine whilst advising the EU commission it could not fulfil their contractual order. Found by inspectors near Rome - some suggestions they were going to be sent to the U.K. Questions being asked again elsewhere about whether the U.K. may have gazumped Europe by offering AZ more money for vaccines already paid for by Europe? Did AZ allow that? Is this why Johnson did his Gordon Gecko speech yesterday, knowing this story would break? That is all conjecture and speculation at the moment, but the vaccines are verified as there.
If this is true its very serious.''

I'd say if this is confirmed, it will indeed be 'a big deal'.
The Italian government said "the batches that were inspected were all aimed for Belgium". Coronavirus: EU plan for tougher controls on vaccine exports https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56509521
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  #246  
Old 24.03.2021, 21:08
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Fact is, no-one knows. Are we supposed to believe representiatives from AZ without question?

Would it not be helpful if AZ published contracts, or at least production and delivery schedules- in the current cirmcumstances? What have they got to lose - unless they want to play one against another, with prices etc.

Supply chains are so complicated, involving so many countries and even Continents. In the meantime, AZ still has not applied for EU approval for Dutch production site- where the 29 mio have been produced, so they could not be delivered to EU contractually. La Stampa, the Turin newspaper, said the 29 mio were definitely for the UK - but AZ denied this.

Enquiry will have to elucidate vaccine contracts, procurement, distribution, etc. We cannot just take as read what AZ representatives feed the Press.

Last edited by JackieH; 24.03.2021 at 21:20.
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  #247  
Old 24.03.2021, 21:17
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Fact is, no-one knows. Are we supposed to believe representiatives from AZ without question?

Would it not be helpful if AZ published contracts, or at least production and delivery schedules- in the current cirmcumstances? What have they got to lose - unless they want to play one against another, with prices etc.

Supply chains are so complicated, involving so many countries and even Continents. In the meantime, AZ still has not applied for EU approval for Dutch production site- where the 29 mio have been produced, so they could not be delivered to EU contractually.

Enquiry will have to elucidate vaccine contracts, procurement, distribution, etc. We cannot just take as read what AZ representatives feed the Press.
Generally you should ask the company themselves, they don't have to answer.

Why should AZ publish anything commercial sensitive to be 'helpful'

Why does the EU even care? they have trashed the vaccine enough, amazed they even want what they ordered, France have claimed it does not work on old people & young people die of blood clots. 1000 Maltese did not turn up on Saturday as they thought they were getting AZ, thats 20% of daily vaccinations.
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  #248  
Old 24.03.2021, 21:55
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Would it not be helpful if AZ published contracts, or at least production and delivery schedules- in the current cirmcumstances? What have they got to lose - unless they want to play one against another, with prices etc.
Exactly, who's got what to lose by publishing the contract details?

The EU did publish the contracts, here's the first one with AZ, but interestingly enough certain parts got blackened out.

One group is the price calculations, makes sense as AZ will want to keep production and other details private. The other blackened part is the number of doses and when they're due. I see no reason for AZ to get these blocked, ergo it must be EU's doing.

Certainly, it can't have anything to do with Paragraph 5.1 of the contract (screenie below, red underscore by me), can it, the part where the EU demands that the vaccine delivered to them must have been produced within the EU. As if any vaccinated person cared about such nonsense.

Likewise, Macron has been forcing Sanofi to produce for France, and probably made that part of the Comission's task, even though Sanofi were at least a year behind the top dogs last June already. See the FT for instance (no paywall for this article I believe, like for all Covid articles). Here's Reuters on the same.

I'm definitely not a fan of BoJo, but kudos where kudos' due. That fortunate barsteward clearly deserves them for how he has the UK handle the vaccinations.

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  #249  
Old 24.03.2021, 22:21
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Fact is, no-one knows. Are we supposed to believe representiatives from AZ without question?

Would it not be helpful if AZ published contracts, or at least production and delivery schedules- in the current cirmcumstances? What have they got to lose - unless they want to play one against another, with prices etc.

Supply chains are so complicated, involving so many countries and even Continents. In the meantime, AZ still has not applied for EU approval for Dutch production site- where the 29 mio have been produced, so they could not be delivered to EU contractually. La Stampa, the Turin newspaper, said the 29 mio were definitely for the UK - but AZ denied this.

Enquiry will have to elucidate vaccine contracts, procurement, distribution, etc. We cannot just take as read what AZ representatives feed the Press.
Just immediately apparent that AZ have been set up as a scapegoat. They've been careful enough to avoid directly blaming the UK and starting a fight as the UK factories could ultimately be a significant source of vaccine.
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  #250  
Old 25.03.2021, 06:50
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Just immediately apparent that AZ have been set up as a scapegoat. They've been careful enough to avoid directly blaming the UK and starting a fight as the UK factories could ultimately be a significant source of vaccine.
I agree its the perfect smoke and mirrors tactic to try and hide the fact that most of the countries who are doing it are way behind on their vaccination programmes.

Meanwhile folks in the UK get their AZ by the million almost every day and sit there chuckling as their infection numbers keep dropping.

Last edited by Spaceghost; 25.03.2021 at 07:02.
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  #251  
Old 25.03.2021, 07:49
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Generally you should ask the company themselves, they don't have to answer.

