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  #301  
Old 27.03.2021, 12:08
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Not possible I am afraid, as I was born a very long time before the EU. And I was born and raised in Switzerland.

Became British in 73.
So became European at the same year as me Just 1 of us lives in the EU now
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  #302  
Old 27.03.2021, 16:43
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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nope, wherever have I stated this?
I just wanted to have that out of the way. Because the consequence is that you accept at least those articles you quote as the gospel truth. Otherwise please provide the stuff they're based on or what you checked them against, and how that supercedes the actual contract.
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All that said, it's about time that the EU got its act together and finally calls out AZ for putting profit before contractual agreements. The contracts are almost identical, so the ethical choice is to supply UK and EU in equal percentages.... not the one that makes more profit first... I for one entirely support the actions taken recently by the various EU states to control supply a bit more...
If the contracts were equal, the claim that profit is driving AZ's decisions makes no sense.

Simply because that also means equal profit, if any at all.
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  #303  
Old 27.03.2021, 16:52
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

The contracts were almost the same- but the price different. So if AZ chose to supply those who agreed to pay more- that would mean more profit, no?

From the BMJ (British Medical Journal) : ''That principle has also been applied to the biggest players. The EU financially supported the development of the BioNTech and Pfizer vaccine and has obtained a lower price per dose ($14.70 than the US ($19.50). The Moderna vaccine’s development was subsidised by the US government, and it will cost the US about $15 a dose, while the EU is paying $18.

The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is much cheaper, although neither the UK nor the US can match the EU’s $2.15 deal: they are expecting to pay about $3 and $4, respectively, per dose.''
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  #304  
Old 27.03.2021, 16:58
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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The contracts were almost the same- but the price different. So if AZ chose to supply those who agreed to pay more- that would mean more profit, no?
No, UK pays the actual cost of production, which is currently running above the actual cost due to delays. If AZ deliver today in full to the EU it will be at a loss to AZ. Ultimately it will further increase the cost the UK has to pay. They agreed open pricing to get first refusal. EU chose to buy on price, so got a better deal if they were interested in cost rather than date of delivery.

I am amazed that AZ has not started Slander actions against several EU governments for loss of reputation at 500 million a pop.
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  #305  
Old 27.03.2021, 17:06
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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The contracts were almost the same- but the price different. So if AZ chose to supply those who agreed to pay more- that would mean more profit, no?
You do know that forum rules require linking the source. So what's yours?

And no, it doesn't mean more profit, or any at all. It looks like production within the EU had to be built first. See Reuters last year for example. Production was being ramped up but the EU dragged their feet, and are now trying to blame AZ for their own mistakes. Because UvdL can never be at fault.

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“IRBM [an Italian biotech company that partners with AZ] aims to distribute a first tranche of 2-3 million doses, already produced, as soon as there will be validation by the regulatory authorities, whether in December or January,” the group’s managing director Matteo Liguori told Reuters.

Liguori added that IRBM has been ready to go for some time, having stocked up in advance on required functional material, such as vials and reagents, and had increased its equipment and instruments in order to triple their production capacity.
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  #306  
Old 27.03.2021, 17:08
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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You do know that forum rules require linking the source. So what's yours?

I have- thanks. From the BMJ.

And NO, I am not taking the pov of the EU as 'Gospel'- just saying that what happened is viewed very differently depending whether UK, EU or beyond- and that one has to keep an open mind and not a 'nationalistic one'.

''In the end, the outcome of the blood clot scare was exactly as would be expected. The European Medicines Agency quickly reviewed the data, assessed the risk-benefit profile of the vaccine (with an almost inevitable conclusion) and committed to updating the product literature in relation to a possible causal link with the rare clotting incidents and to initiate further research. That some countries opted to pause the use of the AZ vaccine whilst the blood clot cases were quickly investigated was entirely understandable within the circumstances that they face.

The best strategy to address vaccine supply issues and issues of vaccine confidence is not mutual denigration but empathetic diplomacy. The UK is already building post-Brexit bridges with the US Biden administration with climate change as a binding cause. It must quickly find a similar common cause with its continental neighbours. Vaccination rhetoric is making this a tough challenge. Efforts on all sides to close the empathy gap are of vital importance.''

