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  #41  
Old 08.08.2021, 14:51
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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The apprenticeship involves economics, German, English, social studies, math, accounting, as well as retail. The kids leave school at 15/16 so a wider curriculum is still being offered to enhance their general learning and knowledge of the trade.

Ask me in two years what I think of the KV reform and you may get a different answer than the one I just gave you.
An ex-GF of my did the bookstore apprenticeship and later worked for Orell Füssli. One of the great perks was being able to buy (and even order) books at a considerable reduction - which I frequently got to benefit from as well. There must be something that job that attracts me apparently, as my present OH also did the same apprenticeship but never got to work in a bookstore. She went to work for a publisher instead (which shows how broad the training is).

And now that I think of it my very first ever GF in Switzerland was doing her bookstore apprenticship when we met. So quite definitely a pattern.
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  #42  
Old 08.08.2021, 15:01
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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That's not true unfortunately.

My kitchen got redone recently by what seems to be a reputable company from CH 6964.

Average job, doors do not line up, had to call to fix leaking plumbing next day, some stuff not completed as they realized they are missing materials.

It's too early to say ofc, but I don't see anything spectacular in Switzerland craftsmanship so far. It's at about the same level as Polish builders or Ukrainian plumbers in the UK.
No one is perfect
but did you enquire in which country the employees of the reputable company apprenticed?
Can’t comment on Polish/Ukrainian builders in the UK. Conventional wisdom seems to be most Brits couldn’t be bothered anymore and EE craftsmen aren’t that keen after Brexit either.
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  #43  
Old 08.08.2021, 15:05
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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No one is perfect
but did you enquire in which country the employees of the reputable company apprenticed?
Can’t comment on Polish/Ukrainian builders in the UK. Conventional wisdom seems to be most Brits couldn’t be bothered anymore and EE craftsmen aren’t that keen after Brexit either.
I did not. The job was ordered by a landlord, so I didn't really get involved, just observed how they did the work and all the issues that remained.

EE craftsmen is deffo an issue now in the UK, same as for workers in Horeca. Many owners of restaurants complain that they can't hire good work force since Brexit/Covid. Lots left, locals do not want to work or average quality.
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  #44  
Old 08.08.2021, 16:08
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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As a high-immigration country our problem is the ignorant immigrants, some don't even know the country's name.
So true, I hear “Swiss " being used constantly instead of Switzerland !!! Most of them speak reasonably good English…
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  #45  
Old 08.08.2021, 17:34
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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If it is not a trolling (although it feel and smells like trolling), then here is an answer:

0. The premise of this question is wrong by itself, since it is a blatant generalization only targeted to offend by generating or supporting a negative stereotype. And by itself this questions shows lack of educational results or absences of thereof at a source, since a person generates not just a baseless or meaningless statement, but actually the one, which can easily be proven wrong.

1. Compared to Germany, any country would be worse by the UNDP Education Index, since Germany takes its first place according to the latest (2019) ranking. But also:
- Switzerland ranks very high as well. Higher than France, Spain, Austria, Luxembourg, Eastern European countries and Russia, which places it slightly above the median in European region.
- this index considers the amount of education, not its quality. The quality can hardly be adequately quantified and compared, especially for adults: you may force kids to take some tests due to their dependent status, but most adults won't follow such requests, and it's not that many police states around the globe.

2. By the percentage of tertiary education [since the topic is about the "level of education|], Switzerland is way above the average in Europe. And don't even look, where the Germany is in the same chart.
It doesn't say anything about the quality of such education, but it certainly shows, that people are well educated here and the country itself is far from being the worst in Europe for that matter.
Wow didn't know doropfiz has an alt.
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  #46  
Old 08.08.2021, 18:01
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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So true, I hear “Swiss " being used constantly instead of Switzerland !!! Most of them speak reasonably good English…
In what country is English spoken? British Airways?
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  #47  
Old 08.08.2021, 22:13
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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And now that I think of it my very first ever GF in Switzerland was doing her bookstore apprenticship when we met. So quite definitely a pattern.
You prefer bookworms?

Let me rephrase so I conform with PC:
You prefer bibliophile girls?
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  #48  
Old 08.08.2021, 22:19
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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You prefer bookworms?

Let me rephrase so I conform with PC:
You prefer bibliophile girls?
Not just bibliophile but bibliopolic.

Maybe that makes me a bibliopolicophile.
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  #49  
Old 08.08.2021, 23:03
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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That's not true unfortunately.

My kitchen got redone recently by what seems to be a reputable company from CH 6964.

Average job, doors do not line up, had to call to fix leaking plumbing next day, some stuff not completed as they realized they are missing materials.

