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Old 27.08.2021, 19:08
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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That sounds nice. But according to admin.ch, there were only 2938 refugees accepted in Switzerland (page 29) and this from 2011 until end of 2020! (page 28 gives it by year).

That's 2938 within 9 years. Most asylum seekers from Afghanistan are rejected. Because they can't be sent home, they are left to hang out on a N-permit with no perspectives and thanks to Schengen no possibility to try finding a home in an other European country.

So who is theconversation.com? A chit-chat group?
Well, crap. I can't argue those statistics considering their origin. 3,000 is about the size of a country village.

According to the below statistics, 12,501 refugees from Afghanistan were in the process of being accepted as refugees in Switzerland as of July 31, 2021. You are welcome to dispute those statistics if possible.

https://de.statista.com/statistik/da...unftslaendern/

Swissinfo used the above statistics for their article regarding Afghanistan refugees in Switzerland and how it has created a division of opinion in Switzerland; much like on EF.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzer...ugees/46896730

Some excerpts from the above article:
Already by the end of 2020 there were 2.6 million registered Afghan refugees worldwide, meaning that more than one in ten refugees is Afghan, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCRExternal link). They are mainly in neighbouring Pakistan and Iran, but there are also over 300,000 Afghan refugees on European soil.

Afghanistan has for years been one of the main countries of origin of asylum seekers arriving in Switzerland, as elsewhere in Europe. In July, 12,500 Afghans were in the asylum process, according to the Swiss State Secretariat for Migration (SEM).

Over the past 25 years, more than 26,000 asylum applications have been filed in Switzerland by Afghan nationals. Around 1,500 individuals were deported after their appeals were rejected, most of them to countries other than Afghanistan (third countries or Dublin States) and 80 to Afghanistan. No one was ever sent back to Afghanistan while the Taliban were in power in the 1990s.

For those against permitting large groups of refugees from Afghanistan to enter Switzerland, the Bundesrat seems to agree with you. 230 more refugees who have worked directly with Switzerland will be allowed to enter but there are no other plans.

Meanwhile, the few refugees I know personally are continuing to learn and work in order to make a decent living in Switzerland. Their road is a hard one but they know they are the lucky ones.
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Old 27.08.2021, 19:36
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Which is why he makes no claims to that end.
His point is the absurdity of Afghans claiming asylum in western Europe while others go there for holidays. The two simply don't add up, they're mutually exclusive. It's the same with e.g. Eritrean and Ethyopian "refugees" here.
Imagine you are an Afghan expat working as a VP in a big Swiss bank, why would you not take holidays where you want to.

There is an FB group "Afghans in Switzerland" which seems to have plenty of non-refugees.
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Old 27.08.2021, 20:28
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Well, crap. I can't argue those statistics considering their origin. 3,000 is about the size of a country village.

According to the below statistics, 12,501 refugees from Afghanistan were in the process of being accepted as refugees in Switzerland as of July 31, 2021. You are welcome to dispute those statistics if possible.

https://de.statista.com/statistik/da...unftslaendern/

Swissinfo used the above statistics for their article regarding Afghanistan refugees in Switzerland and how it has created a division of opinion in Switzerland; much like on EF.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzer...ugees/46896730

Some excerpts from the above article:
Already by the end of 2020 there were 2.6 million registered Afghan refugees worldwide, meaning that more than one in ten refugees is Afghan, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCRExternal link). They are mainly in neighbouring Pakistan and Iran, but there are also over 300,000 Afghan refugees on European soil.

Afghanistan has for years been one of the main countries of origin of asylum seekers arriving in Switzerland, as elsewhere in Europe. In July, 12,500 Afghans were in the asylum process, according to the Swiss State Secretariat for Migration (SEM).

Over the past 25 years, more than 26,000 asylum applications have been filed in Switzerland by Afghan nationals. Around 1,500 individuals were deported after their appeals were rejected, most of them to countries other than Afghanistan (third countries or Dublin States) and 80 to Afghanistan. No one was ever sent back to Afghanistan while the Taliban were in power in the 1990s.

For those against permitting large groups of refugees from Afghanistan to enter Switzerland, the Bundesrat seems to agree with you. 230 more refugees who have worked directly with Switzerland will be allowed to enter but there are no other plans.

Meanwhile, the few refugees I know personally are continuing to learn and work in order to make a decent living in Switzerland. Their road is a hard one but they know they are the lucky ones.
No disrespect to you but do you understand that CH is the most racist country in Europe when it comes to immigration and accepting people from outside ?

I don't mean people who has a job and can make documents, just people who has nothing in their life.
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Old 27.08.2021, 20:34
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

Racist? CH is not racist at all. And never ever refused any saudi arabia prince, middle east princes and princesses, sultans of brunei, african presidents with gold reserves and so on..
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Old 27.08.2021, 20:56
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Racist? CH is not racist at all. And never ever refused any saudi arabia prince, middle east princes and princesses, sultans of brunei, african presidents with gold reserves and so on..
good point!
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Old 27.08.2021, 20:58
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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No disrespect to you but do you understand that CH is the most racist country in Europe when it comes to immigration and accepting people from outside ?

