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  #141  
Old 25.05.2021, 10:24
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This is pretty much how people respond, which only serves to make things worse.
I've struggled mentally this last year and replies such as yours are really quite inhuman and unpleasant.
Sure if you dont have time to try and help someone with a few words, then just move on but rubbishing me with no thought? That seems uncalled for.
Paranoia is not something to be laughed at, but I'm certainly not "rubbishing" you. The previous poster was rubbishing the video you posted, perhaps. Did you agree with its contents? Did you want others to agree with it, or to point out its flaws in order to help you become better informed?

I don't know what you expect to achieve by playing the "I need help" card, but if you really want help, presumably in the form of better information, then perhaps you could ask for it rather than continuing to watch (I presume) and post undescribed links to videos like this.

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Look, i'm trying NOT to be a conspiracy theorist. I dont like having these thoughts. I want to find something here that makes me think "yep i was an idiot - mid life crisis" and eat humble pie for the rest of my life.
Yes, and someone simply pointed out that the video's claims, specifically the one about the vaccines being "gene therapy" were complete nonsense. Does that not help?
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  #142  
Old 25.05.2021, 10:30
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Paranoia is not something to be laughed at, and I'm certainly not "rubbishing" you. The previous poster was rubbishing the video you posted, perhaps. Did you agree with its contents? Did you want others to agree with it, or to point out its flaws in order to help you become better informed?

I don't know what you expect to achieve by playing the "I need help" card, but if you really want help, presumably in the form of better information, then perhaps you could ask for it rather than continuing to watch (I presume) and post undescribed links to videos like this.
Ok, please give me better information.

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Yes, and someone simply pointed out that the video's claims, specifically the one about the vaccines being "gene therapy" were complete nonsense. Does that not help?
Sorry the dictionary contradicts you a bit here....

"Gene therapy is a medical field which focuses on the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect or the treatment of disease by repairing or reconstructing defective genetic material."

I thought messenger RNA did something like that? Its closer than the other definition.
But no doubt someone with more knowledge can correct me right?

Last edited by roegner; 25.05.2021 at 10:37. Reason: Merging consecutive posts, pls use multi quote button
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  #143  
Old 25.05.2021, 10:40
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Sorry the dictionary contradicts you a bit here....

"Gene therapy is a medical field which focuses on the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect or the treatment of disease by repairing or reconstructing defective genetic material."

I thought messenger RNA did something like that?
Did you. "Something like that" means that you don't know, so perhaps you should read up a little more about how the vaccines actually work then, or listen to those folk that are experts in the field(s) of science involved, rather than lawyers and exposé-hunting reporters.
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  #144  
Old 25.05.2021, 10:41
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Did you. Perhaps you should read up a little more about it and how the vaccines actually work then, or actually listen to those folk that are experts in the field(s) of science involved, rather than lawyers and exposé-hunting reporters.
ok, thanks for all your help.
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  #145  
Old 25.05.2021, 10:54
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

you ad hoc collections of pieces of knowledge is useless, btw the same is with me, but I am not pretending that I know what i am talking about.
You can go and simply google "mrna covid vacines" and you can start educate yourself.

just read your earlier reply: you started with a humble "I don't know much" but you still end it with "believe me". No, sorry, I don't and I never will. I am really sick and tired of all you preachers on the web. Everyone thinks how smart s/he is, but you are just producing loud screeching noises that prevent people to learn and think. Bunch of lazy people just yelling their "smartness" without putting any effort into studying.
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  #146  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:05
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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you ad hoc collections of pieces of knowledge is useless, btw the same is with me, but I am not pretending that I know what i am talking about.
You can go and simply google "mrna covid vacines" and you can start educate yourself.

just read your earlier reply: you started with a humble "I don't know much" but you still end it with "believe me". No, sorry, I don't and I never will. I am really sick and tired of all you preachers on the web. Everyone thinks how smart s/he is, but you are just producing loud screeching noises that prevent people to learn and think. Bunch of lazy people just yelling their "smartness" without putting any effort into studying.
I'm sorry but i've spent hundreds of hours attempting to 'correct' my views but i'm still stuck distrusting much of the current situation. I haven't preached to anyone, i just shared a video which echoed my feelings and i'm totally open to being totally wrong.
I expect people to be rude and dismissive and assume i'm lazy and whatnot, it's how the majority of people work.
Assuming i hadn't already spent a very long time reading up on mRNA vs traditional vaccines was, well, an assumption.
Pretty basic stuff coming back at me so far i must say.
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  #147  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:24
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Assuming i hadn't already spent a very long time reading up on mRNA vs traditional vaccines was, well, an assumption.
Based on your linking of them to Gene Therapy it's a pretty fair assumption though.

Like, assuming that while you may have read some stuff about vaccines it's probably mostly the pseudo-science type statements that you refer to elsewhere (e.g. the video) and that you certainly don't really understand what Gene Therapy is and is not if you think it's the same thing.

