Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 27.02.2021, 09:53
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
I don't think objectivity exists in this context, but fairness definitely does.

Someone famous once said something like "you haven't fully grasped the issue and can't form a fair opinion until you can argue both sides.". The equivalent of "audiatur et altera pars" in a court of law.
Indeed!

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #122  
Old 27.02.2021, 10:53
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
I don't think objectivity exists in this context, but fairness definitely does.

Someone famous once said something like "you haven't fully grasped the issue and can't form a fair opinion until you can argue both sides.". The equivalent of "audiatur et altera pars" in a court of law.
As individuals we can never be totally objective . But wherever a large number of different individuals with different points of view come together and are free to advocate and exchange these points of view, the market for ideas as a whole becomes somewhat objective .
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #123  
Old 27.02.2021, 11:26
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,488
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,435 Times in 10,578 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

I actually do not think that the concept of objectiviy exists without comparing with somedy else and his idea of his objectivity. So being objective, as an individual, is a bit of a moot, from normative or epistemological povs.

So - maybe one can be loyal, to certain degree, to trying to be objective within particular individually and consciously selected criteria...for a bunch of scenarios. But that would be grounding, not really "objective". Grounding is always a matter of potentially more than one perspective.

I think it is safer/more exact to accept some relativity, and not go too far, but I certainly know that "objective" is always a matter of data interpretation, ie by me, you, Urs, etc. Not the actual existence of data. The acceptance of plurality of interpretations.

Now, I am pretty subjectively pleased at this detour, since the thread's theme on UK vaxing kinda rubs in the sloth vax progress here and elsewhere.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Last edited by MusicChick; 27.02.2021 at 14:31.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #124  
Old 27.02.2021, 12:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 3,046
Groaned at 231 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 5,924 Times in 2,173 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
Interesting, but sloppy and biased reporting nonetheless.

The claim that the vaccinations are the reason, though plausible, should at least be corroborated by the equivalent charts from the first wave, and more importantly by the same charts from countries that started vaccinations later (there's plenty of that on the continent).
If you scroll down he did exactly that, with the caveat of there not being mass testing first time around
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank porsch1909 for this useful post:
  #125  
Old 27.02.2021, 14:46
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
If you scroll down he did exactly that, with the caveat of there not being mass testing first time around
AFAIK there isn't mass testing now either. We don't have a clue how many people may already have been infected without even knowing
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #126  
Old 27.02.2021, 19:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 3,046
Groaned at 231 Times in 158 Posts
Thanked 5,924 Times in 2,173 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
AFAIK there isn't mass testing now either. We don't have a clue how many people may already have been infected without even knowing
I mean anyone who wants a test can get one same day and have the results by about midnight
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank porsch1909 for this useful post:
  #127  
Old 27.02.2021, 19:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
''Vaccine support surges ‘massively,' but Brexit voters less likely to take it - study shows''

who would have thunked it hey.
Don't believe that at all. Lowest take up is in London and the inner cities. Remain territory. Take up in rural and suburban England is not far off 100%.

But it's not really obviously correlating with Brexit views (take up in white affluent Lib Dem places similar to white Tory brexity places). Unfortunately what is correlating with is ethnicity. ethnic minorities (especially blacks) are refusing in vastly bigger numbers than whites.

Take up in the over 80s:

White - 93%
South Asian - 76%
Other - 73%
Mixed - 71%
Black - 61%

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...ealth-56162075

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 27.02.2021 at 20:00.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #128  
Old 28.02.2021, 02:34
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 62 Times in 50 Posts
Thanked 4,070 Times in 1,901 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
At this point some 60% want to be vaccinated, another 15% are undecided.

Expected deliveries, according to Tagesanzeiger:

We've got something like 7m adults, let's say 6.5M want to get vaccinated in the end - 13 M doses. Second doses would be done in August.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 28.02.2021, 08:36
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,049
Groaned at 649 Times in 502 Posts
Thanked 25,842 Times in 10,414 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
''Vaccine support surges ‘massively,' but Brexit voters less likely to take it - study shows''

who would have thunked it hey.
Quote:
View Post
Hordes have died, and have been replaced by young people now able to vote - but quite a few left still. And not all Brexiters were old either.
You are either being intentionally misleading or did not really read the article o which you provided a link. Instead, it looks like you just read the headline.

The article actually stated that people who voted for the Brexit party (now the reform party), or the Green party at the 2019 general election were the least willing to take the vaccine.

There is no mention at all of the Brexit referendum vote or of the voters who voted for leaving the EU in this vote.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #130  
Old 28.02.2021, 08:46
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,503
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,643 Times in 18,684 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
Hordes have died
Where, when?

How many is a horde?

Certainly not enough to change a vote.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #131  
Old 28.02.2021, 10:58
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
Where, when?

How many is a horde?

Certainly not enough to change a vote.

Tom
Maths has never been the other posters strong point, she should have listened more at school.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 01.03.2021, 07:54
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,953
Groaned at 793 Times in 443 Posts
Thanked 4,685 Times in 2,040 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

The vaccine rollout in the UK is already looking like it's reaping rewards. Cases, hospitalizations and deaths all falling dramatically, at the current rate the UK is going to hit double figures death rate within a couple of weeks. Under these circumstances it's hard to see how they can't accelerate reopening the country.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #133  
Old 01.03.2021, 09:25
Spinal's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,604
Groaned at 13 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,618 Times in 701 Posts
Spinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
The vaccine rollout in the UK is already looking like it's reaping rewards. Cases, hospitalizations and deaths all falling dramatically, at the current rate the UK is going to hit double figures death rate within a couple of weeks. Under these circumstances it's hard to see how they can't accelerate reopening the country.
I can't help but feel that people are linking the first dose of the vaccine to the reopening date, rather than the second dose.

