Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01.03.2021, 10:13
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,946
Groaned at 294 Times in 198 Posts
Thanked 19,002 Times in 7,991 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Just tell them no and ask them to move the building back 20cm. Think about how much $$$ you'd accept as compensation when the counter-offer comes. It should be at least the cost of re-doing the build plus convenience fee, plus benefit of having an extra 20cm of internal space.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 01.03.2021, 11:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,380
Groaned at 37 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 27,091 Times in 8,364 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
Sweetie, itís not an error but a calculated strategy. They knew exactly what they were doing but decided to accept the consequences, knowing their neighbors would not put up a fuss. Itís done all the time.
Best comment on this thread.

Keep this in the forefront of your mind as you decide what steps to take.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 01.03.2021, 11:43
Bossa Nova's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 290
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 689 Times in 194 Posts
Bossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
Sweetie, itís not an error but a calculated strategy. They knew exactly what they were doing but decided to accept the consequences, knowing their neighbors would not put up a fuss. Itís done all the time.

I would tend to agree with this. I used to be a trusting person until I went through he process of buying and building an apartment in CH. There is so much willful deceit that people try to pass off as "mistakes". More than two years after receiving the keys we are still in arguments with architects and project managers over who is at fault for some non-conformities that occurred due to extreme laziness on the part of the builders, and and one huge error that is so massive it is inconceivable to me that it managed to pass through all the checks that should be in place on a building site. They completely knew what they were doing.



We are refusing to sign off on anything, the infuriating thing is that no one is accepting responsibility for these problems, they just keep coming back to us hoping we will choose to ignore these errors, with pressure for us to sign them off. We either want them to re-do the work correctly at zero cost to us, or provide us compensation equivalent to what it would cost us hire external workers to do the work. The amounts of money involved are not insignificant, but the most generous offer we've had from them is 1000.- CHF. It's an absolute scandal.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank Bossa Nova for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 01.03.2021, 11:49
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,563
Groaned at 71 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,923 Times in 1,058 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
The amounts of money involved are not insignificant, but the most generous offer we've had from them is 1000.- CHF. It's an absolute scandal.
How much would make you sign?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Talk to you later for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 01.03.2021, 11:52
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: LaCote
Posts: 1,514
Groaned at 11 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 2,809 Times in 1,062 Posts
Sigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond reputeSigh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
How much would make you sign?
Ahh so you are the offending neighbour
A goatshed can never be big enough
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Sigh for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 01.03.2021, 12:00
Bossa Nova's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 290
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 689 Times in 194 Posts
Bossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
How much would make you sign?

As I said, compensation equivalent to what it would cost us to hire someone to do the work correctly. Not six digits, but certainly well into five. The "mistake" is something that doesn't make the place completely unlivable, but we do not want to have to tolerate it in the medium or long term, and so want the repair work done. We paid for a room with certain specifications and they did not deliver, so either they repair it on their dime, or give us enough money to pay someone else to make the room conform to the original building plan.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Bossa Nova for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 01.03.2021, 12:02
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
As I said, compensation equivalent to what it would cost us to hire someone to do the work correctly. Not six digits, but certainly well into five. The "mistake" is something that doesn't make the place completely unlivable, but we do not want to have to tolerate it in the medium or long term, and so want the repair work done. We paid for a room with certain specifications and they did not deliver, so either they repair it on their dime, or give us enough money to pay someone else to make the room conform to the original building plan.
The responsible person should have insurance........
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 01.03.2021, 12:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Luzern
Posts: 610
Groaned at 36 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 794 Times in 382 Posts
nejc has a reputation beyond reputenejc has a reputation beyond reputenejc has a reputation beyond reputenejc has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

from architects point of view:
basically a big part of our work is actually to make plans that fulfill all the legal and practical requirements and often 10 centimeters are crucial. Swiss builders really like to push everything to last centimeter, even when it doesn't have much sense.
So, what they are asking you, is to cede some of your rights for their gain. In 9 years as I am working here in Switzerland, I haven't seen this to happen without some financial compensation.
Depends how this is written down, it can have very long term consequences on your property. "Baurecht that didn't have much importance 100 years ago can change the shape of whole neighborhood that is planned now. I have seen that
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank nejc for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 01.03.2021, 12:13
Bossa Nova's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 290
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 689 Times in 194 Posts
Bossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
The responsible person should have insurance........