Like nejc I'm no expert on either, but the point is that I don't need to be, and neither do you. You seem to have started from the idea that there is a conspiracy about covid, and/or the vaccines, and only look for views that seem to confirm it. If you want help then you could do a lot worse than looking at what the real scientists say about these things.
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  #148  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:29
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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And now look at the article on the same website, a day later, that says the earlier reports are unconfirmed. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-age...ab-2021-05-24/

It's always cherry-picking, isn't it? Trying to find anything to support a theory, without bothering to look at all the other stuff that doesn't.
Where have I cherry picked here? I was just pointing out how appallingly the mainstream media and social media have behaved throughout this pandemic. Banning people from YouTube, Twitter and Facebook for suggesting the virus may have escaped from a Wuhan Lab, whereas one year on, this still remains a distinct possibility.

Vox has now rewritten their article on this from a year ago because "the science changed". Science doesn't "change"! The Scientific Method determines that all hypotheses be explored until they can ruled out through observation/evidence/experimentation. This doesn't mean de-platforming or banning people that have a different scientific opinion

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Editor’s note, May 24, 2021: Since this piece was originally published in March 2020, scientific consensus has shifted. Now some experts say the “lab leak” theory warrants an investigation, along with the natural origin theory. Some language in this article was updated in April 2020 to reflect scientific thinking, but it has not been updated since then. For our most up-to-date coverage, visit Vox’s coronavirus hub.
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/4/2115660...hina-wuhan-lab

Another example, from CNN. Two headlines, a year apart:

Anthony Fauci just crushed Donald Trump's theory on the origins of the coronavirus

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/05/p...lab/index.html

Dr. Fauci says he's 'not convinced' Covid-19 developed naturally

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/healt...vpx-newday.cnn
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  #149  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:32
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Based on your linking of them to Gene Therapy it's a pretty fair assumption though.

Like, assuming that while you may have read some stuff about vaccines it's probably mostly the pseudo-science type statements that you refer to elsewhere (e.g. the video) and that you certainly don't really understand what Gene Therapy is and is not if you think it's the same thing.

Like nejc I'm no expert on either, but the point is that I don't need to be, and neither do you. You seem to have started from the idea that there is a conspiracy about covid, and/or the vaccines, and only look for views that seem to confirm it. If you want help then you could do a lot worse than looking at what the real scientists say about these things.
And you assume i haven't. It's ok, i read you loud and clear.
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  #150  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:32
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Sorry the dictionary contradicts you a bit here....



"Gene therapy is a medical field which focuses on the genetic modification of cells to produce a therapeutic effect or the treatment of disease by repairing or reconstructing defective genetic material."

I thought messenger RNA did something like that? Its closer than the other definition.
But no doubt someone with more knowledge can correct me right?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucele...e-are-claiming

+



tl;dr: No, there is no gene editing happenning, i.e. modifying the "stuff within your nuclei".


+ additionally, for the "vaccine developed in 6 months I don't trust it" crew:

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  #151  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:34
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

In really simple terms, the difference between mRNA vaccine and gene therapy:

mRNA
- tells a cell how to make a protein, in this the cell is a specialised immune cell and the protein is one that looks like part of the coronavirus
- these immune cells do this all the time naturally with wild viruses
- the mRNA is not integrated into any genes/DNA, it's just a message

Gene therapy
- involves adding or removing or altering genes in the DNA of cells, permanently
- uses a virus to deliver the change
- will also be included in any child cells if the cell is replicating

So really nothing in common except they involve DNA/RNA (which could be said to some degree about many drugs and treatments, any ultimately all of them).
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  #152  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:37
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Good point. I wonder if any other lies have been told throughout this debacle which will come to light soon?

I'm glad this thread popped up as i was looking for some help and many of you seem pretty smart and might be able to help me.

I think by the definitions of some of the forum members here (and as it turns out society as a whole now), that i'm a conspiracy theorist.
I thought of myself as a free thinker and a sceptic who needed to test and verify before believing things as huge as religion or major life changes, but it turns out i'm just a nutter.

I dont want to be a conspiracy theorist. Up until Feb 2020 i truly thought i was a sane and reasonably intelligent person. Apparently now i'm selfish, stupid, irresponsible, spreading misinformation and all kinds of other negative things, which i hadn't realised.

So i'm not going to list all the reasons i cant help being a conspiracy theorist (because there are far too many and i dont think anyone here would care anyway) and post a link to a discussion from 2 other prominent and intelligent conspiracy theorists.

https://vimeo.com/553673924

Please try and watch/listen to at least some of it 'cos this will probably give many of you answers as to why there are so many lunatics out there.

If you cant be bothered to listen to this, then maybe you can offer me some help to become 'normal' again.
This is another phenomena of this pandemic, how it's bent normally perfectly reasonable people into full blown conspiracy theory crazies. I'm certain this is a result of media gaslighting by actions such as smearing and censoring scientific ideas that go against the majority of state governments Covid consensus.

It's a shame because these videos don't help the cause of reasonable people who just question the decision and actions that have been taken. When they start talking about population control then you know it's time to switch off. Same goes for the "Great Reset".