Why should AZ publish anything commercial sensitive to be 'helpful'

Why does the EU even care? they have trashed the vaccine enough, amazed they even want what they ordered, France have claimed it does not work on old people & young people die of blood clots. 1000 Maltese did not turn up on Saturday as they thought they were getting AZ, thats 20% of daily vaccinations.
I think AZ is still administered in CZ. They gratefully picked up doses nobody wanted, I think from France. But the info on AZ have somehow disappeared from local media a few weeks back.
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  #252  
Old 25.03.2021, 14:13
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

It will all come out in the end- but I think it is important to keep an open mind and look at the reality of contracts out there. Normally, private companies do not have to publish contractual agreements- but when it comes to life and death in a pandemic- I do ask whether that makes sense.

''The secrets to Israels success seem to be having a small population and having made a special deal with Pfizer that included the sharing of information on the impact of large-scale vaccination.

The details of the vaccine contracts signed by each nation are a commercial secret. However, some of the price details have been revealed. The EU pays less for the AstraZeneca vaccine than the UK and the US and it pays significantly less for the Pfizer vaccine than either the US or Israel. This has raised the suspicion that some manufacturers may favour the highest bidder.

A key component in the vaccine success of the UK and the US has been a restriction in the export of domestically produced vaccines. At the time of the dispute between Astra Zeneca and the EU, it emerged that AstraZeneca was contractually obliged to supply the whole of the UK production just to the UK''.
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  #253  
Old 25.03.2021, 14:16
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

The BMJ (British Medical Journal) has published info about different prices paid by different countries/EU.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n281
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  #254  
Old 25.03.2021, 14:22
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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The BMJ (British Medical Journal) has published info about different prices paid by different countries/EU.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n281
Some countries help fund development - got a lower price.
Some countries wanted it first - paid a higher price.

Countries with a higher income per capita paid more than those with a lower income.

Seems quite reasonable to me.

Seriously, if you are so against capitalism and so into communism then Switzerland is really one of the last places on earth where you should be living...
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  #255  
Old 25.03.2021, 14:25
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Fact is, no-one knows. Are we supposed to believe representiatives from AZ without question?

Would it not be helpful if AZ published contracts, or at least production and delivery schedules- in the current cirmcumstances? What have they got to lose - unless they want to play one against another, with prices etc.

Supply chains are so complicated, involving so many countries and even Continents. In the meantime, AZ still has not applied for EU approval for Dutch production site- where the 29 mio have been produced, so they could not be delivered to EU contractually. La Stampa, the Turin newspaper, said the 29 mio were definitely for the UK - but AZ denied this.

Enquiry will have to elucidate vaccine contracts, procurement, distribution, etc. We cannot just take as read what AZ representatives feed the Press.
BBC medical editor Fergus Walsh was on the Today Programme and said that senior sources within AZ had told him that this will probably be the last time the company foregoes the profits to sell a drug at cost price thanks to the baseless criticism and smear campaign by the EU and European media. The reputational damage just hasn't been worth it.
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  #256  
Old 25.03.2021, 14:35
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

The question being asked now- now that we know the EU got their contract before the UK- albeit by one day, and at a much lower price- did AZ favour contracts with those who paid more. Asking the question does not make me a communist or vastly anti-capitalism. But yes, I will very happily admit to being adverse to people's lives being played around with- for greed - in a pandemic.

It is truly fair enough to ask, and to want answers.
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  #257  
Old 25.03.2021, 14:36
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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The details of the vaccine contracts signed by each nation are a commercial secret. However, some of the price details have been revealed. The EU pays less for the AstraZeneca vaccine than the UK and the US and it pays significantly less for the Pfizer vaccine than either the US or Israel. This has raised the suspicion that some manufacturers may favour the highest bidder.
Comments on the first AZ-EU contract say that the EU pays something like 1.20 per dose, and the participating countries (perhaps with focus on the optional 100 million doses) around 1.80.
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A key component in the vaccine success of the UK and the US has been a restriction in the export of domestically produced vaccines.
The UK does have controls in place to remove wholesale dealers and other, essentially useless from a medical POV, middlemen who do nothing but increase the final price.

But that's not the same as export restrictions.
Care to prove your claim that the UK has covid export restrictions in place?
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  #258  
Old 25.03.2021, 14:39
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Is the Head of Who a Communist?

WHOs secretary general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, commented, I believe the world faces a catastrophic moral failure in equal access to the tools to combat the pandemic. This research shows a potentially catastrophic economic failure.
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  #259  
Old 25.03.2021, 14:51
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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The question being asked now- now that we know the EU got their contract before the UK- albeit by one day, and at a much lower price- did AZ favour contracts with those who paid more. Asking the question does not make me a communist or vastly anti-capitalism. But yes, I will very happily admit to being adverse to people's lives being played around with- for greed - in a pandemic.

It is truly fair enough to ask, and to want answers.
If the EU have a case, then they should take AZ to court. If they don't then they should shut up, it's as simple as that.

From what I've seen, the EU's interpretation of the contract they have with AZ is whimsical at best. If they're confident then they can test this in court without all the unnecessary damage that they're causing.
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Old 25.03.2021, 14:56
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Is the Head of Who a Communist?

WHOs secretary general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, commented, I believe the world faces a catastrophic moral failure in equal access to the tools to combat the pandemic. This research shows a potentially catastrophic economic failure.
Charity starts at home as the saying goes.
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