We know. The architect keeps telling us they will talk it over with their insurer, but we've been stuck at this step for more than six months now.



Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Bossa Nova for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 01.03.2021, 12:28
Talk to you later's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,563
Groaned at 71 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,923 Times in 1,058 Posts
Talk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond reputeTalk to you later has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
As I said, compensation equivalent to what it would cost us to hire someone to do the work correctly. Not six digits, but certainly well into five. The "mistake" is something that doesn't make the place completely unlivable, but we do not want to have to tolerate it in the medium or long term, and so want the repair work done. We paid for a room with certain specifications and they did not deliver, so either they repair it on their dime, or give us enough money to pay someone else to make the room conform to the original building plan.

I fully understand, was just curious. Will 10'000 cover it or more like 90,000? Give me your IBAN details, I will transfer it. Anything to help a fellow EF user
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01.03.2021, 12:56
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
We know. The architect keeps telling us they will talk it over with their insurer, but we've been stuck at this step for more than six months now.



Then I would suggest they put the insulation inside the house as it's probably the cheapest option, as it's far from the answer they want some compensation will be offered fairly quickly. I suspect 10% of the value of your property would be a good starting point for negotiations.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 01.03.2021, 13:00
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,754
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,537 Times in 2,076 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

OP - what did they actually build?

Are we talking major increase in property size, multiple floors etc, or just a conservatory or similar?

Obviously any compensation has to make it worth their while not to just fix it or rebuild.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01.03.2021, 13:07
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,239
Groaned at 72 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 5,895 Times in 2,778 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
The responsible person should have insurance........
Indeed. Architects and contractors have liability insurance. I have to include this document for every offer I make for the company I work for.

The builders could just demolish and rebuild, that's what they do. It's not even the bank account of your neighbor that will suffer.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 01.03.2021, 15:09
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Luzern
Posts: 610
Groaned at 36 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 794 Times in 382 Posts
nejc has a reputation beyond reputenejc has a reputation beyond reputenejc has a reputation beyond reputenejc has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
I fully understand, was just curious. Will 10'000 cover it or more like 90,000? Give me your IBAN details, I will transfer it. Anything to help a fellow EF user
For one of our latest project the owner paid 100.000 chf to the neighbor, so he didn't complained about the new building proposal.
Project was done according to regulations, but to gain one floor more (4 apartments more) we have to go with "gestaltungsplan". Neighbor's objections wouldn't stop the project, but it would mean few years more in the process.
So, from my very limited point of view, those 20 centimeters should be below 10.000
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank nejc for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 01.03.2021, 15:44
Izzt89's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Zurich, Zug
Posts: 152
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 352 Times in 139 Posts
Izzt89 has a reputation beyond reputeIzzt89 has a reputation beyond reputeIzzt89 has a reputation beyond reputeIzzt89 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
For one of our latest project the owner paid 100.000 chf to the neighbor, so he didn't complained about the new building proposal.
Project was done according to regulations, but to gain one floor more (4 apartments more) we have to go with "gestaltungsplan". Neighbor's objections wouldn't stop the project, but it would mean few years more in the process.
So, from my very limited point of view, those 20 centimeters should be below 10.000
Please allow me to disagree with the valuation of 10,0000...
Firstly, because, well, it is not a question of pro-rata... is a question of principles (and best practices). Architects (and the little army of engineers doing their jo... i mean, serving them ) are technical specialists, (not your - or mine- average father-in-law turn into handyman), so, as stated above (by an architect), mistakes of this type rarely (if ever) occur*. As such, I agree that it has been calculated purposefully, and probably for a reason that you are not aware of.

