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Old 17.06.2021, 23:43
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Cursing in Switzerland

Hello Everyone, I was wondering if some the legal experts on the forum can shed some light on the legality and/or illegality of cursing in Switzerland.

To make a long story short, I let out a couple of expletives at a pediatrician while walking out of his office and clinic. Nothing crazy… Bulls&$% and idiot.

To my surprise, he’s threatened to file criminal changes.

Is this a crime in Switzerland, and I just got myself into a lot of trouble?

Thank you in advance.
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Old 18.06.2021, 00:11
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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Hello Everyone, I was wondering if some the legal experts on the forum can shed some light on the legality and/or illegality of cursing in Switzerland.

To make a long story short, I let out a couple of expletives at a pediatrician while walking out of his office and clinic. Nothing crazyÖ Bulls&$% and idiot.

To my surprise, heís threatened to file criminal changes.

Is this a crime in Switzerland, and I just got myself into a lot of trouble?

Thank you in advance.
Potentially. Were there any witnesses?
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Old 18.06.2021, 00:20
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

Was it a public forum, or just in their office?

It isn't an offense to express your opinion to the doctor or people in his company, even in strong language (unless they're claiming verbal assault, which seems a bit of a stretch).

Most cases of denigrating someone's reputation are much more around continued public attacks or deliberately trying to damage their business, I don't think calling him an idiot one time to a limited audience would pass that threshold.

And the "bullshit" part is not relevant if you were expressing your opinion of the situation rather than the person...
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Old 18.06.2021, 00:22
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

Yes, it is a crime, not very expensive though. However it is up to the attacked person to pursue it meaning it is not very often done.

Insult
Art. 177
1 Any person who attacks the honour of another verbally, in writing, in pictures, through gestures or through acts of aggression is liable on complaint to a monetary penalty not exceeding 90 daily penalty units.194
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Old 18.06.2021, 01:12
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

However - A penalty is waived if the offender has obviously given the offender cause for the offense. It is the same when the abuse is reciprocated immediately.
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Old 18.06.2021, 08:21
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

Thank you for your all your responses.

It was unfortunately as I was walking out of his office and it was witnessed by his secretary and he claims there was someone in the waiting room.

There is arguably provocation, as he is blocking access to my sonís medical record, several instances of disrespect (through actions) and he rudely kicked me out of his office after 2 min. that afternoon for refusing to drop the subject.

I donít really see how he can claim defamation as this an absolutely isolated incident.

Iím lucky I did not say moreÖ
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Old 18.06.2021, 08:26
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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Thank you for your all your responses.

It was unfortunately as I was walking out of his office and it was witnessed by his secretary and he claims there was someone in the waiting room.

There is arguably provocation, as he is blocking access to my sonís medical record, several instances of disrespect (through actions) and he rudely kicked me out of his office after 2 min. that afternoon for refusing to drop the subject.

I donít really see how he can claim defamation as this an absolutely isolated incident.

Iím lucky I did not say moreÖ
You have a right to see your case file, I assume this also applies to parents of minors.

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...endossier.html
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:13
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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I just got myself into a lot of trouble?

Thank you in advance.
Probably not, but why did you have to deal with him this way? I would have left his office and made a formal complaint, see if he had the nerve to deny you a copy of your child's file. Everything in writing, everything officially if you want to be taken seriously.
You let him get to you and incidentally turned him into the victim here...
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:15
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

If he didn't let you see your son's medical file, the doctor may inadvertently be causing himself even more trouble.
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:21
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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If he didn't let you see your son's medical file, the doctor may inadvertently be causing himself even more trouble.
Unless there is a legal reason to block the accessÖ
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:36
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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If he didn't let you see your son's medical file, the doctor may inadvertently be causing himself even more trouble.
Not at all. Children too are covered by the medical secret - and rightly so - including parents. Point 6, German.
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:41
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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Not at all. Children too are covered by the medical secret - and rightly so - including parents. Point 6, German.
That is translated by

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Yes. Provided that the children are capable of judgment. Minors are then also protected by medical confidentiality.
Should know OP's child's age I think.
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:46
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

LOL - I thought this was one of my own threads from the past.

I had the same thing happen to me when I was verbally abused by a hostile SBB train attendant. I finally lost my temper towards the end of the discussion and said "last thing I need today is another f@@*ing a@@h@*e like you".

He seemed almost happy that I said it, and informed me that the police would be waiting for me at the arrival station. I can't tell you how much I panicked - cursing and flipping the bird is natural where I come from and I could not imagine it being illegal. No police actually were arriving at the station, so perhaps it was an empty threat or the cops didn't care.

Long story short, you could get a fine like a ticket (I asked a legal expert who happened to be a friend). Most police will never bother with something like this and the only person to threaten a foreigner with this "crime" is usually the buenzli type.

What can get you into trouble is, if you flip the bird at a car while cycling and then he chooses to physically fight you after, you would be considered the instigator in the situation and insurance may not cover you if you are injured.

In other words, don't stress too much and f@c@ that paediatrician.
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:48
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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What can get you into trouble is if you flip the bird at a car while cycling and then he chooses to physically fight you after, you would be considered the instigator in the situation and insurance may not cover you if you are injured.

In other words, don't stress too much and f@c@ that paediatrician.
Hold on, I can't give people the finger when on the road? How about the old Churchill V for victory?
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:53
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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Hold on, I can't give people the finger when on the road? How about the old Churchill V for victory?
So disappointing isn't it? Still hasn't stopped me now and then. I have always noticed the rather extreme reaction from people when you do it here, so I guess most people are afraid of consequences.
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:55
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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In other words, don't stress too much and f@c@ that paediatrician.
You do stress as a parent. Much more than if it was about you.

@OP,

Have you tried talking to your health insurance provider and/or legal insurance provider?
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:58
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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You do stress as a parent. Much more than if it was about you.

@OP,

Have you tried talking to your health insurance provider and/or legal insurance provider?
Yes I know I am childless so I can't possibly stress, but nothing can happen to OP rather than a small fine.

He should contact his health insurance for the medical records hostage situation as that is illegal.
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Old 18.06.2021, 09:58
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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So disappointing isn't it? Still hasn't stopped me now and then. I have always noticed the rather extreme reaction from people when you do it here, so I guess most people are afraid of consequences.
I've always preferred giving somebody a gesture instead of beeping at them. I find it's more targeted and doesn't annoy the other road users so much. It's a considerate action...
Anyways I'll stop derailing the thread.
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Old 18.06.2021, 10:02
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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YHe should contact his health insurance for the medical records hostage situation as that is illegal.
As curley pointed out, depending on the age and maturity of the child a parent might not have automatic access rights to the child's medical records. This is true in most western countries.
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Old 18.06.2021, 10:04
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Re: Cursing in Switzerland

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I've always preferred giving somebody a gesture instead of beeping at them. I find it's more targeted and doesn't annoy the other road users so much. It's a considerate action...
Anyways I'll stop derailing the thread.
"Sometimes you just got to say WTF"....
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