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  #121  
Old 11.08.2021, 12:56
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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I'm with your dad, I print all my invoices off.

What annoys me most is slowly, but surely being pushed towards having to have a mobile phone, even though I have absolutely no need of one, just because more and more things require you to verify with an SMS message or some code sent to you on the damn thing. I was trying to log into the HMRC website the other week to do the accounts for our dormant UK company; guess what can only do that now with a mobile or tablet, neither of which I use/have. So what do I do now?

I get that it's the way the world is going, but I really wish they'd keep alternatives so those of us who don't have/want a mobile can still access things via a simple e-mail like before. Put a disclaimer in saying on our heads be it if something goes wrong, but at least give us other damn options people!
Totally agree. My credit card company shut down the online platform after moving it to a phone app. Now I have to use another app on my phone and transfer the statements to the desktop. Time for a new credit card.
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  #122  
Old 11.08.2021, 13:59
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

I think we tend to make a mental cut-off somewhere, of who we feel is "old", depending partly upon the old-age pension schemes which define "old" (= eligible for old-age or retirement benefits). Depending on the country, these newly-old can be between 60 and 70, perhaps even more.

Below them are those from, say, age 45 or 50, the almost-old, who don't feel old yet, apart from some disconcerting new aches, but who may be perceived as so from those younger than them.

I think the ages of one's own parents and grandparents influences one's inherent feeling of age, too. A 20-year-old grandson whose grandmother who is a mere 35 years older than him is probably more likely to see a 70 year-old as unfathomably ancient (his great-grandfather) than his classmate whose own parents are aged 60.

Ahead of the newly pensioned, there are the very old, aged 75 or 80 to 100, for whom the 60-year olds are still sprightly young folk, 15 or even 40 years younger than they.
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  #123  
Old 11.08.2021, 14:00
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

Other factors influencing whether or not an aging person can manage to keep abreast of technological advances, (can learn to use a smartphone or an ipad, can feel at home with mails, chats and video-calles, deal with QR-codes, can surf safely, watch youtube, avoid scams, book tickets and do e-banking) probably include the ranges of functional literacy, the educational background and the habit of learning, and also the extent to which technology was ever necessary in the former work setting of the young-old or the old-old. In addition, there are restraints placed by the limitations of physical health: needing to find one's glasses, fingers moving less precisely, rheumatic hands struggling to hold the device itself, and then to fiddle about plugging in the charger, or needing medication which may impair concentration, so on.

Having said that, I think there's a shift. Nursing homes are already feeling a difference, since one of first things those now considering entering as young-old say they want (or their children want it for them), is WiFi. The old-old, on the other hand, have much less of such need, once they're going into the home.

While they are living alone, however, they end up still needing services, but may not be able to command them, and those who can't become frustratingly dependent on the help of others... or they give up and don't get the services they need. A few years ago a retired neurologist told me that he'd decided to continue employing his secretary, part-time, because he was just too tired to learn all that would be needed, online, to run his life - all things he could formerly have achieved by snailmail or going to an enquiries desk.

If one lacks the connection to technology, or understanding it, whether from being too poor to own the devices, or being scholastically, physically and mentally unable (or even unwilling, just not choosing to, because other interests have priority) to do it... that has become a new handicap that wasn't there, before. During the past few years, I've had people - in Switzerland - aged 20, 40, 50, 70 and 85 asking me to look up a timetable for them, to print out something for them, or to correct a Word document, or write a mail, all of which they just did not know how to do. There are still huge gaps.
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  #124  
Old 11.08.2021, 15:39
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Totally agree. My credit card company shut down the online platform after moving it to a phone app. Now I have to use another app on my phone and transfer the statements to the desktop. Time for a new credit card.
What exactly do you do with the cc statements? Print them? File them? What do they tell you that you cannot see by checking on your phone?

I have no statements from my bank, credit cards or investments, except the end of the year statements for the tax declaration. I can see the up-to-date whenever I want, instantly on my phone...
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  #125  
Old 11.08.2021, 16:42
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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What exactly do you do with the cc statements? Print them? File them? What do they tell you that you cannot see by checking on your phone?

