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Old 30.05.2021, 16:00
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

Be aware that there is a very big market in fake wine, especially in the US. Think about it -- it's very easy to print fake labels and to buy identical bottles. The foil enclosures and corks are more tricky and time-consuming but with the value of genuine wine so high, it's well worth the trouble and expense. There are a couple of documentaries on Netflix on the subject. All my valuable wine is still stored by well-known, specialist wine retailers in the UK, or in bonded warehouses. Should I ever want to sell any, buyers can be 100% sure that a) they're genuine and b) they've been stored in optimal conditions. I would never dream of buying an expensive bottle of wine from a private individual who admits to having no interest in the stuff. And even if you can prove you've stored it well, no one knows where and how it's been stored for the 29 years since it was bottled. It could have passed through the hands of numerous owners. I might just risk it for a 50 CHF bottle of something unusual but $4K? No way!!

Something else to think about: why would a client who's willing to hand out $4-5K bottles of wine, do so to someone who clearly has no interest in the stuff? It's the sort of thing a very rich person might do for someone they know to be a collector and connoisseur i.e. someone who would massively appreciate the gesture. If they wanted to be that generous then surely they'd find out what your interests were (guitars, rare books, exotic holidays, high-end tech, whatever) and give you something you'd really value.

As others have said, if you don't want to drink it (and I can understand that sometimes wine gets too valuable to drink!) then first get an expert opinion on it, and I don't mean the friend of a friend who seems to know a bit. Contact Petrus and ask how/if you can tell it's authentic. They should be able to trace the serial number, presuming it has one. Alternatively, talk to a genuine expert e.g. a specialist wine auction house like https://www.steinfelsweine.ch/?lang=en. In fact, an auction is your best bet so go and see the Steinfels people. They'll know more than anything you'll learn on EF. Definitely don't just stick it on Ricardo. You need to find your target market, and a specialist wine auctioneers is the obvious place.
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  #42  
Old 30.05.2021, 17:50
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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I might just risk it for a 50 CHF bottle of something unusual but $4K? No way!!
.
I’d be more generous (something like 400-500 chf) because I rather think that the wine is original than not. But my trust in people backfires me quite often
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Old 30.05.2021, 18:07
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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I’d be more generous (something like 400-500 chf) because I rather think that the wine is original than not. But my trust in people backfires me quite often
Like you, I'm generally too trusting for my own good. But with wine, once you get into 4 figures the chances of being fake increase a lot (especially if buying from a stranger). In reality I wouldn't spend 400-500 CHF on a bottle of wine these days. I've got close to that level in the past when I was part of a wine club in the UK and we would sometimes chip in to collectively buy something very rare. But I can't justify that sort of expense these days. You can buy very good wines for 15-20 CHF and if you have the self-discipline to stick them in the Keller and forget about them while you dig out the ones you put in there 2,3,5 years ago you can have a ready supply of very good wine. Even pretty modest Rhone wines, Rioja and mid-range Italian reds will improve immeasurably with a few years of additional bottle age. I'm more interested in drinking the stuff now than seeking out rare bottles.
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  #44  
Old 30.05.2021, 18:16
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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Be aware that there is a very big market in fake wine, especially in the US. Think about it -- it's very easy to print fake labels and to buy identical bottles. The foil enclosures and corks are more tricky and time-consuming but with the value of genuine wine so high, it's well worth the trouble and expense.
This is why companies are now exploring with us how to mark their bottles inside and put covert markings on the labels and corks. Same with the whisky folks. We have our ways...
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  #45  
Old 30.05.2021, 23:25
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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Like you, I'm generally too trusting for my own good. But with wine, once you get into 4 figures the chances of being fake increase a lot (especially if buying from a stranger). In reality I wouldn't spend 400-500 CHF on a bottle of wine these days. I've got close to that level in the past when I was part of a wine club in the UK and we would sometimes chip in to collectively buy something very rare. But I can't justify that sort of expense these days. You can buy very good wines for 15-20 CHF and if you have the self-discipline to stick them in the Keller and forget about them while you dig out the ones you put in there 2,3,5 years ago you can have a ready supply of very good wine. Even pretty modest Rhone wines, Rioja and mid-range Italian reds will improve immeasurably with a few years of additional bottle age. I'm more interested in drinking the stuff now than seeking out rare bottles.
Agree, no wine worth several hundreds (not to say thousands), if we talk about the taste. Though if you buy something like Petrus or DRC, you buy a piece of history, art in certain sense.
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  #46  
Old 31.05.2021, 07:13
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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Should I ever want to sell any, buyers can be 100% sure that a) they're genuine and b) they've been stored in optimal conditions. I would never dream of buying an expensive bottle of wine from a private individual who admits to having no interest in the stuff. And even if you can prove you've stored it well, no one knows where and how it's been stored for the 29 years since it was bottled. It could have passed through the hands of numerous owners. I might just risk it for a 50 CHF bottle of something unusual but $4K? No way!!
.
There are a lot of things to look at before trying to sell it on an auction platform e.g. How many owners did it have, how was it stored (professionally not in a home cellar) etc. Otherwise an "expensive wine" is not really valuable if you want to sell it, especially not the random bottle which was probably re-gifted after being re-gifted and kept on a shelf in some cupboard. I mean, c'mon. Anyway, OP can try. Good luck.

