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-   -   Proportionality of wage/work (https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-life/303168-proportionality-wage-work.html)

Talk to you later 15.03.2021 17:31

Proportionality of wage/work
 
Made up numbers to explain the situation my friend is facing!

Let us say that my friend works 4 days a week and earns CHF400, so basically CHF100 per day.

Boss asks my friend if he is willing to work 5 days a week. Friend says, yes. The next day, the boss comes with the contract, but the wage is shown as CHF470 for the week!!!!

If he starts working 5 days a week, he should earn a minimum CHF500 per week based on his current wages! If my friend accepts the offer then he is basically taking a pay cut!

What would your advice be to my friend?

Spaceghost 15.03.2021 17:35

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Depends on the role though - maybe a 5 day job would have other perks like more holidays, better pension etc which balance out purely the base salary figure being quoted.

Also maybe with 5 days he'll work say 42 hours a week vs 4 days of 4 x10 hour days ( so it's not an exact multiple) - there could be more to it.

Talk to you later 15.03.2021 17:37

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceghost (Post 3285920)
Depends on the role though - maybe a 5 day job would have other perks like more holidays, better pension etc which balance out purely the base salary figure being quoted.

Also maybe with 5 days he'll work say 42 hours a week vs 4 days of 4 x10 hour days ( so it's not an exact multiple) - there could be more to it.


Everything is exactly the same, the hours worked per day I mean. No extra perks. Role has not changed either, just more work!!!!

Spaceghost 15.03.2021 17:40

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Then i'd be going back to the employer asking why its lower for sure and asking for the higher 5 day rate.

komsomolez 15.03.2021 17:41

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
My wife has had several changes from 80% to 100% and back. There was never a discussion of the 100% salary being anything else than exactly 25% higher than the salary for 80%.

One thing to keep in mind is also whether this is longer days, or an additional day per week. If you extend your hours per day, you don't have higher cost of commuting. If you come in one additional day, you do.

fatmanfilms 15.03.2021 17:42

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceghost (Post 3285925)
Then i'd be going back to the employer asking why its lower for sure and asking for the higher 5 day rate.

Bulk discount :D

Talk to you later 15.03.2021 17:46

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3285926)
My wife has had several changes from 80% to 100% and back. There was never a discussion of the 100% salary being anything else than exactly 25% higher than the salary for 80%.


Don't you mean 20%?


Quote:

One thing to keep in mind is also whether this is longer days, or an additional day per week. If you extend your hours per day, you don't have higher cost of commuting. If you come in one additional day, you do.
Exactly one additional day.

Talk to you later 15.03.2021 17:47

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3285927)
Bulk discount :D


Actually this was the reason for the thread, I thought maybe there is some Swiss bulk discount wages rule thing :D

gipfelisturmer 15.03.2021 17:55

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3285929)
Don't you mean 20%?

Nope.
25% of 80% = +20%

Talk to you later 15.03.2021 17:59

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Ok, thanks. I will let you know if my friend loses his job tomorrow!

curley 15.03.2021 18:02

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by komsomolez (Post 3285926)
My wife has had several changes from 80% to 100% and back. There was never a discussion of the 100% salary being anything else than exactly 25% higher than the salary for 80%.

One thing to keep in mind is also whether this is longer days, or an additional day per week. If you extend your hours per day, you don't have higher cost of commuting. If you come in one additional day, you do.

Hmmm, yeah, employees never complain when it's in their favour. No matter how strange the calculation is. :msnsarcastic:

Salaries are offered in 100%. Anyone working less gets the according percentage.

curley 15.03.2021 18:05

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3285935)
Ok, thanks. I will let you know if my friend loses his job tomorrow!

What? Is it work more or not at all?

Talk to you later 15.03.2021 18:12

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 3285937)
What? Is it work more or not at all?

If his boss says that is his final offer, can't give CHF500, and my friend rejects the lower offer, then it could potentially get tricky, no?

Not instant job loss but friend will have to keep his job change options open.