From: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2021/...re-of-empathy/

Last edited by JackieH; 27.03.2021 at 17:45.
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  #307  
Old 27.03.2021, 19:38
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Raise your hands if you were born EU citizens, Britons fortunately don't count. Ah, I've been living in Switzerland for a decade, but I'm one of them. I don't think Britons can understand the support that the EU has from its citizens, especially on this issue. This is like a chicken hen, where you just keep repeating your own positions that get self-confirmed due to the lack of external outputs in the conversation. Many people and the press are in fact clamouring for even harsher measures against non EU states. I don't care about Brexit, but as Britain is no longer a member state I don't care about that country any more, that's a general feeling.

With this being said I still don't understand what this thread is doing in 'Switzerland's daily life', from what I understand some participants don't even live in Switzerland.
What’s your opinion on the effectiveness of the AZ vaccine ?
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  #308  
Old 27.03.2021, 21:13
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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The contracts were almost the same- but the price different. So if AZ chose to supply those who agreed to pay more- that would mean more profit, no?
The contracts are not the same at all: the EU's contract is with AZ Sweden under Belgian contract law. The UK's contract is with AZ UK under UK contract law. If the EU wants to have a fight with anyone, then it should be with AZ Sweden - but Sweden is a member of the EU.
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  #309  
Old 27.03.2021, 21:21
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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And NO, I am not taking the pov of the EU as 'Gospel'- just saying that what happened is viewed very differently depending whether UK, EU or beyond- and that one has to keep an open mind and not a 'nationalistic one'.
The UK as such isn't involved, the contract is between the EU and AstraZeneca AB (the Swedish 'half' of the company). It's the EU who's turning this into a nationalist thing (plus the US).
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Old 27.03.2021, 21:34
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

I had to call this vaccine centre green number nearly 50 times to get an appointment for my 80+ dad! Creasy! Finally he got the 2 vaccines but what a journey😓
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  #311  
Old 28.03.2021, 09:39
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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I am amazed that AZ has not started Slander actions against several EU governments for loss of reputation at 500 million a pop.
Why do you think it is?
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  #312  
Old 28.03.2021, 09:59
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Why do you think it is?
I am sure they will, it's just a matter of time. I suspect they are waiting for a grovelling apology which would reduce the value of the claim.
Greedy capitalists, making the vaccine at cost or even a small loss, when everybody else is making $10 plus profit a shot.
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  #313  
Old 30.03.2021, 10:47
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

GSK to support manufacture of Novavax Covid-19 jab at Barnard Castle facility

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/g...t-b926887.html

Looks like Barnard Castle is having a redemption arc
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  #314  
Old 30.03.2021, 11:35
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Raise your hands if you were born EU citizens, Britons fortunately don't count. Ah, I've been living in Switzerland for a decade, but I'm one of them. I don't think Britons can understand the support that the EU has from its citizens, especially on this issue. This is like a chicken hen, where you just keep repeating your own positions that get self-confirmed due to the lack of external outputs in the conversation. Many people and the press are in fact clamouring for even harsher measures against non EU states. I don't care about Brexit, but as Britain is no longer a member state I don't care about that country any more, that's a general feeling.

With this being said I still don't understand what this thread is doing in 'Switzerland's daily life', from what I understand some participants don't even live in Switzerland.
You are right. I really, really don't understand it on this issue.

Objectively the US is doing very well. The UK has its AZ up and running and would be doing ok even if it hadn't had any Pfizer. Switzerland the jury is very much out, but at least has enticed Moderna here and ordered big. If the bulk of the vaccinations are done in summer as per the schedule I think we will be satisfied if not delighted with our adopted nations actions.

Whereas the EU seem to have wasted time haggling and looked at cost rather than putting the money on the table so it's companies can get their factories up and running. Whether a vaccine costs 3 euros rather than 4, or 20 rather than 30 is really neither here nor there. Objectively how can one be happy with the derisory levels of vaccination. All I can see is blind loyalty.

What the EU is asking it's citizens to do is to blame the companies - but they seem to be delivering for everyone else. A bad craftsman blames his tools.

Then we brexiteers get accused of blind loyalty - yet I think to a man we were saying Boris had done a dreadful job at the beginning of the pandemic, while Germany had outmanoeuvred us on every front. We just recognise he's woken up or rather passed the job to someone who knows what they are doing - unlike vdl who thought she was competent.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 30.03.2021 at 11:56.
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  #315  
Old 30.03.2021, 12:58
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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You are right. I really, really don't understand it on this issue.

Objectively the US is doing very well. The UK has its AZ up and running and would be doing ok even if it hadn't had any Pfizer. Switzerland the jury is very much out, but at least has enticed Moderna here and ordered big. If the bulk of the vaccinations are done in summer as per the schedule I think we will be satisfied if not delighted with our adopted nations actions.

