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  #161  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:48
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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An interesting new phenomenon how people pull out ancient dictionary definitions and try to apply them to today's world.


They do update them all the time tho. But you're right, i shouldn't use the dictionary to look up the meaning of words.
I'm well aware mRNA vaccines exist and all dictionaries will probably update their outdated meanings soon.
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  #162  
Old 25.05.2021, 12:50
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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I think that's why i raised my head above the parapet tbh, knowing that there are decent folk, keen to discuss and debate, and actually help one another out.
I'm very aware that echo chambers are the worst thing for open debate, hence my post.
And already some of this has helped tbh - even the predictable and snarky stuff. I've missed that (cos the pub has been closed)
Well - I do neither pub nor snark but like minds that identify and avoid group-think..in a civil way.

I do marmite, scones and fish&chips. Fries, rather.
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  #163  
Old 25.05.2021, 13:15
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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I do marmite, scones and fish&chips. Fries, rather.
Now you're talking

When they dispense with the quarantine rules back home, fish and chips are on the menu fo sho
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  #164  
Old 25.05.2021, 13:20
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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They do update them all the time tho. But you're right, i shouldn't use the dictionary to look up the meaning of words.
I'm well aware mRNA vaccines exist and all dictionaries will probably update their outdated meanings soon.
Of course, you should use dictionaries to look up words but beware of out of date definitions.
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  #165  
Old 25.05.2021, 13:25
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Recently, in a comment on Zerohedge I found a reference to this paper:

https://jvi.asm.org/content/jvi/82/4/1899.full.pdf

I believe it's fully proven/documented that they were experimenting with bat-corona viruses in that lab in Wuhan.
If Zerohedge is right, that research was partly funded by the US-government's NIH (which Dr. Fauci presides).

It's AFAIK also proven that the infamous wet-market is not the source of patient zero.

China will of course deny this in eternity, they are even going after children-books.

https://www.dw.com/de/wie-china-den-...ste/a-56852431

As a lot of senior researchers at that lab are also high-ranking PLA members, it's IMO highly likely that at least part of the research was military, too.

The research itself is too complicated to make sense of for a layman, but it has been speculated that this is basically an escaped bio-weapon.

The lab-escape is IMO just Occam's Razor.
It's a bat-based coronavirus, they have a BSL4-lab there that experiments with bat-viruses and they have a history of lab-escapes in China.

If there was a pandemic near a European BSL4 lab, nobody would try very hard to find the problem elsewhere.

China is these days the main sponsor of the WHO, the head of the team they sent in recently was one of the guys funding the above research (or Zerohedge is wrong on that one too).
It's almost comical that the media doesn't ask any questions about this. Almost only, because so many people died.
But my guess is that the long arm of the CCP has probably already reached a lot of foreign media through ad-spending, intimidation and incentives like exclusive stories etc.
Despite the pandemic, if you look up the military requirements for a bioweapon you will see this one is a nonstarter.

It will not quickly disable an opposing force, it is not highly effective against people of military age and it spreads by aerosol which is too risky for military use as you wipe out your own population.
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  #166  
Old 25.05.2021, 15:01
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Despite the pandemic, if you look up the military requirements for a bioweapon you will see this one is a nonstarter.

It will not quickly disable an opposing force, it is not highly effective against people of military age and it spreads by aerosol which is too risky for military use as you wipe out your own population.
Well, it obviously escaped prematurely.

Bio-weapon research is as much about the defense as it is about offense.
I'm sure they were looking for a vaccine, too.

History will tell, of course, but an argument could be made that the US is pretty much finished now, after the pandemic, at least as a super-power.

The US (and Europe) have been weakened (economically, politically, socially) much more by the pandemic than China (and Russia).
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  #167  
Old 25.05.2021, 15:18
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Well, it obviously escaped prematurely.

Bio-weapon research is as much about the defense as it is about offense.
I'm sure they were looking for a vaccine, too.

History will tell, of course, but an argument could be made that the US is pretty much finished now, after the pandemic, at least as a super-power.

The US (and Europe) have been weakened (economically, politically, socially) much more by the pandemic than China (and Russia).
6-7 years before China overtakes the US as the world's largest economy.
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  #168  
Old 25.05.2021, 16:20
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Well, it obviously escaped prematurely.

Bio-weapon research is as much about the defense as it is about offense.
I'm sure they were looking for a vaccine, too.

History will tell, of course, but an argument could be made that the US is pretty much finished now, after the pandemic, at least as a super-power.