Chuff 15.03.2021 18:15

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3285917)
Made up numbers to explain the situation my friend is facing!

Let us say that my friend works 4 days a week and earns CHF400, so basically CHF100 per day.

Boss asks my friend if he is willing to work 5 days a week. Friend says, yes. The next day, the boss comes with the contract, but the wage is shown as CHF470 for the week!!!!

If he starts working 5 days a week, he should earn a minimum CHF500 per week based on his current wages! If my friend accepts the offer then he is basically taking a pay cut!

What would your advice be to my friend?

I mean really... isn't the answer to this completely obvious... that they should ask their boss why it is 30chf lower and ask for it to be the full 500chf? I mean if you can't advise your friend of something so simple as to ask his boss for an explanation then that's a little surprising. They just need to discuss it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3285941)
If his boss says that is his final offer, can't give CHF500, and my friend rejects the lower offer, then it could potentially get tricky, no?

Not instant job loss but friend will have to keep his job change options open.

Without knowing the actual figure involved it's hard to say how much of a big deal this is. Obviously 470chf vs 500chf per week may not be such a big deal to an employer, but 2k vs 2.5k probably is.

Axa 15.03.2021 18:35

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
There are no simple answers to complicate situations :D

B permits come along withheld income tax. When you earn more, you also go up in the cantonal tax brackets and pay a higher percentage of tax, thus....the net income per hour goes down. So, is your friend talking about nettolohn or bruttolohn?

Next, what kind of boss? Is your friend employed directly by the business or via an employment agency? Weekly salary sounds like an employment agency which may or may not take a larger cut for longer working hours.

One thing to remember, your friend will earn as good as he's able to negotiate. I've seen people talked into steep discounts to save the business during covid time......and people say yes :(

Landers 15.03.2021 18:35

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Your friend is free to decide how much the extra day is worth but as others have said, in general it should be 25% more if he works the same hours each day.

Sinking 15.03.2021 18:49

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3285942)
I mean really... isn't the answer to this completely obvious... that they should ask their boss why it is 30chf lower and ask for it to be the full 500chf? I mean if you can't advise your friend of something so simple as to ask his boss for an explanation then that's a little surprising. They just need to discuss it.



Without knowing the actual figure involved it's hard to say how much of a big deal this is. Obviously 470chf vs 500chf per week may not be such a big deal to an employer, but 2k vs 2.5k probably is.

Agreed, difficult without an actual figure. It depends how much salary is at 80%. If we are talking 50'000 is one thing, if we are talking 150'000 is a whole new story (as others have pointed out, deductions, etc. will increase considerably on the employer side).

Talk to you later 15.03.2021 18:52

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3285942)
I mean really... isn't the answer to this completely obvious... that they should ask their boss why it is 30chf lower and ask for it to be the full 500chf? I mean if you can't advise your friend of something so simple as to ask his boss for an explanation then that's a little surprising. They just need to discuss it.

I already advised my friend the obvious. It was on Friday that his boss spoke with him, my friend used the weekend to analyse the numbers and tomorrow he will talk to the boss. The point is that-

a. We are living in Corona times.
b. The boss indirectly told him that it is the best he can offer him.
c. Boss thinks that my friend per month will get more money, so he is somehow doing him a favour, even though per hour my friend will earn less!!!!

Quote:

Without knowing the actual figure involved it's hard to say how much of a big deal this is. Obviously 470chf vs 500chf per week may not be such a big deal to an employer, but 2k vs 2.5k probably is.
Yes, which I can't reveal for obvious reasons. The new contract if he takes would mean that he works 8hrs per month for free (technically), when compared with current wages.

Murloc 15.03.2021 18:58

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
i would refuse, but the boss can give notice of course. He can also ask to take a pay cut or else anyway. So i don't see the point in just accepting a per-hour pay cut.
If he wants him to work more hours it's because he knows how much an extra employee costs in terms of overhead, training, risk etc. so i would negotiate the wage to its correct level. Asking such a thing is non-standard and taking the piss really.