It's too early to say ofc, but I don't see anything spectacular in Switzerland craftsmanship so far. It's at about the same level as Polish builders or Ukrainian plumbers in the UK.
I'm curious, how far ahead did you book them to do the work?
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  #50  
Old 09.08.2021, 01:38
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

the professionalised manual workforce in CH is frustrating and a challenge for those who don’t necessarily have “that” piece of paper, but may very well have worked in eg book stores, fruit/veg shops, restaurants/cafés, done translation (in my case a lot) to earn the money to pursue a Bachelor’s/Masters/PhD. Experience seems to always count second to the CH piece of paper
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  #51  
Old 09.08.2021, 02:26
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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the professionalised manual workforce in CH is frustrating and a challenge for those who don’t necessarily have “that” piece of paper, but may very well have worked in eg book stores, fruit/veg shops, restaurants/cafés, done translation (in my case a lot) to earn the money to pursue a Bachelor’s/Masters/PhD. Experience seems to always count second to the CH piece of paper
How is that any different anywhere, and everywhere?

Assuming the Swedes are unfamiliar with the apprenticeship system, how far does an apprenticed Swiss carpenter without experience get in Stockholm?

And what use is a PhD on the Inuit's language for someone looking for a welding job anywhere in the developed world?
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  #52  
Old 09.08.2021, 10:43
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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the professionalised manual workforce in CH is frustrating and a challenge for those who don’t necessarily have “that” piece of paper, but may very well have worked in eg book stores, fruit/veg shops, restaurants/cafés, done translation (in my case a lot) to earn the money to pursue a Bachelor’s/Masters/PhD. Experience seems to always count second to the CH piece of paper
You can work in a book store without that diploma . But that doesn’t make you a book seller . Just as the guy who carries bricks all day isn’t a bricklayer . Or not every guy who works in a hospital is a surgeon .
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  #53  
Old 09.08.2021, 11:14
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

So the whinge of this thread has turned from, the Swiss are poorly educated, to the Swiss attach too much importance to education?
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  #54  
Old 09.08.2021, 11:31
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

Perception of "being educated" changes all the time: from having a piece of paper to knowing how to do something, from knowing data packs to knowing how/where to find them or how to use them, what is considered a skill or a competence.. On top, society has started to consider quiet introverts or those who don't brand themselves as odd or uneducated. A bunch of points of view on edu.

OP talked about some craftmanship, or service, so he probably meant it that way...I had some incredibly good service done and some incredibly bad, as is expected where people learn by doing and you sometimes get a stagier/trainee/apprentice/assistant to do the job. While system values the training opportunity, a customer becomes one of the educating part, the customer might not be used to it nor agree to that role.

Whether society values education is really hard to determine without saying for what purpose or what education actually represents.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 09.08.2021 at 12:02.
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  #55  
Old 09.08.2021, 12:48
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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I'm curious, how far ahead did you book them to do the work?
I didn't, my landlord did. I reckon few months in advance for sure, he basically waited for a tenant to show up to commence kitchen replacement. I know the name of the company who did the work...
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  #56  
Old 09.08.2021, 13:12
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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French: la Suisse
German: die Schweiz
Italian: la Svizzera
Romansh: la Svizra
FTFY.

Tom
Pedantic git.
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  #57  
Old 13.08.2021, 11:05
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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I didn't mean languages.

It's a not a troll question. I good friend of mine who lives in Germany said that. I'm just trying to understand if it's true and why
Oh, you are going to get some nice Comments to your Post.

As someone coming from Germany now, I do understand that Swiss Education considered to be higher than Germany. Don´t ask me how and why, but that is the "Talk" I always heard in Germany.

Personally, I saw and I think (and having some Teachers in the Family) that in any Country in any School it rises and fall on the Class Teacher.

About resources though - I think nothing can beat the Swiss Education resources in terms of Sports Facilities / In School Pools and so on.

It is then a personal flavour I guess for each individual to decide what is more important.

On a side note, I come from a Country where Education System is "poor" in Swiss Terms and definitely we have no Resources and usually 40 Kids in a Class (and always shortage of Classes due to high Birth rate, a lot of Foreigners working there and Budget that is diverted to Security. But guess what? My Country is the #1 Startup Nation with HUGE R&D Centres of Apple, Microsoft, FB, Nvidia and u name it.
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  #58  
Old 13.08.2021, 11:42
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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On a side note, I come from a Country where Education System is "poor" in Swiss Terms and definitely we have no Resources and usually 40 Kids in a Class (and always shortage of Classes due to high Birth rate, a lot of Foreigners working there and Budget that is diverted to Security. But guess what? My Country is the #1 Startup Nation with HUGE R&D Centres of Apple, Microsoft, FB, Nvidia and u name it.
Romania? I've heard there's a large expat community of Romanians in Seattle, Washington, many of whom are employed by Microsoft.
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Old 13.08.2021, 12:29
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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Romania? I've heard there's a large expat community of Romanians in Seattle, Washington, many of whom are employed by Microsoft.

His profile says Israel.

I didn't find it on top of this list (random first pick) but three places above Switzerland.
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Old 13.08.2021, 12:53
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Re: Level of education in Switzerland

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Romania? I've heard there's a large expat community of Romanians in Seattle, Washington, many of whom are employed by Microsoft.
Israel. Is there such a High Tech Scene in Romania?
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