Just top of mind, (a)+(b)+(c)+(d)+(e) could be food for thought.

(a)You can calculate how many square meters of 'living space' they would be losing inside their apartment by installing the insulation within (and not outside), together with
(b) the loss of functionality (maybe the toilette is not big enough anymore, maybe the kitchen elements dot not fit, the built-in cupboards have to be re-made ....), and that's the win that they make (ah, and
(c) the several weeks that they would have to move out of the house, for the insulation work to be undertaken).

Add that, to the
(d) loss that you are making (if you sell the place, the buyer will definitely learn - or notice- it, and ask for a rebate). Add also the
(e) value that you are losing --if you are in a house and want to raise one more level, you might be forced then to adhere to the normative and build 30 cm back....) All that gives you an idea of the value that your signature has -for them, and for you.

*if you have ever been at SBS (Oxford Univs), you will probably have noticed the massive conceptual mistakes on the architectural design...but that's another story :-)

Last edited by Izzt89; 01.03.2021 at 16:24.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Izzt89 for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 01.03.2021, 16:10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: zh
Posts: 450
Groaned at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 134 Times in 78 Posts
giff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeable
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
OP - what did they actually build?

Are we talking major increase in property size, multiple floors etc, or just a conservatory or similar?

Obviously any compensation has to make it worth their while not to just fix it or rebuild.
They moved one wall (the one towards us) 1.6m (that was the plan, in practice it's 1.8) out over the two floors, gaining a larger bedroom and bathroom.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01.03.2021, 16:22
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,946
Groaned at 294 Times in 198 Posts
Thanked 19,002 Times in 7,991 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
They moved one wall (the one towards us) 1.6m (that was the plan, in practice it's 1.8) out over the two floors, gaining a larger bedroom and bathroom.
don't accept it. it is not you creating bad relations with the neighbours, it is them trying to f--k you over. i don't know what deadlines there are for lodging complaints, but if i were you, i'd find out and make sure you are in time to make them move it back. (or pay you, say, $300k in compensation).

it's a bloody cheek that they come and pressure you to sign immediately. just for that, i would make it as painful for them as possible.

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 01.03.2021 at 16:47.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 01.03.2021, 16:38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: zh
Posts: 450
Groaned at 18 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 134 Times in 78 Posts
giff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeablegiff is considered knowledgeable
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
it's a bloody cheek that they come and pressure you to sign immediately. just for that, i would make it as painful for them as possible.
For sure I am buying time for the whole month.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank giff for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 01.03.2021, 16:48
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,946
Groaned at 294 Times in 198 Posts
Thanked 19,002 Times in 7,991 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
For sure I am buying time for the whole month.
it's probably also a cautionary tale in not giving an inch. had you kicked up the fuss about the shed, i'm sure this 'mistake' wouldn't have happened or that they wouldn't have come to you to sign away your rights for nothing.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 01.03.2021, 19:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 11,314
Groaned at 399 Times in 325 Posts
Thanked 17,298 Times in 8,749 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Neighbors built too close to our property

Quote:
View Post
For sure I am buying time for the whole month.
Tell them you're not signing anything if it's against Swiss regulations. Simples. Not even for those 20 cm.

Seriously now, they shouldn't have put this pressure on you. It's not you who should feel guilty. If this didn't happen in CH where every single detail counts and people follow rules without ever questioning them, maybe you could be more understanding.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are we being bad neighbors? Nocando Housing in general 96 01.07.2020 18:58
Canyoning club close to ZŁrich (or not so close ;) ) andresoide Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 2 15.06.2017 10:33
complaining neighbors Tigist Daily life 37 17.10.2016 12:08
Need some advice on new neighbors lmerkel Daily life 14 12.04.2012 01:31
Meeting the neighbors Workingmom Daily life 14 11.10.2011 14:00


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0