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  #81  
Old 20.08.2021, 19:32
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Good idea. Same should apply to smokers…
Probably would help with the hypocrisy.

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  #82  
Old 20.08.2021, 20:05
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Good idea. Same should apply to smokers…
And skiers
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  #83  
Old 20.08.2021, 20:25
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Can you be fired in Switzerland if you refuse the Covid-19 vaccine?

There has been a lot of talk lately about privileges that Swiss authorities could grant to those who have had their coronavirus shots. But what if you choose not to be vaccinated?
Central to the return of some degree of normality in Switzerland is the introduction of a Covid-19 certificate, which provides certain privileges for vaccinated people, along with those who have recovered from the virus.

READ MORE: What will Switzerland’s Covid-19 pass allow you to do?

While the government has frequently reiterated that the vaccine is and will remain voluntary, the introduction of the Covid certificate has meant that certain industries will require their customers and clients to show a valid certificate – which of course means that staff will also need to possess the certificate.

For instance, nightclubs will be allowed to reopen but will require a Covid certificate from June 26th – meaning of course that staff will also need said certificate, to ensure everyone is immune to the virus.

But what could happen if you don’t want to get the shot — can your employer fire you?

If you work for a private company, employers “can make a distinction between vaccinated and non-vaccinated employees, especially for those who pose a security risk through frequent contact with other people”, Daniella Lützelschwab, a representative of an employers’ association, said to Swiss tabloid Blick.

Lützelschwab added that a company could decide to transfer unvaccinated employees to another location, where they are not in contact with other workers.

However, if relocation is not possible, the employer “must give an employee a deadline within which they should get vaccinated”.

If he or she still refuses, the company can dismiss them, on the grounds that they don’t support the employer in implementing health protection measures in the workplace.

“That is why I consider advantages for people who have been vaccinated to be permissible”, ”said Nicole Vögeli Galli, lecturer at the Zurich University of Applied Sciences.

This also applies to people who have been working from home but will soon return to the workplace, as the Federal Council has dropped the requirement to work from home from June 26th.

Whether or not you will be able to go back to your office also depends on your vaccination status.

“If the vaccination is necessary in the context of health protection, non-vaccinated people are not allowed to return,” Vögeli Galli said.

https://www.thelocal.ch/20210225/can...id-19-vaccine/
Legal minefield. Wont happen !!

Just off to of my head….
First thing would be employees agreeing to the vaccine if the company guarantees Zero serious or short or long term side effects. This they can’t wont do. Legal battles would ensue.
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  #84  
Old 20.08.2021, 20:43
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Zero[/B] serious or short or long term side effects. This they can’t wont do. Legal battles would ensue.
No, first thing would be a walkout by the intelligent staff who had vaxed.

Tom
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  #85  
Old 20.08.2021, 22:04
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Legal minefield. Wont happen !!

Just off to of my head….
First thing would be employees agreeing to the vaccine if the company guarantees Zero serious or short or long term side effects. This they can’t wont do. Legal battles would ensue.
Analyzing the long term side effects will take years. All vaccines are in phase 3 clinical trials till 12.2023 - reference here.

Alcohol and tobacco kill 575 000 Americans each year - reference here and here. Both of them are banned in office environment but haven't been banned by most Western governments.
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  #86  
Old 20.08.2021, 22:08
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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All my "fear" does is keep others safe and require a minor behaviour adjustment for everyone. Your narcissistic individualism will contribute to further deaths and more potent variants. I deserve to be safe at work more than covidiots deserve to be comfortable.
So sad that people still believe this after all we know about Covid, how it spreads and the effectiveness of the vaccines. Who are you going to blame when almost everyone who can be vaccinated is vaccinated, mask mandates remain are in place, yet people continue to die in their thousands every year due to Covid?
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  #87  
Old 20.08.2021, 22:45
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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I am a strong proponent for elderly / risk people getting vaccinated.
Interestingly enough, vaccinating the elderly or immunodeficient is often not the most effective strategy for preventing the diseases covered by the vaccines. The problem is that the immune systems of the elderly are much weaker than those of younger people, meaning that they mount a weaker response to an immune challenge in the form of a vaccine or a disease. Consequently, it is often more effective to vaccinate around such people to prevent their exposure to the diseases. Doctors, nurses, staff at nursing homes, children, grandchildren, grocery delivery people, etc. can all e.g. get the flu jab to do their part to protect the vulnerable. It is this community aspect which makes public health measures special and different from health measures.
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  #88  
Old 20.08.2021, 22:59
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Legal minefield. Wont happen !!