I don't mean people who has a job and can make documents, just people who has nothing in their life.
What's the rule to measure racism?

Police going too hard on some people? No. Beatings in the street of people of slightly different skin color? No. Denied access to restaurants, clubs? Nein.

As a milk coffee skin guy, after several years around in Europe I've only had 2 racist incidents. Once in Zakynthos (Greece) when they let board a lot of people into the plane and only asked for passport to me. I made a nice scene while telling no documents check within Schengen and the easyjet employees backed off.

The other one was in Switzerland and was much more funny. A take away restaurant employee told me the food I just ordered contained pork and that my drink contained alcohol. The funny thing is that the racist was a Muslim, profiled me and assumed I was a Muslim too, so he was helping me to avoid a couple of mistakes. Poor thing.

Albeit, I recognize the decrease in racism must be a very recent change, 10-20 years max. Foreign work colleagues of a certain age 50-60 YO are somehow traumatized and sour. They must have endured a lot, or they have a thin skin. Not sure what, but that generation has something weird.
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Old 27.08.2021, 21:10
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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No disrespect to you but do you understand that CH is the most racist country in Europe when it comes to immigration and accepting people from outside ?

I don't mean people who has a job and can make documents, just people who has nothing in their life.
Switzerland is a small country that has dealt with multiple waves of refugees flooding the country. We had the ex-Yugoslavians in the 90s, which resulted in classrooms filled with more than 50% of migrant children. A result of this wave was the minaret initiative, which banned any future construction of minarets. Paradoxically, the outcome allowed the Swiss to better accept the Muslim culture and resulted in mosques being found in even the smallest of villages.

As for racism, I certainly wouldn't say this country is one of the most racist in the world. Almost 40% of the population comes from a migrant background so the chances of your neighbours being foreigners are quite high. I assume you are also a migrant/expat as well, so consider yourself one of the 40%. Most migrants here earn a decent living and enjoy the safety of the country and the education system for their children. Many enjoy the best of both worlds, heading back to their homeland every chance they get. Much like many posters here.

You'll find racism here much like you'll find it in many other countries in the world. Perhaps because you're a foreigner here, you're far more sensitive to it.

The below is taken from: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home...on-status.html


In 2019, about 38% of the permanent resident population has a migration background (2,722,000). More than a third of this population (992,000) has Swiss nationality. Four-fifths of the persons with a migration background belong to the first generation (2,202,000). The remaining fifth was born in Switzerland and is thus part of the second generation (520,000).
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Old 27.08.2021, 21:24
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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So that's your cover for making veiled threats of physical intimidation towards another forum member? That would get you thrown off any decent forum for being a stalker.
Nothing veiled about the threats. Looks like this is the new normal on EF though
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Old 27.08.2021, 21:38
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Racist? CH is not racist at all. And never ever refused any saudi arabia prince, middle east princes and princesses, sultans of brunei, african presidents with gold reserves and so on..
And yet, you managed to get in as well.

Edit: The irony of expats complaining about migrants and refugees in Switzerland is mind-boggling, especially when I can remember the pre-Schengen days when there were only a limited number of English native-speaking expats here.
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Old 27.08.2021, 21:54
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Edit: The irony of expats complaining about migrants and refugees in Switzerland is mind-boggling, especially when I can remember the pre-Schengen days when there were only a limited number of English native-speaking expats here.
If statistics showed that whatever migrant nationality were net economic contributors , had lower than average propensity to commit crime (especially violent crime) , held liberal views about folks not like them and demonstrated high likelihood for good integration then I certainly would welcome such people.

You were furnished with statistics demonstrating that this was very much not the case with Afghanis but you chose to express a view that you knew better.
That's on you.
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Old 27.08.2021, 22:02
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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If statistics showed that whatever migrant nationality were net economic contributors , had lower than average propensity to commit crime (especially violent crime) , held liberal views about folks not like them and demonstrated high likelihood for good integration then I certainly would welcome such people.