The US (and Europe) have been weakened (economically, politically, socially) much more by the pandemic than China (and Russia).
Quite a clever one too given that it barely hurt anyone in the whole of China but ran rampant throughout the rest of the world.
Dont tell me, they are good at track and trace, yeah ok. Let's be like China then.
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  #169  
Old 25.05.2021, 16:39
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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6-7 years before China overtakes the US as the world's largest economy.
Will anyone care? (Aside of WHO, logically)
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  #170  
Old 25.05.2021, 17:45
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Amusing reading some of the early replies on this thread regarding the lab leak. A year ago anyone that questioned this as a possibility was dismissed as a conspiracy theorist. Facebooks “fact checkers” removed posts that mentioned this. Zerohedge was banned from Twitter. Now we have Dr Fauci saying he isn’t convinced there isn’t a link and the WSJ reporting staff from the lab were hospitalized already in November 2019!
Even with the latest information, the source of the outbreak is still not conclusive. Without investigative access to the hospital records of the lab workers' visits and other relevant data around Wuhan, it's still just speculative. It's quite possible that it was an outbreak from the lab. As well as quite possible that it was an inter-species jump, just as the 1918 flu epidemic was almost certainly an inter-species jump.
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  #171  
Old 25.05.2021, 18:13
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Quite a clever one too given that it barely hurt anyone in the whole of China but ran rampant throughout the rest of the world.
Dont tell me, they are good at track and trace, yeah ok. Let's be like China then.
No need for a new conspiracy theory, obviously being in a tightly controlled one party state makes it easier to control something like this, not many anti-mask protesters in China!

And it wouldn't be a great surprise to find they under-reported the impact, like they do with most bad news.
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  #172  
Old 25.05.2021, 18:35
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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I believe it's fully proven/documented that they were experimenting with bat-corona viruses in that lab in Wuhan.
If Zerohedge is right, that research was partly funded by the US-government's NIH (which Dr. Fauci presides).
The question is what kind of research has been funded.

Fauci has confirmed US sponsorship for some works in the Wuhan lab, but categorically denied funding for for gain-of-function research, when questioned by Rand Paul during a senate hearing around a week ago. The gain-of-function includes stuff like genetic modifications that would give the virus the ability to infect humans.
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  #173  
Old 25.05.2021, 19:41
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Will anyone care? (Aside of WHO, logically)
Well they should care, this will be the biggest geo-political shift of our lifetimes. I fear many in the west just aren't aware of what it means. We're too busy embroiled in largely irrelevant squabbles such as the culture wars, Climate Change, Trump, Brexit etc. all the while China is on the verge of becoming the most powerful country in the world.

Recent history has shown the West is woefully unprepared and too divided for the challenges that this will pose. It's no use hoping China will fail like the old Soviet Union did either, as China actually has a model that works.

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Even with the latest information, the source of the outbreak is still not conclusive. Without investigative access to the hospital records of the lab workers' visits and other relevant data around Wuhan, it's still just speculative. It's quite possible that it was an outbreak from the lab. As well as quite possible that it was an inter-species jump, just as the 1918 flu epidemic was almost certainly an inter-species jump.
Whether it's conclusive or not is neither here nor there. It's fairly likely that we'll never get to the bottom of origin of Covid. Nearly 18 months into the pandemic, one could argue it's not even that important anymore. As long as the CCP hold the key to that information, we can never be certain.

What's far more concerning is the way Western media and the Big Tech giants were so quick to dismiss this as a conspiracy theory and block discussion of it.

We have to put this into context, the WHO told us in January 2020 that there was no evidence of human to human transmission. They then told us in March 2020 that it was a "Fact" that Covid was not airborne. Both these statements now demonstrably false, but even back then raised many eyebrows in the scientific community.

You can't claim to be "following the science" if you stifle scientific debate. This is what Big Tech and Mainstream Media have been guilty of doing throughout this pandemic, and I don't think one requires such a vivid imagination to draw a line between this action, and the increase in conspiracy theorists we're now seeing.
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  #174  
Old 25.05.2021, 20:02
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Well they should care, this will be the biggest geo-political shift of our lifetimes. I fear many in the west just aren't aware of what it means. We're too busy embroiled in largely irrelevant squabbles such as the culture wars, Climate Change, Trump, Brexit etc. all the while China is on the verge of becoming the most powerful country in the world.