Just off to of my head….
First thing would be employees agreeing to the vaccine if the company guarantees Zero serious or short or long term side effects. This they can’t wont do. Legal battles would ensue.
Nothing in life is without risk. Even getting out of bed in the morning has some associated risk with it. Instead of speaking about in binary terms of zero, none, all, etc.; it is usually more realistic to discuss risk in terms of what would be an unacceptable increase or acceptable decrease in risk as the result of some intervention. Is a 1:10,000 increase in baseline acceptable? How about 1:1,000,000?

After all, the statistically riskiest thing many people did today was get into a car and drive somewhere, a risk most people didn't even perceive as they took it on. (Automobile accidents kill about 40,000 people in the US each year on a background population of 350 million, an annual death rate of 1.1 per 10,000 people. I doubt Switzerland is much different.)
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  #89  
Old 20.08.2021, 23:12
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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After all, the statistically riskiest thing many people did today was get into a car and drive somewhere, a risk most people didn't even perceive as they took it on. (Automobile accidents kill about 40,000 people in the US each year on a background population of 350 million, an annual death rate of 1.1 per 10,000 people. I doubt Switzerland is much different.)
If the US were as risky as CH related to car accidents, there would be only about 8K deaths in 350 million people
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  #90  
Old 21.08.2021, 00:16
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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So sad that people still believe this after all we know about Covid, how it spreads and the effectiveness of the vaccines. Who are you going to blame when almost everyone who can be vaccinated is vaccinated, mask mandates remain are in place, yet people continue to die in their thousands every year due to Covid?
Unvaccinated people now make up the majority of hospitalised and deadly cases of Covid.
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  #91  
Old 21.08.2021, 01:15
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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No, first thing would be a walkout by the intelligent staff who had vaxed.

Tom
Snide insults aside…

If you really think that companies can enforce sacking people for not taking a vaccine then you are deluded…


Employee contracts to start.. No legal grounds to sack.
Employees with diabetes, autoimmune disease, anaphylaxis who shouldnt take the vaccine can be sacked?
Then you are ok if they ask you to get HIV,HPV or Flu vaccine or be sacked?
There would be so many law suits it would be meltdown.

Unreal.

A poster said “ smoking drinking… Both of them are banned in office environment”.. Ridiculous analogy ..
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  #92  
Old 21.08.2021, 01:49
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Unvaccinated people now make up the majority of hospitalised and deadly cases of Covid.
Yes the vaccine for >50yrs is saving many lives and no fatalities for vaccinated in over 50yrs old.. Fantastic results..


Monthly fatality totals for people with no previous medical conditions..

FEB
40-49 yrs ZERO
30-39 yrs ZERO
20-29 yrs ZERO
10-19yrs ZERO
0-10 yrs ZERO

MARCH
40-49 yrs 1
30-39 yrs ZERO
20-29 yrs ZERO
10-19yrs 1
0-10 yrs ZERO

APRIL
40-49 yrs ZERO
30-39 yrs ZERO
20-29 yrs ZERO
10-19yrs ZERO
0-10 yrs ZERO

MAY
40-49 yrs 2
30-39 yrs ZERO
20-29 yrs ZERO
10-19yrs ZERO
0-10 yrs ZERO

JUNE
40-49 yrs ZERO
30-39 yrs ZERO
20-29 yrs ZERO
10-19yrs ZERO
0-10 yrs ZERO

JULY
40-49 yrs 1
30-39 yrs 1
20-29 yrs ZERO
10-19yrs ZERO
0-10 yrs ZERO

AUGUST
40-49 yrs ZERO
30-39 yrs ZERO
20-29 yrs ZERO
10-19yrs ZERO
0-10 yrs ZERO


data from here

https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/overview

Under 50yrs demographic 1.8million vaxxd the rest unvaxxd….has no impact on fatalities for them either way.

Vaccine for over 50yrs has halted deaths for them and at risk groups so it is only the vaccine factor and nothing to do with unvaxxed.

I’d take it tomorrow if …
- I felt comfortable about risk of side effects and the data wasnt covered up.
- It was a one , off no talk of boosters or getting into annual jabs
- It helped others.. You have to protect yourself. Someone else taking or not is not a factor.
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  #93  
Old 21.08.2021, 01:52
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Nothing in life is without risk. Even getting out of bed in the morning has some associated risk with it. Instead of speaking about in binary terms of zero, none, all, etc.; it is usually more realistic to discuss risk in terms of what would be an unacceptable increase or acceptable decrease in risk as the result of some intervention. Is a 1:10,000 increase in baseline acceptable? How about 1:1,000,000?

