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  #141  
Old 28.08.2021, 18:56
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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I contend that I'm not biased - but I'm open to the possibility - are you ??

Finding statistics to form one view or another is simply determination to find the truth other than your anecdotal "I know an Afghan lad" effort. It also is far better in terms of understanding group dynamics.

I note that you are unable to answer my question on whether or not you accept "Afghans stand a much better chance of integrating in Pakistan or Tajikstan as LiB mentioned - and at far lower cost to all parties - than they do here." - Why is that since I have shown you sufficient respect to answer your questions and have refrained from personally insulting you.
Well, of course, "Afghans stand a much better chance of integrating in Pakistan or ..." but the simple reality is if you live in Kabul and all the exit roads have armed Taliban checkpoints then your only possibility to get out is by a flight to anywhere.

Afghans who live near the border are pouring across; Up to half a million Afghans could flee the crisis in their homeland, the U.N. refugee agency UNHCR said on yesterday,
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  #142  
Old 28.08.2021, 21:41
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Islam is not a race. So you had only one racist incident.
Because I'm a brown guy with a beard. Another brown guy with a beard imposes his prejudice on me and assumes I'm just like him. Don't care about the good attitude, the issue is giving more importance to your prejudices that the person you're interacting with.
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  #143  
Old 29.08.2021, 00:08
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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What these figures miss is the analysis of the type of crime.

If, as a wild example, one type of crime was entering the country illegally then maybe 100% of the refugees would be guilty.
In Swiss statistics, Kriminalität/criminality in the strict sense is limited to acts against the StrafGesetzBuch, against criminal law. Another important, but separate, sector is drug laws. Laws on foreigners are what you allude to, they're shown as a separate group of their own, too. These three are usually shown separate, in no small part because of the problem you point out.

Now, I'm not sure if that's the case but I'd expect this to be international usage as it allows at lest for comparisons at a high abstraction level.

As for the Swissinfo article linked by Axa: see the table headlined with
"Nombre de condamnations pénales en Suisse par nationalité"
that's criminal code verdicts only (pénal -> penal code).

As for potentially distorting the Finnish numbers by a few superserialcriminals, that applies to all nationalities, citizens as well as foreigners.

Last edited by Urs Max; 29.08.2021 at 00:21.
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  #144  
Old 29.08.2021, 14:47
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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In Swiss statistics, Kriminalität/criminality in the strict sense is limited to acts against the StrafGesetzBuch, against criminal law. Another important, but separate, sector is drug laws. Laws on foreigners are what you allude to, they're shown as a separate group of their own, too. These three are usually shown separate, in no small part because of the problem you point out.

Now, I'm not sure if that's the case but I'd expect this to be international usage as it allows at lest for comparisons at a high abstraction level.

As for the Swissinfo article linked by Axa: see the table headlined with
"Nombre de condamnations pénales en Suisse par nationalité"
that's criminal code verdicts only (pénal -> penal code).

As for potentially distorting the Finnish numbers by a few superserialcriminals, that applies to all nationalities, citizens as well as foreigners.
Anyway, if the penal conviction rate of Afghans is too high, a third or even a half of EF members would have never been accepted in CH.
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  #145  
Old 29.08.2021, 21:01
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Anyway, if the penal conviction rate of Afghans is too high, a third or even a half of EF members would have never been accepted in CH.
Perhaps (can't be bothered to check their conviction rates), if they're representative for their population.

Which they're virtually guaranteed not to be.
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  #146  
Old 29.08.2021, 21:59
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Perhaps (can't be bothered to check their conviction rates), if they're representative for their population.

Which they're virtually guaranteed not to be.
OK I like the way this is going as it means we can actually test Axa's hypothesis - with apologies to any nationalities on the board I might miss out or any errors I might make transcribing the data here it is :
Conviction rates per 100,000 inhabitants
CH 2.62
UK 1.23
CZ 4.32
PT 6.13
US 1.37
LK 8.71
TH 3.83
SE 1.61
IE 2.31
MX 2.27
PK 8.08
PL 2.53
FR 3.54
GR 2.81
IN 0.89
HU 3.09
IQ 11.88
IR 4.47
IT 3.97
BG 4.65
CN 1.25
ES 4.76
CU 11.25
EX-YUGO 7.59
AF 7.81
DE 2.39
BR 9.67
AT 2.15
SW AF 30.04
SE AF 17.62
W AF 21.71
EAST AF 11.85
NORTH AF 16.47
AL 8.21
BO 10.26
CL 12.71
CN 1.16
JM 20.55
MY 5.31
MN 8.31
PH 4.79
TR 9.39
YE 17.73
EC 11.14

So if 1/3 or 1/2 of EF is from countries with a score above 7.81 then he's right. Would it be possible for a mod to run a statistical breakdown of registered members to check if this is indeed the case? thx
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  #147  
Old 29.08.2021, 22:01
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

What is really interesting is the difference in conviction rates between nationalities from neighbouring countries - Pakistan at 8.08, Sri Lanka at 8.71 vs India at 0.89 (respect!)
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  #148  
Old 29.08.2021, 23:42
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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What is really interesting is the difference in conviction rates between nationalities from neighbouring countries - Pakistan at 8.08, Sri Lanka at 8.71 vs India at 0.89 (respect!)
People from Sri Lanka will have a high proportion of refugess (plus 2nd generation), which are virtually by definition poor.
Indians will almost exclusively have come for work, which points to high(er) income.
No idea about Pakistanis.