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Depp by name - Depp by nature
With a sense of humour though..
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  #47  
Old 31.05.2021, 13:53
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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There are a lot of things to look at before trying to sell it on an auction platform e.g. How many owners did it have, how was it stored (professionally not in a home cellar) etc. Otherwise an "expensive wine" is not really valuable if you want to sell it, especially not the random bottle which was probably re-gifted after being re-gifted and kept on a shelf in some cupboard. I mean, c'mon. Anyway, OP can try. Good luck.
My point was that if you're a serious broker/collector willing to pay $3-4K for a bottle of wine you won't be buying from some bloke on Ricardo. You'll use a specialist wine auction house who'll have experts with a range of means to help gauge authenticity. This protects both buyer and seller. I agree that there's every chance that a bottle like this has been passed around as a high-end gift. Unless thy seller is able to prove where it's been all these years he's very unlikely to get anywhere near the supposed book value.
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  #48  
Old 31.05.2021, 14:09
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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My point was that if you're a serious broker/collector willing to pay $3-4K for a bottle of wine you won't be buying from some bloke on Ricardo. You'll use a specialist wine auction house who'll have experts with a range of means to help gauge authenticity. This protects both buyer and seller. I agree that there's every chance that a bottle like this has been passed around as a high-end gift. Unless thy seller is able to prove where it's been all these years he's very unlikely to get anywhere near the supposed book value.
10% sounds correct at best.

Tom
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  #49  
Old 31.05.2021, 14:26
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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This is why companies are now exploring with us how to mark their bottles inside and put covert markings on the labels and corks. Same with the whisky folks. We have our ways...
The problem is that in wines, as in whiskys, there is a tendency for mega drinks corporations to buy up all the labels that have any value and then eventually set about finding ways to reduce production costs while pushing up prices and hope the drinker won't notice he's paying more for a product that is slowly sliding downhill.

So the people who can afford to put such hi-tech solutions on their bottles are probably the ones you should be avoiding if you like to believe you're still drinking the great stuff before the mainstream discovers it.

Quite besides which, if you can't taste the difference between a 40CHF wine and 4000CHF wine without a computerized label to tell you which is which, then surely you're better off drinking the cheaper version?
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Old 31.05.2021, 14:48
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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The problem is that in wines, as in whiskys, there is a tendency for mega drinks corporations to buy up all the labels that have any value and then eventually set about finding ways to reduce production costs while pushing up prices and hope the drinker won't notice he's paying more for a product that is slowly sliding downhill.....
Yes, but BLOCKCHAIN,.......maaaan
I see now where the next fad is.
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Old 31.05.2021, 15:22
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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With a sense of humour though..
Agree - however, your drinking mates do tend to stifle their squeals of amusement at your silly quips once you start deferring (more fizzy pink plonk, anyone?) the next round…this was explained by a friend
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Old 31.05.2021, 17:03
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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Quite besides which, if you can't taste the difference between a 40CHF wine and 4000CHF wine without a computerized label to tell you which is which, then surely you're better off drinking the cheaper version?
Yes and no. In the price range up to 200 chf you’ll find Pomerol wines with the same score as Petrus and pretty much similar character. And only very limited circle of people (wine critics like Parker), who taste every Petrus vintage since decades, would be able to tell that this is Petrus and not their neighbors.
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Old 01.06.2021, 15:08
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

https://wineauction.ch/

no provenance and the value is much lower.
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Old 01.06.2021, 16:17
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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Indeed Saint-Émilion is a neighbour of Pomerol, however, Petrus has a clay soil, that appears nowhere else in Bordeaux and as such, while Pomerol and Saint-Émilion wines may be difficult to distinguish from one another, Petrus is more unique and easier to distinguish.
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Yes and no. In the price range up to 200 chf you’ll find Pomerol wines with the same score as Petrus and pretty much similar character. And only very limited circle of people (wine critics like Parker), who taste every Petrus vintage since decades, would be able to tell that this is Petrus and not their neighbors.
Well one of you is wrong…
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Old 01.06.2021, 18:23
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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Well one of you is wrong…
Not necessarily. Firstly, he was comparing Pomerol to Saint-Emillion. And then, in practice, even in this comparison, I doubt that a lot of people can feel that clay soil component and distinguish between similar wines.
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Old 01.06.2021, 21:03
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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Not necessarily. Firstly, he was comparing Pomerol to Saint-Emillion. And then, in practice, even in this comparison, I doubt that a lot of people can feel that clay soil component and distinguish between similar wines.
He was saying that Petrus was different to both other Pomerol and St. Emillion. You were saying that Petrus is similar to other Pomerol.
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Old 02.06.2021, 07:21
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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He was saying that Petrus was different to both other Pomerol and St. Emillion. You were saying that Petrus is similar to other Pomerol.

Just to clarify, I have not had the opportunity to try Petrus, I am recounting what I believe is 'common knowledge'. It does, however, make sense, considering the very unique terroir, plus the fact that Petrus is 100% merlot, which is not that common in Pomerol. (There are others, but not many)


Only one way to find out for sure!!!
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Old 02.06.2021, 08:00
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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Just to clarify, I have not had the opportunity to try Petrus, I am recounting what I believe is 'common knowledge'. It does, however, make sense, considering the very unique terroir, plus the fact that Petrus is 100% merlot, which is not that common in Pomerol. (There are others, but not many)


Only one way to find out for sure!!!
If only we knew someone who had a bottle…
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Old 02.06.2021, 10:49
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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If only we knew someone who had a bottle…
I heard that the 1990 vintage is particularly good!
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Old 02.06.2021, 11:01
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Re: How can I sell an expensive bottle of wine?

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Well one of you is wrong…
Considering that 5 out of 9 of my total 'groans' came from Jamon8 (in one thread), I would say that I might be a bit biased as to who is right and who is wrong! (No hard feelings!)
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