After all, the statistically riskiest thing many people did today was get into a car and drive somewhere, a risk most people didn't even perceive as they took it on. (Automobile accidents kill about 40,000 people in the US each year on a background population of 350 million, an annual death rate of 1.1 per 10,000 people. I doubt Switzerland is much different.)
I agree, so what is the risk of a serious adverse reaction to the vaccine?
One peron in how many ?
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  #94  
Old 21.08.2021, 07:18
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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I agree, so what is the risk of a serious adverse reaction to the vaccine?
One peron in how many ?
It is essential to have a functional adverse event monitoring system in this context and currently that is not the case. In the first, post authorization the onus is on manufacturers to have Phase IV surveillance but this is not a requirement, only advised and with no active surveillance - only spontaneous reporting. Similarly, VAERS in the US is a spontaneous reporting system. Neither of these are robust enough.

Even anecdotally talking to those in healthcare systems both in US & CH, I can see very clearly there are massive gaps in surveillance which logically means it is like a needle in a haystack to identify & correlate long-term consequences from vaccine administration.

Generally, there is a lack of rigorous data from long-term trials on the safety of COVID-19 vaccines, there is an urgent need to strengthen post marketing surveillance of adverse event data, particularly in low- and middle-income countries. This will require the continuous monitoring of vaccinated patients for possible adverse reactions to COVID-19 vaccines but that simply has not been done and is unlikely to begin due to logistics and costs
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Old 21.08.2021, 09:33
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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It is essential to have a functional adverse event monitoring system in this context and currently that is not the case. In the first, post authorization the onus is on manufacturers to have Phase IV surveillance but this is not a requirement, only advised and with no active surveillance - only spontaneous reporting. Similarly, VAERS in the US is a spontaneous reporting system. Neither of these are robust enough.

Even anecdotally talking to those in healthcare systems both in US & CH, I can see very clearly there are massive gaps in surveillance which logically means it is like a needle in a haystack to identify & correlate long-term consequences from vaccine administration.

Generally, there is a lack of rigorous data from long-term trials on the safety of COVID-19 vaccines, there is an urgent need to strengthen post marketing surveillance of adverse event data, particularly in low- and middle-income countries. This will require the continuous monitoring of vaccinated patients for possible adverse reactions to COVID-19 vaccines but that simply has not been done and is unlikely to begin due to logistics and costs
That's what phase 3 trials with c. 30,000 participants are there for.
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Old 21.08.2021, 12:45
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

OK... can't sack staff who are not vaxed...

Enter the new law for restaurants where the three G's come into force.

So a Restaurant has a choice, to impliment the law, or close.

Implimenting the law is only possible when all the staff have to be the same as the Guests. That means Vaxed or tested etc. If Staff don't accept this, the only course is Tuti bi all, or close!!!

So.. where's all the leagalities then for the Wirt?

This is comming Efers, look at Kanton St.Galen, they're considering this law!

A new lockdown is not finacialy feasable, so the Government will bring any laws to keep all open!

The leagal argument dosn't hold weight in this senario

Wodg y'all think? eh?

as usual...

stay healthy, and have a Great weekend y'all

GREG
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Old 21.08.2021, 13:11
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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That's what phase 3 trials with c. 30,000 participants are there for.
Phase III trials have nothing to do with long-term safety sureillance
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  #98  
Old 21.08.2021, 13:22
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Unvaccinated people now make up the majority of hospitalised and deadly cases of Covid.

Too broad a claim - it reads like the headline from a red top. We'd need to know more about the physiology of each, to know how significant, or not, any particular thing was to their illness or death.


We're also far from having enough data on COVID and the significance of any injection, to make such bold assertions.


You're looking for certainty, where none exists, because you want to bolster your own opinion. We're all guilty of that sometimes, of course, so you're not alone.
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Old 21.08.2021, 19:19
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?

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Phase III trials have nothing to do with long-term safety sureillance
Ok that is true in this case given the length of the trial. I was guilty of skimming your last post somewhat.

From my perspective the risk of an effect only being noticed much later for this particular treatment is near zero. It's a one (well two) off treatment of an inherently unstable molecule that can't reside in the body.
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Old 21.08.2021, 20:13
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Re: Vaccination required for office entry?



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