What you'll also need to consider is their age. The younger will be more prone to criminality than the older. This also works against refugees, immigrating academics will be in their late 20ies or older.

Distribution among the sexes is a third point. Again, refugees (at least from the Near and Middle East) will probably have a higher share of males than professionals who come for work. Just think of the US airplane out of Kabul with ~600 Afghanis in the cargo hold, the vast majority looked like males younger than 40.

In short: those percentages seem pretty useless.
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  #149  
Old 04.09.2021, 09:25
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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This is something that isn't being reported too much in the media. Why have there been so many Afghans with European passports (UK, German, French etc.) caught in the land that the vast majority have claimed asylum from? These are important questions that should be asked!
An example of this was reported in the Mirror.

Afghan refugee who claimed asylum in 2010, granted UK citizenship in 2015, went back to Afghanistan to select a wife, caught in Kabul as the Taliban captured the city, rescued by the UK and now complaining he has to carry out mandatary Covid quarantine

Whatever one thinks about Afghan refugees, it's definitely not a black and white issue!!!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...udent-24906455
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  #150  
Old 01.12.2021, 16:07
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

The female oppression in Afghanistan continues. Girls can go to school until the sixth grade and then they’re banned from further learning. All those women who have been studying to be doctors, dentists, teachers, etc have been expelled from their studies… for being a woman.

The rebellion must come from within the country as nothing else seems to work.
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  #151  
Old 01.12.2021, 16:22
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

I think the 1st priority should be for foreign intervention & wars to stop

Pilger breaks it down brilliantly
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  #152  
Old 01.12.2021, 17:19
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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I think the 1st priority should be for foreign intervention & wars to stop

Pilger breaks it down brilliantly
I read that with a comma in the middle and got a little confused.
"I think the 1st priority should be for foreign intervention, & wars to stop"
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  #153  
Old 01.12.2021, 17:33
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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An example of this was reported in the Mirror.

Afghan refugee who claimed asylum in 2010, granted UK citizenship in 2015, went back to Afghanistan to select a wife, caught in Kabul as the Taliban captured the city, rescued by the UK and now complaining he has to carry out mandatary Covid quarantine

Whatever one thinks about Afghan refugees, it's definitely not a black and white issue!!!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...udent-24906455
Surely at this point he's just the same as any other UK citizen complaining about quarantine
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  #154  
Old 01.12.2021, 17:57
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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An example of this was reported in the Mirror.

Afghan refugee who claimed asylum in 2010, granted UK citizenship in 2015, went back to Afghanistan to select a wife, caught in Kabul as the Taliban captured the city, rescued by the UK and now complaining he has to carry out mandatary Covid quarantine

Whatever one thinks about Afghan refugees, it's definitely not a black and white issue!!!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...udent-24906455
"it's definitely not a black and white issue!!!" Freudian slip?

Please feel free to explain what your post has to do with "Afghan Refugees in Switzerland".
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  #155  
Old 01.12.2021, 18:14
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

Regarding Afghan Refugees - but in the UK rather than Switzerland - may I recommend

In the Wars by Waheed Arian.

He's a radiologist in the UK. He arrived in the UK age 16 with no qualifications, and was studying at Cambridge 4 years later.

Now there's a boost for the UK medical establishment. Anyone know of a similar occurrence here. If not, what is the UK doing right that CH is doing wrong?
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  #156  
Old 01.12.2021, 19:48
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Re: Afghan Refugees in Switzerland

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Regarding Afghan Refugees - but in the UK rather than Switzerland - may I recommend

In the Wars by Waheed Arian.

He's a radiologist in the UK. He arrived in the UK age 16 with no qualifications, and was studying at Cambridge 4 years later.

Now there's a boost for the UK medical establishment. Anyone know of a similar occurrence here. If not, what is the UK doing right that CH is doing wrong?
There is plenty people that arrived from all over the places - simply nobody wants to go public about where they come from but certainly made their living in CH among most respected professionals . It's just UK/US that most likely want to show "look American Dream is alive" . 100'000 of Balkan war are here - I know serveral doctors and few professors that came here with high-school degree and got where they are.
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