Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Daily life  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24.06.2021, 10:58
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 11,996
Groaned at 334 Times in 273 Posts
Thanked 22,923 Times in 8,295 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Dead body on Zurich tram...

On Monday a man died on a Zurich tram and nobody recognized it. For six hours!

https://www.20min.ch/story/toter-fae...s-764614997845
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,732
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,638 Times in 8,014 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Your fresh news brought by 20minuten.

OK, I had my daily portion of outrage now I can log out from EF.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:09
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,842
Groaned at 124 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 6,540 Times in 3,624 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

This sort of minding-my-own business attitude. Really sad that nobody reacted just in time
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank jacek for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:12
robBob's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,867
Groaned at 62 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,756 Times in 1,470 Posts
robBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Once read, long ago that some guy died at the office on Monday and was first discovered by the cleaning lady on Saturday. None of his coworkers noticed it for a whole week.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank robBob for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:13
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,842
Groaned at 124 Times in 91 Posts
Thanked 6,540 Times in 3,624 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Quote:
View Post
Once read, long ago that some guy died at the office on Monday and was first discovered by the cleaning lady on Saturday. None of his coworkers noticed it for a whole week.
But when McAffee committed suicide in his cell, it was immediately all over the news
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:14
Sean Connery's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,562
Groaned at 58 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 7,547 Times in 3,386 Posts
Sean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

This story will feature in the Local in about a month.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank Sean Connery for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:26
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,769
Groaned at 522 Times in 414 Posts
Thanked 23,266 Times in 9,400 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

I thought Switzerland had a "Good samaritan" law - in that you are breaking the law if you do not go to the aid of someone in need.
(Why a civilised country needs such a law is another question entirely)

Pretty pointless law really as you could just answer that you didn't notice if questioned by the Police as to why you didn't help.

I guess the truth of the matter is most people are so engrossed in their mobile phones that they have absolutely no idea of what is going on around them.

This story is shocking but also a sad indictment of today's society.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:28
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,046
Groaned at 363 Times in 304 Posts
Thanked 13,872 Times in 6,476 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Also surprised that nobody at his work apparently noticed he wasn´t there?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:29
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,572
Groaned at 284 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 24,693 Times in 10,434 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

If somebody appears to be unresponsive I can understand that nobody wants to get involved. The person might be under influence of substances and the confrontation could turn ugly .

What I don’t understand though is that the driver didn’t notice at the train terminus . It’s part of the drivers job description to walk though the tram at the end of every trip and check nothing is broken , no left luggage etc .

Even if he assumed the dead person was in fact unconscious or in a drug related situation , he should at least have called for help from the police. I would say the driver was in dereliction of his duty . It’s odd that the article tries to portray him as a hero of the situation .

After a passenger informed him of what he should have seen every time he reached a terminus in the last few hours , he finally called the police .
Reply With Quote
The following 11 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:31
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Did anyone broke a law? No. What is legal is ethic, keep walking
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:43
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,769
Groaned at 522 Times in 414 Posts
Thanked 23,266 Times in 9,400 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Quote:
View Post
Did anyone broke a law? No. What is legal is ethic, keep walking
Yes. I should think that pretending you didn't notice will not really hold up in a court.

Anyone who does not help a person whom he has injured or a person who is
person in imminent danger of death, although he or she could be expected to
could reasonably be expected to do so under the circumstances,

whoever prevents others from rendering emergency assistance, or obstructs them in doing so,

is liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding three years or to a monetary penalty.

(StGB, Art. 128, Failure to render emergency assistance)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:48
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Quote:
View Post
Yes. I should think that pretending you didn't notice will not really hold up in a court.

Anyone who does not help a person whom he has injured or a person who is person in imminent danger of death, although he or she could be expected to could reasonably be expected to do so under the circumstances, whoever prevents others from rendering emergency assistance, or obstructs them in doing so, is liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding three years or to a monetary penalty.

(StGB, Art. 128, Failure to render emergency assistance)
That law applies to helping still living people. What kind of help a person can give to the dead?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24.06.2021, 11:49
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,769
Groaned at 522 Times in 414 Posts
Thanked 23,266 Times in 9,400 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Quote:
View Post
That law applies to helping still living people. What kind of help a person can give to the dead?
Only a doctor can officially decide if a person is dead.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24.06.2021, 12:00
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,718
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,497 Times in 2,055 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

The article says the video shows him "sitting motionless" so I'm not sure why anyone would necessarily notice there was something wrong with someone who looked like they were sleeping on the tram, particularly now with everyone wearing masks.

If that was the case then somebody would be waking me up on over half of my train journeys to check I'm alive.

But the driver should obviously have realised something, that must be several full circuits for that tram route.
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 24.06.2021, 12:03
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 2,499
Groaned at 50 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 3,377 Times in 1,628 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Quote:
View Post
Yes. I should think that pretending you didn't notice will not really hold up in a court.