You were furnished with statistics demonstrating that this was very much not the case with Afghanis but you chose to express a view that you knew better.
That's on you.
I did not see those statistics. Please provide them again.
By the way, your views are FAR from liberal and I certainly can't assess if you've integrated well or if you can speak the language adequately so even you may not even meet your own requirements.
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Old 27.08.2021, 22:27
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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I did not see those statistics. Please provide them again.
That is not true - you commented upon them - here is just one [/QUOTE]

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By the way, your views are FAR from liberal
You really should open a book or two before you use words you clearly don't understand :

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Drawing on ideas of Adam Smith, classical liberals believed that it is in the common interest that all individuals be able to secure their own economic self-interest.[12] They were critical of what would come to be the idea of the welfare state as interfering in a free market.[13]
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and I certainly can't assess if you've integrated well or if you can speak the language adequately so even you may not even meet your own requirements.
That's fine - only those who live around me are in a correct position to guage if I have done so and I am happy to let them do so - because it is in their economic best interest to only admit people who add more than they consume and I trust others to act in their economic best interests - just as for example Afghans passing through multiple safe countries where they stand far better chances of integration telling lies to Swiss authorities in order to come here - or teachers talking of "empathy" about such people in the knowledge that allowing this nonsense to continue will drive up demand for their services.
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Old 27.08.2021, 22:31
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

The key words are "Among Muslims who say that Sharia should be the law of the land....". This is not representative of Muslims as a whole.

Sorry, try again.
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Old 27.08.2021, 22:34
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

Pardon my ignorance but maybe somebody who's more attuned to the issue may shed some light on the topic. Why isn't it possible for these Afghans to just move to a bordering "Stan" country?
If hell would break loose in Switzerland, I wouldn't think of moving to Tahiti or Bangladesh, I would try my luck in a nearby country, i.e. Germany or Thurgau.
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Old 27.08.2021, 22:37
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Which is why he makes no claims to that end.
His point is the absurdity of Afghans claiming asylum in western Europe while others go there for holidays. The two simply don't add up, they're mutually exclusive. It's the same with e.g. Eritrean and Ethyopian "refugees" here.
It really isn't mutually exclusive. Political situations change. Minorities may be persecuted in one part of the country but not another. Kabul was relatively safe, and the sudden Taliban took far less time than anticipated. It can also be safe to visit a country, but quite dangerous to stay very long.
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Old 27.08.2021, 22:41
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Pardon my ignorance but maybe somebody who's more attuned to the issue may shed some light on the topic. Why isn't it possible for these Afghans to just move to a bordering "Stan" country?
If hell would break loose in Switzerland, I wouldn't think of moving to Tahiti or Bangladesh, I would try my luck in a nearby country, i.e. Germany or Thurgau.
Pakistan is heaving with Afghans. Iran as well.

Taken from Swissinfo: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzer...ugees/46896730

Already by the end of 2020 there were 2.6 million registered Afghan refugees worldwide, meaning that more than one in ten refugees is Afghan, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCRExternal link). They are mainly in neighbouring Pakistan and Iran, but there are also over 300,000 Afghan refugees on European soil.
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Old 27.08.2021, 22:42
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Pardon my ignorance but maybe somebody who's more attuned to the issue may shed some light on the topic. Why isn't it possible for these Afghans to just move to a bordering "Stan" country?
If hell would break loose in Switzerland, I wouldn't think of moving to Tahiti or Bangladesh, I would try my luck in a nearby country, i.e. Germany or Thurgau.
Asking that question is not politically correct. As western societies, we need to take a certain amount of refugees to stop our feelings of guilt for bad things happening in the world.

Once we have done that, we can go back to our daily business, turn a blind eye, stop caring about the remaining 99.9% of the population that couldn't escape, and focus on the next tragedy somewhere else in the world.

Sad but true and not something to be proud of.
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Old 27.08.2021, 22:45
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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If statistics showed that whatever migrant nationality were net economic contributors , had lower than average propensity to commit crime (especially violent crime) , held liberal views about folks not like them and demonstrated high likelihood for good integration then I certainly would welcome such people.

You were furnished with statistics demonstrating that this was very much not the case with Afghanis but you chose to express a view that you knew better.
That's on you.
The numbers are there. Nombre de condamnations pénales en Suisse par nationalité https://www.swissinfo.ch/fre/societe...monde/46255492

Surprised to see that my fellow country people that arrive here have a lower conviction rate than the Swiss, Germans, Italians and French. Come on, hand me the country keys, I will take care of it

Beyond that, I can just say that if Afghanistan citizens are risky, well there other immigrants with higher conviction rates. Some of them are always crying about being mistreated and if I write the numbers and country I'll be called a bad racist guy.

PS. parnell. Talk is cheap, surveys are meaningless, actions matter. So, the numbers that count are people leaving the courthouse with a conviction.
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Old 27.08.2021, 22:50
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

It is uncomparable the Yugoslav refugees from the 90s and todays refugees from Syria or Afghanistan.

The civilian muslim population in Yugoslavia was unarmed and literally slaughtered by para-army equiped with latest weapons. They couldn't defend themselves, unlike the Afghan people who had all the weapons in the world. In many instances they were killed by their closest friends or even families just because they were suddenly different religion.

The Yugoslav refugees were all women and children. Compare the two pictures of what refugees looked back than and what "refugees" look now:



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Old 27.08.2021, 22:57
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

Interestingly enough, it may be the Balkans that will provide a safe corridor for the Afghans coming to Europe.

https://www.euronews.com/2021/08/24/...backwater-view
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