I have no statements from my bank, credit cards or investments, except the end of the year statements for the tax declaration. I can see the up-to-date whenever I want, instantly on my phone...
For me, it‘s just more paper to shred and recycle.
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  #126  
Old 11.08.2021, 18:07
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Had the joy of meeting my son's downstairs neighbour. A very old woman who loves to moan about everything. At length...

Hates change, hates interacting with people. Obviously finds the modern world so scary. Really really sad.

Noddy dog, sympathetic smiley mode adopted. It must be sad to be so miserable. And it's a vicious circle. You moan too much at everyone and no one wants to be with you any more. And then you sit alone in your apartment waiting to die.
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That is the definition of loneliness
There are a vast amount of them
We're going to give them box of chocolates for the inconveniecne. I feel desperately sorry for them. They're Belgian chocolates because I'm not nice.
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  #127  
Old 11.08.2021, 19:07
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

"You moan too much at everyone and no one wants to be with you any more. And then you sit alone in your apartment waiting to die".

Unfortunately they younger of my 2 brothers and his wife are like this. Bro retired at 59 and it's like they've just been sitting in God's waiting room ever since. SiL had colon cancer 10 years ago and I really thought it would give them a shake up so they'd enjoy travel, eating out etc. But no, they just sit there moaning about everything, everybody and their own lot, yet they own their apartment outright and have very comfortable pensions and savings to live on.

He's 11 years older than me at 71 and I sometimes can't believe the same guy was a 60s Mod who was mad on bands like The Who and the Stones. My eldest brother is 76 and says he gets depressed in his company, as does my 68 year old sister who just loves life.

An 80 year old friend of mines in London still works as a front of house art gallery manager on weekends and is a p/t theatre actor and an extra in films. There's no hope for some like my bro unfortunately
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  #128  
Old 11.08.2021, 19:14
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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For me, it‘s just more paper to shred and recycle.
I don't print stuff. Both for environmental reasons and to economize on storage space. But i save all monthly bank statements as pdfs on my computer.

You never know what might happen to the bank or credit-card website. Even banks go bust sometimes, or the website might just be temporarily down at the precise moment I need it. I wouldn't want that to be my sole record of past transactions.
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  #129  
Old 17.08.2021, 12:34
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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What exactly do you do with the cc statements? Print them? File them? What do they tell you that you cannot see by checking on your phone?

I have no statements from my bank, credit cards or investments, except the end of the year statements for the tax declaration. I can see the up-to-date whenever I want, instantly on my phone...
It's nice to check if your card data has been stolen and if you're getting cheated. Can and does happen. Just a pain in the ass to have to view it on a phone instead of document size on a normal monitor. Like to read things in a decent manner. And now its a pain in the ass to only be able to log in on a phone, download it only to the phone and then to figure out a way to transfer to my PC. Sorry! But for this dude it's a no. Another example of being forced to ridiculously adapt and expose oneself to the dangers of hacking attacks.
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  #130  
Old 17.08.2021, 12:50
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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It's nice to check if your card data has been stolen and if you're getting cheated. Can and does happen. Just a pain in the ass to have to view it on a phone instead of document size on a normal monitor. Like to read things in a decent manner. And now its a pain in the ass to only be able to log in on a phone, download it only to the phone and then to figure out a way to transfer to my PC. Sorry! But for this dude it's a no. Another example of being forced to ridiculously adapt and expose oneself to the dangers of hacking attacks.
What... you can't get your credit card statements and info online via the web? I have never heard of one that is phone only.
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  #131  
Old 17.08.2021, 12:51
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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If one lacks the connection to technology, or understanding it, whether from being too poor to own the devices, or being scholastically, physically and mentally unable (or even unwilling, just not choosing to, because other interests have priority) to do it... that has become a new handicap that wasn't there, before. During the past few years, I've had people - in Switzerland - aged 20, 40, 50, 70 and 85 asking me to look up a timetable for them, to print out something for them, or to correct a Word document, or write a mail, all of which they just did not know how to do. There are still huge gaps.
Indeed, it's not an age related issue. It's just numerical illiteracy. French sociologist coined the term illectronisme (illettrisme numérique) some years ago. As not knowing how to read the ABCD is a cause of exclusion, not being able to work with electronic devices is another source of exclusion from participating in society.