Anyone who does not help a person whom he has injured or a person who is
person in imminent danger of death, although he or she could be expected to
could reasonably be expected to do so under the circumstances,

whoever prevents others from rendering emergency assistance, or obstructs them in doing so,

is liable to a custodial sentence not exceeding three years or to a monetary penalty.

(StGB, Art. 128, Failure to render emergency assistance)
I think it almost certainly would. Most people would presume he was asleep - hardly an uncommon occurrence. It's rather surprising he stayed in his seat if stone cold dead. Obviously if he slumped to the floor then obviously the situation is very different.

In any case the person was dead, not in imminent danger of death. You'd need to prove the later.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 24.06.2021, 12:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,274
Groaned at 294 Times in 223 Posts
Thanked 18,942 Times in 6,604 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Quote:
View Post
I thought Switzerland had a "Good samaritan" law - in that you are breaking the law if you do not go to the aid of someone in need.
(Why a civilised country needs such a law is another question entirely)
That's like the final Seinfeld episode.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 24.06.2021, 12:06
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Quote:
View Post
Only a doctor can officially decide if a person is dead.
Well, I guess I should wake up every sleeping person on public transport and ask if they're fine. Tell that there's an obligation to help in the laws and only a doctor can certify death. Totally normal and polite behavior. I'm sure I'll get a lot of kind words. Specially from elder people.

Indeed.......if I were 15 and riding the tram with my friends, this would be a great trolling to sleeping adults. Good thing I'm not 15 anymore.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 24.06.2021, 12:10
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,050
Groaned at 225 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 21,528 Times in 8,827 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Quote:
View Post
The article says the video shows him "sitting motionless" so I'm not sure why anyone would necessarily notice there was something wrong with someone who looked like they were sleeping on the tram, particularly now with everyone wearing masks.

If that was the case then somebody would be waking me up on over half of my train journeys to check I'm alive.

But the driver should obviously have realised something, that must be several full circuits for that tram route.
That’s what I why thinking.

People are getting on and off trams all the time so it’s not as though the same people were sitting with him for the whole six hours.
If he was sitting near a window they probably thought he was asleep and went about their day as normal.

The driver should have noticed though, although I don’t suppose it was the same one all the time either.

You’d have thought his workmates might have been concerned when he didn’t turn up for work. Maybe if they’d phoned his mobile number (assuming he had one) it might have alerted people on the tram to his unresponsiveness.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 24.06.2021, 12:14
Bossa Nova's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 188
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 449 Times in 125 Posts
Bossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Am I the only person here who wakes sleeping train passengers to make sure they aren't going to miss their stop? It's not something I've encountered often, but I always figure that since missing one's stop can cause someone to potentially end up hours behind schedule (if e.g. they are going to miss a connection that only runs every few hours) it's better to be safe than sorry. No one has ever been upset with me for waking them, they usually say thanks for my concern. And more than once my waking them caused the person to get off at the right stop whereas they otherwise might have slept through it.

(Well, there was that one time that the person I woke decided to completely hit on me afterwards to the point where I relocated to another part of the carriage, but otherwise I've had no bad experiences.)

I'm fairly certain that if I was disembarking at a terminus I'd definitely try and wake a passenger who seemed to be asleep, even if there was a concern they might be under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

Last edited by Bossa Nova; 24.06.2021 at 12:36.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Bossa Nova for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 24.06.2021, 12:15
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,572
Groaned at 284 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 24,693 Times in 10,434 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Dead body on Zurich tram...

Quote:
View Post
Well, I guess I should wake up every sleeping person on public transport and ask if they're fine. Tell that there's an obligation to help in the laws and only a doctor can certify death. Totally normal and polite behavior. I'm sure I'll get a lot of kind words. Specially from elder people.

Indeed.......if I were 15 and riding the tram with my friends, this would be a great trolling to sleeping adults. Good thing I'm not 15 anymore.
I have a good friend who for some reason people are always asking if he needs assistance . He doesn’t and can cope perfectly well by himself . But his facial muscles sort of tend to slip in a way that if you don’t know him you might think he has special needs . It happens especially when he is relaxed.

I think it must annoy him, but it’s still nice of people to offer help and he always thanks them and treats them politely .
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New tram line from Basel to Marktkauf (number 8 tram) nivor Transportation/driving 11 03.08.2014 13:02
E Tram / Cargo Tram (Zurich) lucy_sg Other/general 16 17.02.2012 21:24
Dead body at Glattpark Craig Swiss politics/news 0 20.11.2011 21:16
How to dispose of a dead body? PlantHead General off-topic 102 18.09.2010 12:02
Dead body found in my garden!!!!! Swiss Cheddar Daily life 6 30.07.2008 11:55


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0