Talk to you later 15.03.2021 19:05

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Ok, I am satisfied that the advice I gave my friend was good. Meaning he should get per hour exactly the same or more but definitely not less (all other things being equal).

I Whatsapped him just now and told him to stick with the plan.

Urs Max 15.03.2021 21:07

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3285948)
Your friend is free to decide how much the extra day is worth but as others have said, in general it should be 25% more if he works the same hours each day.

That's the common way, but economically the difference should be significantly bigger, both when working more and when working less.

Any job comes with tasks that take a mostly unchangeable amount of time, team meetings for instance. As a result, the productive time (where people can actually produce) is reduced/increased by more than the contractual hours change. Likewise with certain costs a job causes, your desk for instance costs the same whether you work four or five days, this reduces the employee's profitability further when the hours worked are reduced.

TTYL's friend makes a good enough job to warrant suggesting an increase in the hours worked. Not only should that result in at least 25% increase, it's also good argumentative ammo to bargain for an actual pay increase. A paycut per hour worked seems to run completely against all logic.

Landers 15.03.2021 21:29

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 3285994)
A paycut per hour worked seems to run completely against all logic.


You can argue it either way. There are certain fixed costs involved with having a job and if these fixed costs are already covered by 4 days work you don't need as much income for the 5th day. In the end it's supply and demand and an opportunity to negotiate, for both sides.

Phil_MCR 15.03.2021 21:50

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
accept the job working 4.7 days a week :D

NotAllThere 16.03.2021 08:42

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
I went from a 50% job to 100% (same employer obv.). A drop of (made up figures) 1000 a day to 850 a day. (My example earns more than yours!)

The reason was the absolute cost of employment. Essentially, I was being paid at a premium rate when I was on 50%. There's no way they could pay 1000 a day 260 days a year. It was all very amicable and negotiated. I'm happy with what we agreed on.

So really it depends on the actual salary, the work involved and whether the parttime rate is in fact rather generous.

kri 16.03.2021 08:54

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Usually companies make offers based on a 100% salary and reduce accordingly if you work 80%.

Some allowances however are at times a fixed amount, example a company which would subsides health insurance or give a car allowance.

So it's usually base pay only that follows the % rules and other things may or not.

If in your case you are talking total pay, have a look at the details. If its base pay only, then indeed from 80 to 100% (i.e. 4 to 5 days a week) the increase should be 25%.

Talk to you later 16.03.2021 09:12

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
I think my friend deserves the same rate as he is getting now. We are not talking sums that the boss can't give or my friend does not rightly deserve. Yes all calculations get based on 100% wage.

My friend has been loyal to the company through ups and downs for years. He is not on premium wages. They actually would even take him back 100%, but my friend had reduced in the past for work-life balance reasons.

There is other sly stuff that the boss has slipped into the contract which is not right from employee rights point of view. I have advised my friend to look for a new job no matter what the outcome.

fatmanfilms 16.03.2021 09:33

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Talk to you later (Post 3286088)
I think my friend deserves the same rate as he is getting now. We are not talking sums that the boss can't give or my friend does not rightly deserve. Yes all calculations get based on 100% wage.

My friend has been loyal to the company through ups and downs for years. He is not on premium wages. They actually would even take him back 100%, but my friend had reduced in the past for work-life balance reasons.

There is other sly stuff that the boss has slipped into the contract which is not right from employee rights point of view. I have advised my friend to look for a new job no matter what the outcome.

Being 'loyal' is the problem here, unfortunately it seldom pays off.

Talk to you later 16.03.2021 12:29

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
I bring news!

My friend called me at lunchtime and said that the boss tried the "bulk purchase" line. My friend did not budge and got the correct per hour rate!

NotAllThere 16.03.2021 13:57

Re: Proportionality of wage/work
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3286098)
Being 'loyal' is the problem here, unfortunately it seldom pays off.

I told the IT director at once place I worked, that I am as loyal to the company exactly as much as the company is loyal to me. He was shocked - he felt employees should be grateful that they've been given a job. I was a bit surprised and he was quite a good person to work for.


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