Whereas the EU seem to have wasted time haggling and looked at cost rather than putting the money on the table so it's companies can get their factories up and running. Whether a vaccine costs 3 euros rather than 4, or 20 rather than 30 is really neither here nor there. Objectively how can one be happy with the derisory levels of vaccination. All I can see is blind loyalty.

What the EU is asking it's citizens to do is to blame the companies - but they seem to be delivering for everyone else. A bad craftsman blames his tools.

Then we brexiteers get accused of blind loyalty - yet I think to a man we were saying Boris had done a dreadful job at the beginning of the pandemic, while Germany had outmanoeuvred us on every front. We just recognise he's woken up or rather passed the job to someone who knows what they are doing - unlike vdl who thought she was competent.
I completely agree with this. Its genuinely sad to see what a complete mess the EU have made of it and still they don't actually change course.

I notice across on the never ending Brexit thread the old "give us one advantage of brexit ?" question which was endlessly re-posted seems to have gone strangely quiet in the face of perhaps the single biggest advertisement of what good being a smaller trading entity - the ability to move more quickly - over being a bigger, but more powerful one - has shown.
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Old 30.03.2021, 13:48
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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Whereas the EU seem to have wasted time haggling and looked at cost rather than putting the money on the table so it's companies can get their factories up and running. Whether a vaccine costs 3 euros rather than 4, or 20 rather than 30 is really neither here nor there. Objectively how can one be happy with the derisory levels of vaccination. All I can see is blind loyalty.

What the EU is asking it's citizens to do is to blame the companies - but they seem to be delivering for everyone else. A bad craftsman blames his tools.
.
I think EU has made a lot of mistakes here (one of them being the fact that they exported vaccines without having their own citizens vaccinated first, but maybe that's not such a bad thing from some POVs) but I can't stop thinking that had it not been for EU, the EU member states would have torn each other apart like vultures. Just imagine the contest for getting the vaccines first, getting the largest share, the outbiddings etc.
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  #317  
Old 30.03.2021, 16:42
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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I think EU has made a lot of mistakes here (one of them being the fact that they exported vaccines without having their own citizens vaccinated first, but maybe that's not such a bad thing from some POVs) but I can't stop thinking that had it not been for EU, the EU member states would have torn each other apart like vultures. Just imagine the contest for getting the vaccines first, getting the largest share, the outbiddings etc.
All the more reason for them to get their act together, that restraint won't last forever. Merkel had to stop health minister Spahn in December already from stepping out of line.
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  #318  
Old 19.05.2021, 18:21
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Bit of a bump here.

Had my second dose of AZ today. 11 weeks since the first dose. Was in a different vaccine centre today. Super busy but run like a military operation so all very efficient and the staff were very friendly despite having such a busy day.
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  #319  
Old 18.06.2021, 19:47
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

In the meantime...the UK has squandered all the advantage it had with its "world beating" vaccine rollout (possible also by exporting 0 doses to the rest of the world for a while, but let's not say this too loud...).
BJ the clown didn't want to piss off the Indian government, so he delayed shutting down the border with India, because he desperately needs a trade deal with the former colony.

Europe is quickly catching up, and is reopening faster.

Where are those smug Breexiters who were bragging about "we will go on holiday this summer, we will get all the beach towels, while Europeans will be forced to stay home"?

A classic case of the turtle and the rabbit...

Last edited by NewInTownForever; 18.06.2021 at 20:00.
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  #320  
Old 18.06.2021, 21:55
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Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

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In the meantime...the UK has squandered all the advantage it had with its "world beating" vaccine rollout (possible also by exporting 0 doses to the rest of the world for a while, but let's not say this too loud...).
BJ the clown didn't want to piss off the Indian government, so he delayed shutting down the border with India, because he desperately needs a trade deal with the former colony.

Europe is quickly catching up, and is reopening faster.

Where are those smug Breexiters who were bragging about "we will go on holiday this summer, we will get all the beach towels, while Europeans will be forced to stay home"?

A classic case of the turtle and the rabbit...
Europe will get a delta wave too. Won't be long either.

The uk would be in significant trouble if it's vaccination rollout were at EU levels now. The advantage is being squandered because of innumeracy. They could fully open now with minimal deaths. That's just a fact when you look at the number of fully vaccinated in the risk groups and the death rate in those who haven't yet been offered a vaccination.

Switzerland is where the uk was c. 6 weeks ago in cases and vaccine rollout. In 6 weeks it will be where the uk is now (but will not make such an evidence free decision to stop reopening.
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