Never forget Hanlon's razor, "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". That's not to say there aren't organizations and government's who are willing to exploit the current situation, but one should never be under any illusions this is part of some wider grand conspiracy.
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  #153  
Old 25.05.2021, 11:45
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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I'm certain this is a result of media gaslighting by actions such as smearing and censoring scientific ideas that go against the majority of state governments Covid consensus.
I think that's a really good point. Something that's 'alerted' me (probably incorrectly as you say) to this being 'wrong' is the total suppression of open debate where there are legitimate questions from seemingly normal or experienced professionals.
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  #154  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:13
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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I think that's a really good point. Something that's 'alerted' me (probably incorrectly as you say) to this being 'wrong' is the total suppression of open debate where there are legitimate questions from seemingly normal or experienced professionals.
I think this is the most infuriating point, that the censorship isn't limited to YouTubers and opinionated hacks, but even respected scientists from renown universities. Just last week Professor Martin Kulldorff, an epidemiologist from Harvard was censored by Twitter for questioning the efficacy of Facemasks. It's really time for governments to step in and stop Big Tech from being the arbiters of truth.
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  #155  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:20
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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I think this is the most infuriating point, that the censorship isn't limited to YouTubers and opinionated hacks, but even respected scientists from renown universities. Just last week Professor Martin Kulldorff, an epidemiologist from Harvard was censored by Twitter for questioning the efficacy of Facemasks. It's really time for governments to step in and stop Big Tech from being the arbiters of truth.
While I agree - it is unlikely to happen, govs and Big Tech would have to be as smart as "respected scientists from reknown universities". Even simple respect for plurality of opinions doesn't seem to work any more. Notice that people who can stomach alterity never say "you are wrong", they simply state that there is an posibility of all of us being wrong or making mistakes.

I am glad that EF is quite open to other ideas and scenarios. I respect people who protect that.
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  #156  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:32
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

Recently, in a comment on Zerohedge I found a reference to this paper:

https://jvi.asm.org/content/jvi/82/4/1899.full.pdf

I believe it's fully proven/documented that they were experimenting with bat-corona viruses in that lab in Wuhan.
If Zerohedge is right, that research was partly funded by the US-government's NIH (which Dr. Fauci presides).

It's AFAIK also proven that the infamous wet-market is not the source of patient zero.

China will of course deny this in eternity, they are even going after children-books.

https://www.dw.com/de/wie-china-den-...ste/a-56852431

As a lot of senior researchers at that lab are also high-ranking PLA members, it's IMO highly likely that at least part of the research was military, too.

The research itself is too complicated to make sense of for a layman, but it has been speculated that this is basically an escaped bio-weapon.

The lab-escape is IMO just Occam's Razor.
It's a bat-based coronavirus, they have a BSL4-lab there that experiments with bat-viruses and they have a history of lab-escapes in China.

If there was a pandemic near a European BSL4 lab, nobody would try very hard to find the problem elsewhere.

China is these days the main sponsor of the WHO, the head of the team they sent in recently was one of the guys funding the above research (or Zerohedge is wrong on that one too).
It's almost comical that the media doesn't ask any questions about this. Almost only, because so many people died.
But my guess is that the long arm of the CCP has probably already reached a lot of foreign media through ad-spending, intimidation and incentives like exclusive stories etc.
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  #157  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:34
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Quite so. Unfortunately there's a tendency for conspiracy theorists to cite such videos as 'evidence' on the basis that nobody is going to make the effort to watch such drivel and argue with them.


Thanks for taking the time to watch and discredit it.
Videos and articles, "studies" etc. Who has so much time on their hands. On pretty much every subject of public interest not only Covid and anti-covid vaccines.

I believe those people who want to be informed will try to find reliable sources themselves and make up their own minds. You can't "save" everyone.
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  #158  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:34
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Of course i do understand this and i am sorry for your losses. I also know people (family) that have been very poorly (hospitalised) by this illness. I know, and he also confirms, that there is a nasty illness out there, which btw Flu has some very severe versions as we all know. I lost both my grandparents not that long ago to flu which then lead to complications, pneumonia i think.

But your point about the vaccine isn't valid i dont think. The definition in the dictionary states "a preparation of killed microorganisms, living attenuated organisms, or living fully virulent organisms that is administered to produce or artificially increase immunity to a particular disease".
This new one isn't that. That's a fact.
An interesting new phenomenon how people pull out ancient dictionary definitions and try to apply them to today's world.
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Old 25.05.2021, 12:44
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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I am glad that EF is quite open to other ideas and scenarios. I respect people who protect that.
I think that's why i raised my head above the parapet tbh, knowing that there are decent folk, keen to discuss and debate, and actually help one another out.
I'm very aware that echo chambers are the worst thing for open debate, hence my post.
And already some of this has helped tbh - even the predictable and snarky stuff. I've missed that (cos the pub has been closed)
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Old 25.05.2021, 12:46
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Videos and articles, "studies" etc. Who has so much time on their hands. On pretty much every subject of public interest not only Covid and anti-covid vaccines.

I believe those people who want to be informed will try to find reliable sources themselves and make up their own minds. You can't "save" everyone.
Fair point, well made. I've had time and been stuck indoors like the rest of us and therefore have probably gone a bit mad
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