There's a video from RTS in French: https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/12005...en-suisse.html There are no stats from CH, but around Europe is 1 person out of 3 that has a problem. The irony here is that the young that spend all day long using the phone might be as incompetent as any 80 year old when something productive needs to be done.
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  #132  
Old 17.08.2021, 13:23
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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It's nice to check if your card data has been stolen and if you're getting cheated. Can and does happen. Just a pain in the ass to have to view it on a phone instead of document size on a normal monitor. Like to read things in a decent manner. And now its a pain in the ass to only be able to log in on a phone, download it only to the phone and then to figure out a way to transfer to my PC. Sorry! But for this dude it's a no. Another example of being forced to ridiculously adapt and expose oneself to the dangers of hacking attacks.
If you are worried about fraud, my Viseca Mastercard app pings me with the details of a purchase within seconds of it being used - even at a supermarket checkout in Australia. So, should there be any unauthorised spending, I know within seconds and don‘t have to wait to print out may monthly statement to see it…
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  #133  
Old 17.08.2021, 13:27
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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We're going to give them box of chocolates for the inconvenience. I feel desperately sorry for them. They're Belgian chocolates because I'm not nice.
The charm offensive worked. No moaning at all. She and her husband were overwhelmed. "It's just normal that we let you water the plants from our patio".
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  #134  
Old 17.08.2021, 14:55
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Indeed, it's not an age related issue. It's just numerical illiteracy. French sociologist coined the term illectronisme (illettrisme numérique) some years ago. As not knowing how to read the ABCD is a cause of exclusion, not being able to work with electronic devices is another source of exclusion from participating in society.

There's a video from RTS in French: https://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/12005...en-suisse.html There are no stats from CH, but around Europe is 1 person out of 3 that has a problem. The irony here is that the young that spend all day long using the phone might be as incompetent as any 80 year old when something productive needs to be done.
Thank you very much for putting it so clearly, and for the link to that video, which shows it in a nutshell.

For anyone wanting to help someone get help, here's the organisation to which the video refers, which provides courses for literacy in general, but also for computer literacy:
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  #135  
Old 17.08.2021, 15:33
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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What... you can't get your credit card statements and info online via the web? I have never heard of one that is phone only.
Yea! They dropped the web support recently.
https://www.swisscard.ch/en/private-...es/cardservice

So now its time to drop them.
Used to be the coop Supercard, but coop switched to another credit company. Little wonder.
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  #136  
Old 17.08.2021, 16:26
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Yea! They dropped the web support recently.
https://www.swisscard.ch/en/private-...es/cardservice

So now its time to drop them.
Used to be the coop Supercard, but coop switched to another credit company. Little wonder.
Maybe it's time to stop using Mickey Mouse companies and use an established financial institution with a decent infrastructure.
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  #137  
Old 17.08.2021, 20:41
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Yea! They dropped the web support recently.
https://www.swisscard.ch/en/private-...es/cardservice

So now its time to drop them.
Used to be the coop Supercard, but coop switched to another credit company. Little wonder.
use eBill instead of LSV, you have all your invoices in PDF on your ebanking and you can check before approving the payment. The app is not meant for that imho.
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  #138  
Old 18.08.2021, 07:43
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Maybe it's time to stop using Mickey Mouse companies and use an established financial institution with a decent infrastructure.
Said a UBS spokesman.
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  #139  
Old 20.08.2021, 13:13
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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The charm offensive worked. No moaning at all. She and her husband were overwhelmed. "It's just normal that we let you water the plants from our patio".
Only it turns out they don't eat chocolates. So they gave them to my son and daughter-in-law. Who brought them round last night.
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Old 20.08.2021, 13:38
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Re: Will you still love me when I am old? — Today everywhere, is so unfair to the eld

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Yea! They dropped the web support recently.
https://www.swisscard.ch/en/private-...es/cardservice

So now its time to drop them.
Used to be the coop Supercard, but coop switched to another credit company. Little wonder.
You can either move with the times or stick your ground and sink further and further into the past.

My cards are going one by one into app only.
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