Is you consider the 3-months between doses (in the UK), the dates make perfect sense...
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 01.03.2021, 10:04
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zug
Posts: 189
Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 214 Times in 93 Posts
AlexS has an excellent reputationAlexS has an excellent reputationAlexS has an excellent reputationAlexS has an excellent reputation
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
The vaccine rollout in the UK is already looking like it's reaping rewards. Cases, hospitalizations and deaths all falling dramatically, at the current rate the UK is going to hit double figures death rate within a couple of weeks. Under these circumstances it's hard to see how they can't accelerate reopening the country.
On the face of it, that could easily be interpreted so. I'm no lockdown fan, but I think the phased cautious approach is the way forward. I'd love the reopening to be brought forward, but just don't see it.

There's still huge debate about what the triggers/vectors for outbreaks are so I think reopening things in phases help identify what/where the triggers are. Now there's a "roadmap", at least people can get behind it.

I think Boris is holding as much back as much as he can until after Easter to give as much of a buffer as possible and allow more vaccinations to take place.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank AlexS for this useful post:
  #135  
Old 01.03.2021, 11:29
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 17,049
Groaned at 649 Times in 502 Posts
Thanked 25,842 Times in 10,414 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
On the face of it, that could easily be interpreted so. I'm no lockdown fan, but I think the phased cautious approach is the way forward. I'd love the reopening to be brought forward, but just don't see it.

There's still huge debate about what the triggers/vectors for outbreaks are so I think reopening things in phases help identify what/where the triggers are. Now there's a "roadmap", at least people can get behind it.

.
Additionally, it looks like the Brazilian variant, which is now in the U.K. due to a quarantine failure, can re-infect people who previously had the disease. They are also not sure of the effectiveness of the current vaccines with this variant.

Exercising caution would be prudent.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 05.03.2021, 19:12
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,953
Groaned at 793 Times in 443 Posts
Thanked 4,685 Times in 2,040 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Wow, UK deaths down 41% in one week!! The vaccine really appears to be a game changer! Cases too, dropping through the floor. I've been very critical of the UK government over their pandemic handling, but credit where it's due, the vaccine rollout (as well as the decision to focus on the first dose) really seems to be paying dividends.

By comparison, much of the rest of Europe appears to be experiencing what looks like a third wave. Really hoping Switzerland can get her act in order with the vaccine rollout!
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #137  
Old 05.03.2021, 20:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 9,830
Groaned at 548 Times in 399 Posts
Thanked 13,196 Times in 6,849 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
We've got something like 7m adults, let's say 6.5M want to get vaccinated in the end - 13 M doses. Second doses would be done in August.
That's where the willingness to get vaccinated comes into play. With only 60% willing as per the Tagesanzeiger poll the difference is rather significant.
Quote:
View Post
I can't help but feel that people are linking the first dose of the vaccine to the reopening date, rather than the second dose.

Is you consider the 3-months between doses (in the UK), the dates make perfect sense...
Is it certain it's the distance between the doses, rather than the time the body had to react to them?

Put another way, is there a significant difference in immunity between the two procedures if measurement of immunity starts ~4 months after the first shot for both procedures?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #138  
Old 17.03.2021, 12:10
Spinal's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,604
Groaned at 13 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,618 Times in 701 Posts
Spinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

I read the other day that the UK is aiming to be able to give 1mio vaccines per day, which is truly impressive...

On the more annoying front, I was looking at BAG guidance, which still has the UK in the high risk countries from the 22nd March onwards, despite cases plummeting...

In fact, if I read right, the UK has less that a third of new cases (per 100,000) than Switzerland does! This is particularly impressive, as I understand from family that they are mass testing in schools (the kids get tested twice a week), meaning that there are substantially more tests done in the UK and in CH... and yet still substantially lower numbers.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Spinal for this useful post:
  #139  
Old 17.03.2021, 12:52
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 500
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 499 Times in 247 Posts
Spaceghost has an excellent reputationSpaceghost has an excellent reputationSpaceghost has an excellent reputationSpaceghost has an excellent reputation
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
The vaccine rollout in the UK is already looking like it's reaping rewards. Cases, hospitalizations and deaths all falling dramatically, at the current rate the UK is going to hit double figures death rate within a couple of weeks. Under these circumstances it's hard to see how they can't accelerate reopening the country.

Scotland are already talking of opening up the country early April.

Booked my UK jab for Sunday when I'm home again this weekend. Lovely.
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 17.03.2021, 13:01
Spinal's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,604
Groaned at 13 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 1,618 Times in 701 Posts
Spinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond reputeSpinal has a reputation beyond repute
Re: UK hits 15,000,000 vaccination target

Quote:
View Post
Scotland are already talking of opening up the country early April.

Booked my UK jab for Sunday when I'm home again this weekend. Lovely.
I really need to go to the UK... but the 10-day quarantine on both sides is a bit... problematic...
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Immigrants target road tankers Sbrinz International affairs/politics 0 01.04.2015 14:16
300m target shooting Phil_MCR Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 41 25.11.2011 11:11
Foreigners not the target of the latest SVP posters panda Swiss politics/news 109 12.05.2011 16:18
Target Practice Maple Lady Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 1 01.02.2011 15:17
WikiLeaks' next target: 'A big U.S. bank' Florida99 International affairs/politics 5 01.12.2010 13:10


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0