Recent history has shown the West is woefully unprepared and too divided for the challenges that this will pose. It's no use hoping China will fail like the old Soviet Union did either, as China actually has a model that works.
I know. That's why I think that people will not care enough. I do not think Soviet Union failed, Russia salvaged itself well and the satelites were not important for the Western world to worry about. Israel will dominate a lot of the independence talks and strategies, I think. They lead the vax campaign. V4 will learn.
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  #175  
Old 25.05.2021, 20:10
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Where have I cherry picked here?
You chose to post one article that supports your idea while completely ignoring the very next article, from the same media outlet, that cast doubts on the claims raised in the first one.

And then in the rest of this post, unquoted, you change the subject completely, rather than try to justify what you claimed earlier.

Clearly there is so much that has been posted on the subject that nobody could have read it all, but by continuing to link only articles supporting whatever it is you're trying to say at any given time and then ignoring all those that don't agree you're hardly demonstrating the free and open debate you espouse.

Last edited by Guest; 25.05.2021 at 20:28.
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  #176  
Old 25.05.2021, 21:28
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Well they should care, this will be the biggest geo-political shift of our lifetimes. I fear many in the west just aren't aware of what it means. We're too busy embroiled in largely irrelevant squabbles such as the culture wars, Climate Change, Trump, Brexit etc. all the while China is on the verge of becoming the most powerful country in the world.

Recent history has shown the West is woefully unprepared and too divided for the challenges that this will pose. It's no use hoping China will fail like the old Soviet Union did either, as China actually has a model that works.

Whether it's conclusive or not is neither here nor there. It's fairly likely that we'll never get to the bottom of origin of Covid. Nearly 18 months into the pandemic, one could argue it's not even that important anymore. As long as the CCP hold the key to that information, we can never be certain.

What's far more concerning is the way Western media and the Big Tech giants were so quick to dismiss this as a conspiracy theory and block discussion of it.

We have to put this into context, the WHO told us in January 2020 that there was no evidence of human to human transmission. They then told us in March 2020 that it was a "Fact" that Covid was not airborne. Both these statements now demonstrably false, but even back then raised many eyebrows in the scientific community.

You can't claim to be "following the science" if you stifle scientific debate. This is what Big Tech and Mainstream Media have been guilty of doing throughout this pandemic, and I don't think one requires such a vivid imagination to draw a line between this action, and the increase in conspiracy theorists we're now seeing.
"You can't claim to be "following the science" if you stifle scientific debate." Scientific debate is based on facts, not speculation. WHO honourably changed their advice as more facts emerged, they did not try to whitewash or gaslight.
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  #177  
Old 25.05.2021, 21:31
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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Quite a clever one too given that it barely hurt anyone in the whole of China but ran rampant throughout the rest of the world.
Dont tell me, they are good at track and trace, yeah ok. Let's be like China then.
No, China was extremely good at lockdown including nailing shut the entrances to apartment blocks.
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  #178  
Old 25.05.2021, 21:35
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

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You chose to post one article that supports your idea while completely ignoring the very next article, from the same media outlet, that cast doubts on the claims raised in the first one.

And then in the rest of this post, unquoted, you change the subject completely, rather than try to justify what you claimed earlier.

Clearly there is so much that has been posted on the subject that nobody could have read it all, but by continuing to link only articles supporting whatever it is you're trying to say at any given time and then ignoring all those that don't agree you're hardly demonstrating the free and open debate you espouse.
What it is I've said is perfectly clear, that it was wrong to dismiss and censor those that speculated that Covid came from a lab. I've not given an opinion until now as to whether it did or not, but for what it's worth, I think it is very much a possibility and not merely a conspiracy theory to be disregarded. So no cherry picking from my side!
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  #179  
Old 07.06.2021, 16:07
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

Author Naomi Wolf permanently suspended by Twitter
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She shared posts claiming that the vaccine was a "software platform that can receive uploads," compared White House adviser Anthony Fauci to “Satan” and tweeted that feces and urine of those who received the vaccine should be separated from society and that tests should be done to measure its impact on nonvaccinated people through drinking water.
Seems quite reasonable to me, who knew feces and urine of those who received the vaccine are in our drinking water
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  #180  
Old 07.06.2021, 18:10
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Re: Covid+ Conspiracy Theories/Claims

One thing is sure, with all the Fauci-mails "leaked" in the FOIA-request, he sure has been setup as the number one patsy, should the need to have one arise.


Wouldn't be surprised about a sudden accident or heart-attack either, TBH.


The guy is 80
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